Rumor: Kypreos says Matthews will be 13.5M (Haggling over term)

[Martin Skoula]

Bro. You missed the point. Again. Despite quoting it, and also the top of the relevant paragraph saying "the point is." Not sure what your issue is with understanding words.

1) For the third time, the point is: In a cap world, there is a difference between a team with weak forwards (and cap space) offering ~11m to keep their best forward vs a team with good forwards (and no cap space) offering ~11m to acquire a forward who's likely going to be their third best, maybe even fourth best up front.

These two things are not the same, and therefore not even close to comparable. Even if the player we're talking about is exactly the same player.

Lmk if you continue to have trouble understanding the point. It's a pretty obvious statement and should not be this difficult for anyone to understand. Especially after being repeated 3 separate times with disclaimers saying, "the point is."

***

2) Re: Lou, he was with the Leafs for three years, which is not much time for a GM. Given Lou's track record in NJ and NYI, it's apparent he builds from the net out, and given more time, his track record strongly suggests he would've done the same thing in Toronto.

No one has said (and no one believes) that he actually fixed the D during his time in TOR, and yes, like you said it is laughable to suggest he "did anything positive" to fix the D while he was there. No one has said that, but glad you are laughing. Also, like you said he gave out some bad deals with Marleau and Zaitsev (imo the Marleau deal was truly terrible). But, given more time, his next priority would've been to fix the D. Because that is exactly how he built his teams in NJ and now NYI.

So why would he not have built the Leafs the same way (ie D and G first). Because...... you say so? Please.

***

Lastly, you're being misleading yet again. Isles missed the playoffs for the first time in a few years in 2022, after that Trotz left the team. Isles then made the playoffs last year with first year NHL coach Lane Lambert and took the Hurricanes to 6 games. It seems like you are implying Isles' style of play only works because of Trotz, that is not true.

***

Going forward, I honestly think you are / have been arguing / saying stuff in bad faith, and at this point I am having trouble taking anything you say seriously. Take that for what you will

Can you enlighten me as to what D Lou built out in NY? As far as I can tell, their #1 and 2 were there before him, as was their #4. He drafted Dobson who most would have a hard time attributing the word “defense” to, and then paid twice as much for a bottom pairing defenseman in Romanov than he got for a top pairing defenseman on a cup winner in Towes. He didn’t draft Sorokin either.

Is his building out the D just signing a few RFAs to market rate deals?

In fact, can you tell me who the best D Lou acquired via trade or UFA is in the last, oh 20 years let’s say? Re-signing RFAs who were already in the system before he arrived doesn’t count.

Why does this “build from the net out” myth keep getting told about him? It’s a complete farce, other than acquiring Schneider and Freddy he has done almost nothing useful in the better part of two decades to build from the net out. Signing buyout candidates to 8 year deals and 35+ corpses to play top 4 minutes is desperation not strategy.

 

[HabzSauce]

Matthews doesn't care for cups - he just wants some fat pockets so he can hang out with Bieber more.

Leafs need to move this guy. Why sign a greedy player with no cup aspirations for 3 years only to have him take you the cleaners again? It's not worth it but we all know how Shanahan feels about his beloved core 4.

Same goes for Marner btw. Both of them need to be evaporated unless they're willing to take winning more seriously than greed.

You just can't expect to win anything paying these two specific players over 25M/year in 2025.

 

[Breakers]

Dubas would have caved and given him 4 which he wants.

Setting him up for 8 years and completely working the system to the highest earning potential possible

And crossing the $200 million threshold

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Is AM worth 13.5 or more?

No regardless if it a 3/5 or 8 year deal

Is Nylander worth 10 million per?

No, again I don’t think he is worth more than Aho or Thachuk

It doesn’t matter if the cap is going up. Nylander was fairly paid for his previous contract. AM was overpaid based on production. Marner was overpaid as well. These players need to understand that there is new management and we are not going to overpay our stars like Dubas did. Most teams don’t provide 90%+ in signing bonus to reduce player taxes and usually pay most in the first three years. Present value of cash worth more than Future Value.

There is no guarantee the cap is going up, their pay is guaranteed. What if COVID 2024 happens, what then? (God I hope not) but could very well screw things up again and we are back where we started. Look I get your argument but the cap going up is not a guarantee. If these player are strong arming this organization and GM then they should put in a claus that reduces their pay if the cap doesn’t go up based on their projections……sound familiar-escrow my friends and no player likes that but they all want there full pay even if HHR is lower than expected.

Stop defending these spoiled brats. I’m all for every player getting theirs but if you want to win in professional sports under a hard cap system some sacrifices need to be made to give your team the opportunity to win. I’m not asking them to sign for 5 million per but allow yourself to get paid and the next man so we can have the shot at a champion. How many times did Brady restructure his contract to have the players around him?

You can continue to say this all you fancy but if Matthews comes back a solid number/term he is firm on, Toronto has zero recourse. He doesn't need to understand anything. He has literally all the leverage. He could completely screw the Leafs tomorrow by insisting he won't accept below 15M and won't waive his NMC and there is absolutely nothing Treliving can do.

It's fine to strong arm your talent when you have leverage over them. Toronto doesn't.

