Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[LAKings88]

I still think there are just too many players. Clearing some clutter might help with forming a consistent third line.

 

[crassbonanza]

I love how the Mike Richards trade keeps being brought up without taking into consideration the obvious..
We had a 24YO Kopi and a 22YO Drew.. which two of our prospects equals those two? You make that type of trade when you know what Byfield, Turcotte, Clarke, Kaliyev.. etc are or know enough., I swear this is the exact same shit everyone on here talked about not wanting to happen but now that we’re playoff contenders which a few of you didn’t think would happen.. you want to trade some of our best prospects for what?? Seriously, for f***en what?? A second round exit? If that!
The team is progressing much better and quicker than anticipated, we need to stay the course.. Do we need an upgrade at LHD, yes.. but a Soucy or Edler type of vet does it, no need to go full LA Lakers on this..

My main issue is that we are progressing on the backs of aging talent. Of the top 6 scorers on the Kings only Kempe is under 28, trading for Arrvy and signing Danault to a long term deal seems to signal that the team expects to compete with those veterans. Those veterans are not likely to improve significantly and if you look at league wide trends it's fair to assume they will decline. None of the prospects so far have shown the ability to take over at this juncture so we are kind of in a weird position of being a bubble team now and hoping that the prospects can out develop the decline of the veterans. Which is why people are suggesting that the Kings acquire some young established young talent to supplement the current veteran core. Before we made the moves we did this offseason I was in favor of playing the prospects more minutes and only making a move if a potential elite talent was available. Now that we have gone down this path I think the Kings are going to need to make a move.

 

[Trash Panda]

I love how the Mike Richards trade keeps being brought up without taking into consideration the obvious..
We had a 24YO Kopi and a 22YO Drew.. which two of our prospects equals those two? You make that type of trade when you know what Byfield, Turcotte, Clarke, Kaliyev.. etc are or know enough., I swear this is the exact same shit everyone on here talked about not wanting to happen but now that we’re playoff contenders which a few of you didn’t think would happen.. you want to trade some of our best prospects for what?? Seriously, for f***en what?? A second round exit? If that!
The team is progressing much better and quicker than anticipated, we need to stay the course.. Do we need an upgrade at LHD, yes.. but a Soucy or Edler type of vet does it, no need to go full LA Lakers on this..

We will never know which one of our lesser prospects could ever be a Doughty or Kopitar of that age, so long as we keep hiding them behind those same men in their 30’s. The elite talent will almost always rise, but the lesser levels of pedigree will always need some nurture.

Have to pick between long term asset maturation, or short term feel good. Having both is a great sign, but it has to come organically as you develop youth, not while clinging to the glory days of aging stars.

 

[kings11]

My main issue is that we are progressing on the backs of aging talent. Of the top 6 scorers on the Kings only Kempe is under 28, trading for Arrvy and signing Danault to a long term deal seems to signal that the team expects to compete with those veterans. Those veterans are not likely to improve significantly and if you look at league wide trends it's fair to assume they will decline. None of the prospects so far have shown the ability to take over at this juncture so we are kind of in a weird position of being a bubble team now and hoping that the prospects can out develop the decline of the veterans. Which is why people are suggesting that the Kings acquire some young established young talent to supplement the current veteran core. Before we made the moves we did this offseason I was in favor of playing the prospects more minutes and only making a move if a potential elite talent was available. Now that we have gone down this path I think the Kings are going to need to make a move.

Yes, yes and yes… you’re right on a lot of things.. they absolutely expect to be playoff bound, it services a few purposes..
The Kings have finished tanking and can now assess what they have, what they need and what they want…
The Kids are going to be experiencing playoff hockey at a really early point in their careers which can only benefit their development regardless of how much PT they get.. getting PO experience will be huge for the fantastic four…
Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi and Kaliyev
Ardvisson is a stopgap that cost nothing more than extra picks.. which is how you should build up depth, if he keeps up his play he’ll be worth a 1st next season or be part of a big trade package..
things are looking pretty f***en awesome if you’re a Kings fan and it’ll only get better.. just be patient guys, it’ll be worth it!

