Rumor: Kypreos says Matthews will be 13.5M (Haggling over term)

[hamzarocks]

But the Leafs had Matthews, plus their other young core to lock up. Tavares was the ultimate overpriced luxury item for the Leafs and they splurged instead of giving him a "take it or leave it" offer of 9.5 per to come home to Toronto. The following summer, Kucherov wins the Hart and scores 126 points and signs for 9.5 x 8. The Leafs have been a clown show with contracts ever since Tavares. But continuing down the same losing path is insanity. It's time to start challenging these players to see how much they value the Leafs vs. the paycheck.


You do realize there's a hard cap in the NHL, yes? If there wasn't, MLSE would overpay for every hot free agent and our payroll would be 120 million a year.

Oh for sure we should have given Tavares a 9.5M offer and if not then sucks and we move on to locking our core down at fair deals, keeping good depth players, keeping kadri, adding to the defense etc

Tavares signing started the end of the leafs contention

 

[drktmplr12]

Imagine saying that a worker shows leadership by allowing their employer to underpay them.

Capitalism has messed with y'all's brains. Yes let's hate athletes because the owners are all cheap as hell.

Except an employer doesn't have to keep their workforce under an artificial cap or trade employees for employees from other companies. Terrible comparison.

 

[BLONG7]

14.5M is 15.7% in year 2 of a 7 year deal.

Again...............this is how GM's get fired, and of course this is how agents can ruin a team...

 

[Luck 6]

Imagine saying that a worker shows leadership by allowing their employer to underpay them.

Capitalism has messed with y'all's brains. Yes let's hate athletes because the owners are all cheap as hell.

Cheap? They’re going to spend to the cap whether they pay Matthews 13.5mil or 11mil, the difference is he is likely to have a better team around him if it is the latter. Cheap shouldn’t enter the equation when the money spent is the same.

 

[Jyrki]

Except an employer doesn't have to keep their workforce under an artificial cap or trade employees for employees from other companies. Terrible comparison.

Well, except the employers in this case imposed the artificial cap themselves so they can systematically pay employees less across the board.

No individual player is under any particular obligation to demand less just because billionaire owners want to control costs.

 

[Mr Positive]

I know Matthews is allowed to push for whatever he wants, but at 13.5 AAV, would it really put much on the table to go the full 8 years? Are deals going to be signed at 16-17 million AAV in 4 years? I doubt it.

At his age, I could see a strategy of signing a short deal and then signing an 8 year deal that takes him to 38 years old so he gets some LTIR cash at the end of it. If he went to 8 years now, it takes him to 35, and then it would be 1 year deals after, more than likely

 

[Boxscore]

I know Matthews is allowed to push for whatever he wants, but at 13.5 AAV, would it really put much on the table to go the full 8 years? Are deals going to be signed at 16-17 million AAV in 4 years? I doubt it.

At his age, I could see a strategy of signing a short deal and then signing an 8 year deal that takes him to 38 years old so he gets some LTIR cash at the end of it. If he went to 8 years now, it takes him to 35, and then it would be 1 year deals after, more than likely

If Claude Giroux can sign a 3-year deal at age 34, I think Matthews should be able to as well, considering he's supposed to be an elite player. Guys like Crosby and Ovechkin are still producing at a high level at 37. Matthews being reluctant to commit to 8-years right now is nothing more than greed on his part. He doesn't want to go 7-8 more years without getting his cut of an increasing cap. He wants to keep signing short-term deals so every 3-4 years he can start negotiating his next high cap % contract.

 

[Frankenheimer]

If Claude Giroux can sign a 3-year deal at age 34, I think Matthews should be able to as well, considering he's supposed to be an elite player. Guys like Crosby and Ovechkin are still producing at a high level at 37. Matthews being reluctant to commit to 8-years right now is nothing more than greed on his part. He doesn't want to go 7-8 more years without getting his cut of an increasing cap. He wants to keep signing short-term deals so every 3-4 years he can start negotiating his next high cap % contract.

It’s probably because he wants the flexibility to leave if the fans get even more unbearable.

 

[Boxscore]

It’s probably because he wants the flexibility to leave if the fans get even more unbearable.

Honestly, you're likely not wrong. To date, Matthews has been anointed in Toronto and the media and fans are petrified to even question him. Wait until he signs this outlandish deal, fan-favorites need to start getting traded, and the Leafs keep getting bounced in the playoffs because of their salary structure. At some point, the fans will begin getting nasty. And, yes, I think at that point Matthews takes his ball and wants out.

 

[Funk21]

Honestly, you're likely not wrong. To date, Matthews has been anointed in Toronto and the media and fans are petrified to even question him. Wait until he signs this outlandish deal, fan-favorites need to start getting traded, and the Leafs keep getting bounced in the playoffs because of their salary structure. At some point, the fans will begin getting nasty. And, yes, I think at that point Matthews takes his ball and wants out.