 

[Three On Zero]

Matthews doesn't care for cups - he just wants some fat pockets so he can hang out with Bieber more.

Leafs need to move this guy. Why sign a greedy player with no cup aspirations for 3 years only to have him take you the cleaners again? It's not worth it but we all know how Shanahan feels about his beloved core 4.

Same goes for Marner btw. Both of them need to be evaporated unless they're willing to take winning more seriously than greed.

You just can't expect to win anything paying these two specific players over 25M/year in 2025.

This exact thing is going to said over the course of the next few seasons for every hit ticket player that’s due for a new contract.

 

[ole ole]

The problem is he wants to stay in Toronto

Doesn't sound that way unless he gouges them.

 

[Divine]

Doesn't sound that way unless he gouges them.

He’s a UFA in a year. He can gouge any team he wants.

 

[Aoko]

Damn Final Fantasy XVI is a great game.

 

[Mr Bill Waters]

What's better is there are outlets reporting that 13.5/5 is team friendly!!

That is team friendly. I think market value is 13.5x4. (Once he is medically cleared.)

 

[RabbleMasterBlaster]

Starting to reach baseball player salaries without the same salary caps. Every team wants a star player, but I'm predicting another lockout in the future to reign back in salaries because how to build a competitive team when nearly 20% of your cap is spent on one player?

 

[ole ole]

He’s a UFA in a year. He can gouge any team he wants.

True but at this moment in time he's trying to gouge the Leafs

 

[McVespa99]

You can continue to say this all you fancy but if Matthews comes back a solid number/term he is firm on, Toronto has zero recourse. He doesn't need to understand anything. He has literally all the leverage. He could completely screw the Leafs tomorrow by insisting he won't accept below 15M and won't waive his NMC and there is absolutely nothing Treliving can do.

It's fine to strong arm your talent when you have leverage over them. Toronto doesn't.

This unfortunately for Toronto is the reality

 

[Divine]

True but at this moment in time he's trying to gouge the Leafs

Seems he wants to be in Toronto then

 

[Boxscore]

Seems he wants to be in Toronto then

Only on his terms.

 

[Divine]

Only on his terms.

He can get his terms wherever he wants. He wants Toronto though.

Arizona is loaded with cap space.

 

[Boxscore]

As opposed to another teams terms?

As opposed to sitting down and compromising with the Leafs and showing some loyalty like all the Avs and Lightning stars did. I'd love playing in Toronto too if they were willing to pay me anything I wanted for whatever term I wanted lmao.

 

[Divine]

As opposed to sitting down and compromising with the Leafs and showing some loyalty like all the Avs and Lightning stars did.

I wouldn't do that either if I was him

Your career is 20 years, milk it.

Play in your favourite city at the top price. You worked your entire life to be the top of your field, you've earned it.

 

[Boxscore]

Your career is 20 years, milk it.

That's the spirit.

 

[Divine]

That's the spirit.

Human nature:

Matthews shouldn't care about his cap hit.

The Leafs should.

If the Leafs feel Matthews can get the same money on multiple teams, sign him. If not, show him the market isn't there.

It's a matter of what's more valuable: Matthews or cap space. A short term deal heavily favours the Leafs though, which is why Matthews position makes no sense to me. It allows them to pivot if his wrist injuries continue or pursue Drai/McDavid.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Except an employer doesn't have to keep their workforce under an artificial cap or trade employees for employees from other companies. Terrible comparison.

Well the first part is untrue. Employers work under budget mandates all the time.

 

[hamzarocks]

I wouldn't do that either if I was him

Your career is 20 years, milk it.

Play in your favourite city at the top price. You worked your entire life to be the top of your field, you've earned it.

A component management group would have dealt a player like this out when hes trying to punk them on a deal he isnt and wont be worth.

MLSE + Shanny + Treliving finishing Dubas's job and killing any chances we have to win

 

[Divine]

A component management group would have dealt a player like this out when hes trying to punk them on a deal he isnt and wont be worth.

MLSE + Shanny + Treliving finishing Dubas's job and killing any chances we have to win

The Leafs should be happy he wants a short term deal though. It's better to pay him for the prime of his career: 3-5 years, than until he's in his mid-30's.

 

[GCK]

Starting to reach baseball player salaries without the same salary caps. Every team wants a star player, but I'm predicting another lockout in the future to reign back in salaries because how to build a competitive team when nearly 20% of your cap is spent on one player?

The concept of a hard cap is to cap spending by the highest revenue teams to disperse the top talent creating parity. Guys like McDavid should be getting 20% while the MacKinnon’s, Draisitl, Matthews, etc. should be getting 15-18%.

 

[Divine]

The concept of a hard cap is to cap spending by the highest revenue teams to disperse the top talent creating parity. Guys like McDavid should be getting 20% while the MacKinnon’s, Draisitl, Matthews, etc. should be getting 15-18%.

It'll never work that way. Look at the NBA. Just being one of the starters on a team gets you the max there.

 

[GCK]

It'll never work that way. Look at the NBA. Just being one of the starters on a team gets you the max there.

Completely different salary caps. One is a hard cap and the other is a 2 threshold tax penalty.