 

[kings11]

Delete

 

[kingsfan]

I love how the Mike Richards trade keeps being brought up without taking into consideration the obvious..
We had a 24YO Kopi and a 22YO Drew.. which two of our prospects equals those two? You make that type of trade when you know what Byfield, Turcotte, Clarke, Kaliyev.. etc are or know enough., I swear this is the exact same shit everyone on here talked about not wanting to happen but now that we’re playoff contenders which a few of you didn’t think would happen.. you want to trade some of our best prospects for what?? Seriously, for f***en what?? A second round exit? If that!
The team is progressing much better and quicker than anticipated, we need to stay the course.. Do we need an upgrade at LHD, yes.. but a Soucy or Edler type of vet does it, no need to go full LA Lakers on this..

If the trade would only be for this year, you'd likely be right. But it wouldn't be. Chychrun is 24 and signed for several more seasons, he'd be around into when ou cup window should be and, assuming we can extend him which there's nothing to suggest we wouldn't, beyond that.

 

[kings11]

We will never know which one of our lesser prospects could ever be a Doughty or Kopitar of that age, so long as we keep hiding them behind those same men in their 30’s. The elite talent will almost always rise, but the lesser levels of pedigree will always need some nurture.

Have to pick between long term asset maturation, or short term feel good. Having both is a great sign, but it has to come organically as you develop youth, not while clinging to the glory days of aging stars.

They don’t need to be, the beauty of what the Kings have accumulated is depth, talent, skill, grit, leadership.. etc
Byfield
Clarke
Turcotte
Kaliyev
Vilardi
Faber
Are the core moving forward and they’ve been afforded a gradual transition to the NHL by having a Kopitar and Doughty.
I think you’re already seeing who’ll be trade bait based on the call ups.. guys like JAD, Madden, Andersson, Grundstrom, Strand have all been passed over.. kids like Spence and Grans probably don’t have a future on the team either… maybe even Durzi if Clarke and Faber continue on their development paths

 

[kings11]

If the trade would only be for this year, you'd likely be right. But it wouldn't be. Chychrun is 24 and signed for several more seasons, he'd be around into when ou cup window should be and, assuming we can extend him which there's nothing to suggest we wouldn't, beyond that.

You make that type of trade when that window is opening not before.. when Byfield and Co emerge.. if not, you’re just wasting assets to please the aging core

 

[funky]

All the Kings Men Podcast - Official LA Kings Podcast

Thanks for this interview @All The Kings Men

Was a bit surprised about Fox’s comments on Turcotte being a solid 3rd line center at the #5 overall spot.

I really enjoyed this episode. Jim wasn’t pulling punches.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

They don’t need to be, the beauty of what the Kings have accumulated is depth, talent, skill, grit, leadership.. etc
Bguys like JAD, Madden, Andersson, Grundstrom, Strand have all been passed over.. kids like Spence and Grans probably don’t have a future on the team either… maybe even Durzi if Clarke and Faber continue on their development paths

But...Durzi is 'still developing' and may only be at about 65% of what he can and may be. Look how far he's come in 2 years? I say he keeps on the same trajectory for 2 more years. Will be seeing him cut in and dangle more and more and be on NHL highlight reel goals and plays....50 points not out of the question, while playing pretty solid D. He may have a ceiling no one saw coming.

 

[crassbonanza]

Yes, yes and yes… you’re right on a lot of things.. they absolutely expect to be playoff bound, it services a few purposes..
The Kings have finished tanking and can now assess what they have, what they need and what they want…
The Kids are going to be experiencing playoff hockey at a really early point in their careers which can only benefit their development regardless of how much PT they get.. getting PO experience will be huge for the fantastic four…
Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi and Kaliyev
Ardvisson is a stopgap that cost nothing more than extra picks.. which is how you should build up depth, if he keeps up his play he’ll be worth a 1st next season or be part of a big trade package..
things are looking pretty f***en awesome if you’re a Kings fan and it’ll only get better.. just be patient guys, it’ll be worth it!