Maybe the issue isn’t the fans, has he done anything to deserve the kind of money he is supposedly asking for?

He has yet to elevate his game the way any of the other elite player have in the playoffs. He hasn’t carried this team on his back. Dubas gave him a sweetheart deal and the organization paid him 90%+ up front yet he still isn’t willing to commit to 8 years when 99% of other franchise players have been willing too. Lastly if he wants to win then he should understand there are sacrifices to be made. I’m sure RBC, Bell or Rogers, or a million other companies on the TSX or from the US will be happy to have him as a spokesperson making a few extra million. Be a leader and take a little less so we can have a winner. Why our management group or the media is suggesting this guy get anything above 12.5/-2.6 is beyond me.

 

[Boxscore]

Maybe the issue isn’t the fans, has he done anything to deserve the kind of money he is supposedly asking for?

He has yet to elevate his game the way any of the other elite player have in the playoffs. He hasn’t carried this team on his back. Dubas gave him a sweetheart deal and the organization paid him 90%+ up front yet he still isn’t willing to commit to 8 years when 99% of other franchise players have been willing too. Lastly if he wants to win then he should understand there are sacrifices to be made. I’m sure RBC, Bell or Rogers, or a million other companies on the TSX or from the US will be happy to have him as a spokesperson making a few extra million. Be a leader and take a little less so we can have a winner. Why our management group or the media is suggesting this guy get anything above 12.5/-2.6 is beyond me.

You are correct. I feel the exact say way. But, considering the way Matthews handles his contracts, and generally comes up small under pressure, I think he will likely want out if the fans or media start getting tough. The only problem I've seen with the fans is that we've become too soft and are absolutely terrified to question this kid or hold him accountable. Whatever he wants, he gets -- without question -- on his terms. Heck, there's fans who already claim he's the greatest Leaf of all-time... with his 0.88 PPG in the playoffs and 1 playoff round win.

 

[drktmplr12]

Maybe the issue isn’t the fans, has he done anything to deserve the kind of money he is supposedly asking for?

He has yet to elevate his game the way any of the other elite player have in the playoffs. He hasn’t carried this team on his back. Dubas gave him a sweetheart deal and the organization paid him 90%+ up front yet he still isn’t willing to commit to 8 years when 99% of other franchise players have been willing too. Lastly if he wants to win then he should understand there are sacrifices to be made. I’m sure RBC, Bell or Rogers, or a million other companies on the TSX or from the US will be happy to have him as a spokesperson making a few extra million. Be a leader and take a little less so we can have a winner. Why our management group or the media is suggesting this guy get anything above 12.5/-2.6 is beyond me.

What's better is there are outlets reporting that 13.5/5 is team friendly!!

 

[harrisb]

if the number is 13.5 it likely costs 25+ for just Matthews and Marner. That’s steep for only two players. Great player but still yet to show he can put the team on his back which is the scary part.

tough spot for the leafs TBH, have to sign him unless they are going rebuild as any trade return would be picks and prospects most likely. I’d imagine Matthews will also want full no movement so he controls if he’s traded too.

 

[Funk21]

What's better is there are outlets reporting that 13.5/5 is team friendly!!

That’s insane and Treliving basically should push back and state 9.25-9.5 x 8 for Nylander and 13.5 x 8 with 90% paid in signing bonus is on the table for the next week. After that no dice.

 

[TS Quint]

Well, except the employers in this case imposed the artificial cap themselves so they can systematically pay employees less across the board.

No individual player is under any particular obligation to demand less just because billionaire owners want to control costs.

You think the cap has cost players money? That's just flat out wrong. The cap has made a healthier league overall and with the players 50% ownership of league revenue the players have made more money with the cap.

 

[Legion34]

A few things:

1) Fair point about JT, maybe it came from above -- if it did, Dubas did a good job bringing the value down to 11m. If I remember right, JT left a few million on the table, pretty sure he had another higher offer (SJ maybe?), but JT was a UFA still at the back edge of his prime, those guys always get overpaid. We don't know that ownership was behind that signing (I doubt that's the case, but it's possible), but if so Dubas did well getting JT at a lower AAV than what he would've gotten elsewhere.

But I don't think ownership was behind the signing, my guess is that if it was an ownership call that Leafs would've made JT the best financial offer, which they didn't do. Neither of us really knows.

***

2) I don't think most people are realistically saying Leafs should've gotten AM34 and Mitch to sign for single digits AAVs (well, to be fair it looks like some ppl are arguing that, sorry about that). Personally I think the bigger issue is the term. With a cap that increases, the term matters much more than the salary, you'd expect an RFA (yes, an RFA) to only be able to negotiate one or the other. Here, both Auston and Mitch were able to negotiate both. While they were RFAs.

This has not happened in any other team in the entire league. The Leafs owned both these guys' rights, why did they give in to everything. I place that blame 100% on Dubas and no one else.