I am concerned with BLuc's ability to assess the correct timing of moves. First they expected to contend, the firing of Dean/Sutter did have a temporary bump, but the team declined rapidly after. Rather than recognize the downfall Blake tried salvaging until the team's play forced his hand; the Pearson, WD, Kovalchuk moves all seemed to be panic moves. Leaving the rebuild at this juncture is concerning to me because I am forced to trust their assessment again. None of the prospects have turned the corner as of yet(excepting maybe Bjornfot) and they haven't really been given the opportunity to show that they have. The Kings are still a bubble team even with the additions made, so any decline of the veterans can cement the team in the blackhole. Arrvy cost two second round picks, which could have been used as assets to acquire the kind of young 20's player people are clamoring for. Those weren't just nothing more than a couple picks, those are high value assets, potentially higher value than some of the prospects you are concerned about trading. Hell, one of those picks could have been the difference in the Kings trading up for Wallstedt, apparently the Oilers didn't want to move as far down as 49, would Kenny have moved down to 40? Danault is playing great now, but he is still a half point per game player who is signed until he is 36. I know he is a defensive stud so the points do not matter as much, but again we should expect a decline. As for goalies, Quick has been fantastic, but he is 36 and he has injury issues. Behind him is Petersen who struggled this season and he is 27, Parik and Ingham are both having trouble in the ECHL, so the goalie pipeline is not looking fantastic currently.

The long story short is that with the Kings moves this offseason I believe the Kings should acquire a young proven player using the assets they currently have. I do not believe this is a contender currently and I do not believe the prospects will develop soon enough to take over as guys like Quick, RV, Danault, Kopi, Dewey begin declining. If we are trying to compete now, we should have some bridge players in their young 20's who could still be a part of the team when Byfield, Turk and Clarke put it together.

 

[All The Kings Men]

 

[Statto]

Rather than recognize the downfall Blake tried salvaging until the team's play forced his hand

Or maybe he was given a brief to see if he could get one more run out of the team first, before getting the green light to rebuild. The truth is we don’t know but given DL wasn’t given the OK to go full rebuild on day 1, it’s not a stretch to at least consider that Blake was in a similar position.

 

[kingsfan28]

[QUOTE="Telos, post: 182475740, member: 71911

The bottom line is if the Kings are going to make a deal, they have the assets to acquire a superstar on a long-term contract. I question if Chychrun fits the bill.
[/QUOTE]

Agree.

You include [ if you stupid enough] Clarke in a deal for a well establish, point producing dman like Fox/Makar or in a package deal for McDavid. I don't think they'd move him for that either.
Chychrun is so over priced and the guys being thrown in to get him are ridiculous. I don't think he's worth that. A lotto protected 1st, a top level prospect and a mid tier prospect should get it done. An Eichel type haul is just fantasy land stuff.

 

[kingsfan28]

But...Durzi is 'still developing' and may only be at about 65% of what he can and may be. Look how far he's come in 2 years? I say he keeps on the same trajectory for 2 more years. Will be seeing him cut in and dangle more and more and be on NHL highlight reel goals and plays....50 points not out of the question, while playing pretty solid D. He may have a ceiling no one saw coming.

Look how far he's come from games 1-4 and now. He 's learning on the job and doing well. The errors he's made are being corrected and he's shown a willing to learn. He may he the best passer on the team and shown a willingness to go after the best players on the ice. He's got a way to go, but as you said, no one saw this coming.

 

[kinghock]

If the trade would only be for this year, you'd likely be right. But it wouldn't be. Chychrun is 24 and signed for several more seasons, he'd be around into when ou cup window should be and, assuming we can extend him which there's nothing to suggest we wouldn't, beyond that.

To me Chychrun is upgraded version of Jake Muzzin and not elite talent.
He can shoot very well, but not very good defensively.
Clarke conversely has incredible hockey IQ and creativity.
I do not believe we need Chychrun if price is high.

 

[cyclones22]

Look how far he's come from games 1-4 and now. He 's learning on the job and doing well. The errors he's made are being corrected and he's shown a willing to learn. He may he the best passer on the team and shown a willingness to go after the best players on the ice. He's got a way to go, but as you said, no one saw this coming.

It seems near the mid-point of last season with the Reign he just started taking off and it's just been upward ever since.

 

[kingsfan]

You make that type of trade when that window is opening not before.. when Byfield and Co emerge.. if not, you’re just wasting assets to please the aging core

Agree to disagree. AT his current age he'll be there right through the whole window and be a very productive part of the core. You don't have to wait for those guys to emerge, you can have the building blocks in place as they do.

 

[RaymondReddington]

No...you were calling for Kaliyev to play 5 minutes of a 2 minute power play....slightly different.

I believe the thrust of my post was for the Kings PP to use Kaliyev a la Ovechkin--center the PP around feeding his elite shot.
And yes including for the full 2 minutes if necessary. I came to this conclusion after watching how the Caps used Ovie on the PP.
Kaliyev is the closest thing to that skillset that the Kings have ever had.

You however focused on:
(1) The 2 minutes suggestion
(2) The straw man assertion I called him Ovie

You never acknowledged the main point, which you now post about.
I am merely remarking on your desire to slander others and ignore their coherent (and in this case agreed upon) positions.

 

[Herby]

That was actually a really good listen for my morning out fishing. Much like with Heyward it seems that in the heat of the moment in the games the homerism just consumes both these guys, but when they are able to be in an atmosphere like this their knowledge of the game really comes out. Wish we saw more of this from Jim on the broadcasts.

Some thoughts.

- On Chychrun it depends on the cost. If you can get him for Turcotte, Vilardi and this years 1st I think you do it every single time. The problem is that I believe both these guys have less value than is perceived on this board, and in fact that most valuable asset going would be this years first, is that enough to get Arizona to trade him here? Atleast they aren't in our divison anymore, so that helps. Also JC did play two playoff rounds in the bubble a couple of years ago, so its not as if he has always been on awful teams. He is young enough where he can be a big part in the Byfield, Clarke, Kaliyev era and can also help the team this season on the PP and generating offense from the blue line. There are risks but lots of potential reward too.

- I hate when people bring up Covid as an excuse for things going wrong (this is not just a point on the Kings, its used as an excuse by fans of many teams in many sports) Covid is not an LA Kings exclusive issue, every team in the league has dealt with Covid.

- Loved what he said about QB and how the next step now is to learn how to win battles at the NHL level and learn from players like Kopitar and Danault and be put into situations where he can learn and succeed (and take his lumps as well). It should have happened last year but we can't go back and change the poor decision to not have him up. People think there is some secret recipe for developing players like this, there isn't, there is a reason historically almost every team taking a player this high puts them in the NHL. If QB ends up back in the AHL again it's yet another development mistake by the Kings in handling this player. There is absolutely nothing he has to gain from playing down there, nothing at all.

- On Turcotte, ofcourse I am going to agree with Jim because he is saying what I have been saying since I saw him play. All the intangibles are great, but we are three seasons in and we are complimenting board battles and face washing people after a whistle from a player the Kings took #5 overall. Jim said that the Kings projected him as a #3 center, which if true is just an inexcusable use of draft capital. It's trying to get cute at the draft table, like taking a center in the 1st round in the NFL draft. It appears the Kings knew what (to me atleast) was plainly obvious, there was never a Toews or even a Richards upside but a Stoll upside. I'm not saying a guy like Turcotte doesn't help you win games, he does, but when you are picking that high you need to be targeting franchise players while targeting 3rd line centers later on in the draft. This rebuild may only get three top 10 picks, and Blake uses one of them on a guy they projected as a 3C? That is bad and really disappointing.

- Love the stuff about Durzi, he has a swagger that not many young Kings players have had in awhile. He knows his role in the NHL is not going to be as a safe chip it out or get it in deep kind of player but as a dynamic offensive player with some defensive short-comings. He reminds me a lot of Joe Corvo, who played the same way. Corvo had his shortcomings but played over a decade in the league providing solid puck moving ability and a strong ability to get pucks through to the goal. If Durzio can be a modern day Corvo that will be awesome for the Kings.