***

3) To your point about Lou, Lou is not only cheap, he generally builds his team from the net out. Look at what he did in Jersey and what he's doing now with NYI. He also does not care at all. Meaning if mgmt told Lou to sign Tavares, Lou probably would've told then to go to hell and then used the cap to sign guys like Spencer Knight, Chris Tanev, Adam Pelech. Probably not those exact players but you get the idea. If Lou were in charge of the team, there's no way he would've prioritized signing JT over a proper 1D and / or starting goalie. Those pajama boy memes never would've happened. He's also a good negotiator and he would've got AM34 and MM either at the full 8 year term, at a lower cap hit, or both. See how Yzerman got exactly what he wanted with Debrincat, Lou's a better negotiator than Stevie Y.

***

Either way Leafs as a team are not built correctly, no 1D, no long term goalie, no cap space. I'm a neutral (Zona), but completely understand why Leafs fans would be upset at Matthews (or any of the core) demanding to be the highest paid core in the league. The roster has too many holes for an actual cup contender, from the outside this whole thing just seems weird

1.) lou offered Tavares 11 x 8. It is well known. He was so mad about it he actually petitioned the league to get the week talking period changed.

2.) there is also no evidence that lou is a good negotiator at this point. He signed kovalchuk to the biggest contract ever. He signed engvall for 7 x3. Zaitsev is an albatross. He could have signed willy for a year and didn’t.

 

[TS Quint]

Honestly, you're likely not wrong. To date, Matthews has been anointed in Toronto and the media and fans are petrified to even question him. Wait until he signs this outlandish deal, fan-favorites need to start getting traded, and the Leafs keep getting bounced in the playoffs because of their salary structure. At some point, the fans will begin getting nasty. And, yes, I think at that point Matthews takes his ball and wants out.

The fans haven't cared so far. The Leafs use their media to convince the fans it's not a team problem and definitely not a Matthews problem. It's usually just one person's fault. Usually someone they are getting rid of anyway. Babcock, Kadri, Anderssen. They did blame it all on Marner one year. But Matthews? NEVER!

The year they blamed Marner he was the only one on the team who gave a shit. He went about it wrong but at least he tried. He kept trying to take on the whole team by himself every time so he stuck out like a sore thumb. But Matthews had 1 more goal in the playoffs that year and got zero blame while he turtled again and showed zero heart. Matthews just faded away and put in zero effort. Can't make mistakes if you dont try.

They did try the "respect in the hand shakes" line one year. But they were universally laughed at but the league. So they had to go back to the blame game.

This is why Matthews won't leave the Leafs. All the money and zero accountability. Even last year the media rub was to blame the depth and not the highest paid player, the generational goal scorer while they lost 3-2 every night. They were actually advocating a round off for Matthews and the depth was supposed to carry the team. What more could Matthews ask for from a franchise?

 

[Fatass]

That’s insane and Treliving basically should push back and state 9.25-9.5 x 8 for Nylander and 13.5 x 8 with 90% paid in signing bonus is on the table for the next week. After that no dice.

This thread title is confusing. There’s no “haggling” going on. Either Treliving agrees to Matthews’ contract demands or the player leaves July 1, 2024.

 

[TS Quint]

This thread title is confusing. There’s no “haggling” going on. Either Treliving agrees to Matthews’ contract demands or the player leaves July 1, 2024.

There is haggling if Matthews wants to stay.

 

[Fatass]

There is haggling if Matthews wants to stay.

So the only leverage Treliving has is “if Matthews wants to stay”?
Imo Auston has all the leverage. He’s going to get exactly what he wants. Whether that’s from the Leafs now or a different club July 1, 2024 is what we don’t know.

 

[GCK]

Again...............this is how GM's get fired, and of course this is how agents can ruin a team...

You asked what he would get not whether it’s a good idea. When the top guys move the bar higher it drags up other top players. GMs need to be smarter about giving middle tier players too much money and term.

 

[BLONG7]

You asked what he would get not whether it’s a good idea. When the top guys move the bar higher it drags up other top players. GMs need to be smarter about giving middle tier players too much money and term.

No, that was not me............another poster asked what he could get..........................I was the guy who called out one poster for throwing out 15-16M types of numbers.....

When one GM makes that type of mistake, yup the others all pay for the mistake.......sad system.

 

[Fatass]

No, that was not me............another poster asked what he could get..........................I was the guy who called out one poster for throwing out 15-16M types of numbers.....

When one GM makes that type of mistake, yup the others all pay for the mistake.......sad system.

Considered Auston has all the leverage why can’t he get 15 per? If the Leafs want him to sign a longer term than 3 years then the AAV is going to rise significantly. So, it’s either 13.5 x 3 or 15 x 5. The longer the term the higher the AAV will be.

 

[jackie boy]

Toronto will Toronto and lose early in the playoffs again.

 

[BLNY]

It’s probably because he wants the flexibility to leave if the fans get even more unbearable.

Then just get the trade done now. Say you're not willing to extend. That said, I think he and the team have had it pretty easy given the under achievements.