- On the Ducks, well I kind of disagree here, its not like it took longer for the Ducks prospects to get there (save Troy Terry). The guys they took in the middle of the decade didn't really live up to it. But they hit 2 homeruns and 1 really solid extra base hit with their 18, 19, 20 top picks. Compare Lundestrom (#23, 2018), Zegras (#9, 2019) and Drysdale (#6, 2020) to Kupari (#18, 2018), Turcotte (#5, 2019) and Byfield (#2, 2020). They had worse picks than us but have as of now taken it to us. Their evaluation and/or development has just been better than ours recently. That is disappointing

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I believe the thrust of my post was for the Kings PP to use Kaliyev a la Ovechkin--center the PP around feeding his elite shot.
And yes including for the full 2 minutes if necessary. I came to this conclusion after watching how the Caps used Ovie on the PP.
Kaliyev is the closest thing to that skillset that the Kings have ever had.

You however focused on:
(1) The 2 minutes suggestion
(2) The straw man assertion I called him Ovie

You never acknowledged the main point, which you now post about.
I am merely remarking on your desire to slander others and ignore their coherent (and in this case agreed upon) positions.

The main point....2 minutes....is asinine.....it was then, it is now....

But if you are going to have Kaliyev on the PP...then you want him using that shot....otherwise no good,

If you want to equate that with saying he's like Ovie, or Ovie like.....then so be it, again, asinine then, asinine now.

 

[kingsfan]

I'm not disappointed in the Turcotte pick. I'm disappointed in the results so far certainly, but not in the pick. At the time it made plenty of sense and was someone well within the range of guys expected to go at our pick. Obviously I think we wanted Byram, but that didn't work out. A quick google of mock drafts from the days before the 2019 draft had Turcotte going as high as Chicago at three and as low as Edmonton at eight but most had him in the 3-6 range. It hasn't panned out so far, but it happens unfortunately. Even the best development system has guys that bomb, and as one other poster pointed out it's not like the other guys expected to go around that slot have done much with Zegras being the exception.

The kid is 20 so I'll give it more time but I won't second guess the pick. At the time it made sense.

 

[KingsHockey24]

To me Chychrun is upgraded version of Jake Muzzin and not elite talent.
He can shoot very well, but not very good defensively.
Clarke conversely has incredible hockey IQ and creativity.
I do not believe we need Chychrun if price is high.

I disagree. Prime Jake Muzzin was a monster. Massive body checks, wicked shot, good in his own end. Chychrun is poor defensively and is suppose to be good offensively but his numbers don't really show that; oh and he's like not physical.. at all. Especially considering his "size".

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I'm not disappointed in the Turcotte pick. I'm disappointed in the results so far certainly, but not in the pick. At the time it made plenty of sense and was someone well within the range of guys expected to go at our pick. Obviously I think we wanted Byram, but that didn't work out. A quick google of mock drafts from the days before the 2019 draft had Turcotte going as high as Chicago at three and as low as Edmonton at eight but most had have him in the 3-6 range. It hasn't panned out so far, but it happens unfortunately. Even the best development system has guys that bomb, and as one other poster pointed out it's not like the other guys expected to go around that slot of done much with Zegras being the exception.

The kid is 20 so I'll give it more time but I won't second guess the pick. At the time it made sense.

Not how we do things around here, we only work in hindsight.....

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I'm not disappointed in the Turcotte pick. I'm disappointed in the results so far certainly, but not in the pick. At the time it made plenty of sense and was someone well within the range of guys expected to go at our pick. Obviously I think we wanted Byram, but that didn't work out. A quick google of mock drafts from the days before the 2019 draft had Turcotte going as high as Chicago at three and as low as Edmonton at eight but most had have him in the 3-6 range. It hasn't panned out so far, but it happens unfortunately. Even the best development system has guys that bomb, and as one other poster pointed out it's not like the other guys expected to go around that slot of done much with Zegras being the exception.

The kid is 20 so I'll give it more time but I won't second guess the pick. At the time it made sense.

I think it took Kempe until he was like 26 to prove he was a keeper...I think we have time.

Turc needs to put on some weight though, that should help the type of game he plays.