Rumor: Kypreos says Matthews will be 13.5M (Haggling over term)

[RebuildinVan]

And your point? McDavid was a -1 despite having ECHL quality goaltending behind him.

Also their $9M defenseman played like dogs@*t

 

[Leaf Fans]

Soft. Weak. Fragile. Heartless. Wealthy.

Yeah, but they have drafted near the top for the last few years. Though. Slavkovsky might be back, Beck will take another step, Hutson might be a steal. Reinbacher looks solid. Still this is the wrong thread for that. An accurate description of your team though.

 

[SheldonJPlankton]

Yeah, but they have drafted near the top for the last few years. Though. Slavkovsky might be back, Beck will take another step, Hutson might be a steal. Reinbacher looks solid. Still this is the wrong thread for that. An accurate description of your team though.

 

[34]

mcdavid basically score 2 ppg during the playoffs id say he's not the problem for the oilers. can't really say Matthews has the same presence in the playoffs.

How many points did Pettersson get in the playoffs. Oh wait….

More goals were scored against the Oilers when McDavid was on the ice at ES than the Oilers scored goals.

Exactly.

 

[BLONG7]

McDavid should be worth about $20M in the looming Cap forecasts.
Draisatl and MacKinnon are probably worth about $17M.
Matthews is therefore at about $16M.

... if these guys take less than those numbers, they are just being "nice" and love the city they are playing in and are trying to sacrifice to help their teams win. MacKinnon basically already did that. The other guys... it's up to them. You can't really fault them either direction... money or sacrifice-for-team are both valid approaches.

Thinking you must be related to a player agent??
lol

All jokes aside you have some serious numbers there.....

 

[MCR74]

How many points did Pettersson get in the playoffs. Oh wait….


Exactly.

l keep waiting for this supposed Pettersson greatness.

 

[dukeofjive]

Yeah, but they have drafted near the top for the last few years. Though. Slavkovsky might be back, Beck will take another step, Hutson might be a steal. Reinbacher looks solid. Still this is the wrong thread for that. An accurate description of your team though.

How dare you say nice things about my team, you sir are gem.

 

[tilly123123]

13.37 AAV would be the right number for an elite player like him.

cup coming

 

[Vinny1983]

MacGinnon is the guy with no fifty goal seasons no Hart trophy and only one hundred point season who's going on 32 in a year or two right?

MacKinnon:

Career Playoffs​

GP	G	A	P	+/-
77	44	56	100	34

Matthews:

Career Playoffs​

GP	G	A	P	+/-
50	22	22	44	0

Overall “decent” stats for Matthews but Mack is a beast in the playoffs while Matthews is unnoticeable half the time.
But yay for 100 point seasons and trophies! (minus the one that really matters to teams/fans)

 

[Legion34]

MacKinnon:

Career Playoffs​

GP	G	A	P	+/-
77	44	56	100	34

Matthews:

Career Playoffs​

GP	G	A	P	+/-
50	22	22	44	0

Overall “decent” stats for Matthews but Mack is a beast in the playoffs while Matthews is unnoticeable half the time.
But yay for 100 point seasons and trophies! (minus the one that really matters to teams/fans)

Unfortunately there is no precedent at all for playoff stats for salaries.

None of the top contracts from last year have won a cup.

Regular season totals awards determine salaries.

Mcdavid. 0 cups. When he signed he missed 2 of t3 years.

Karlsons. 2 Norris. No cups.

Price/Bob. Vezina but no cups.

Heck eichel was how many years into his 10 million dollar deal before he actually played a single post season game?

 

[Vinny1983]

Unfortunately there is no precedent at all for playoff stats for salaries.

None of the top contracts from last year have won a cup.

Regular season totals awards determine salaries.

Mcdavid. 0 cups. When he signed he missed 2 of t3 years.

Karlsons. 2 Norris. No cups.

Price/Bob. Vezina but no cups.

Heck eichel was how many years into his 10 million dollar deal before he actually played a single post season game?

Im not sure I agree fully with your salary statement, however everyone you named showed up whenever their team actually made the playoffs.
As much as I hate Matthews’ face, and more so with that porn stache, I admit he is a great player. The difference to me is: he doesn’t carry or motivate his team by example, like MacKinnon or McDavid both do.

 

[mkatcherin00]

MacKinnon:

Career Playoffs​

GP	G	A	P	+/-
77	44	56	100	34

Matthews:

Career Playoffs​

GP	G	A	P	+/-
50	22	22	44	0

Overall “decent” stats for Matthews but Mack is a beast in the playoffs while Matthews is unnoticeable half the time.
But yay for 100 point seasons and trophies! (minus the one that really matters to teams/fans)

50 games and even. All I read is how elite AM is defensively. You would think he would be better than even.

 

[Community]

50 games and even. All I read is how elite AM is defensively. You would think he would be better than even.

Plus/minus isn't the best stat, but for some better perspective:
- Matthews was -5 his first three years, +5 since then (defensive improvement).
- You're not likely to be a positive player when your team loses in the first round the majority of your career to date.

Not arguing Mackinnon vs Matthews, but there's some obvious reasons for his plus/minus to date (and it's not a great stat to use).

While Matthews could be better, he has been pretty good most playoff series for the Leafs. Hoping for the next step, but he's definitely had a better impact than a +/- of 0 indicates.

 

[petterdaddy]

How many points did Pettersson get in the playoffs. Oh wait….


Exactly.

Pettersson has 18 points (7 goals 11 assists) in 17 GP.

 

[eramosat]

The problem is even though these superstars are more talented than most, they don’t impact the game like an NBA player does. Takes a full team to win. Edmonton should be winning cups with 2 of the best players in the world. Also factor in hockey is a contact sport, where injuries are almost certain. Then you got a $15 million dollar guy injured. Better to go the way of a Stlouis where they had good nhlers but no real superstars.

says one person who doesn't want to pay the greatest player in the NHL today...McDavid...20 million dollars to make him stay with their team. And wants to go balanced salary, as if somehow that is a clearly better solution.

Yes, McDavid is worth the max allowable, every time he reaches renegotiation time. So is Draisatl. So is Matthews, and a bunch of other players, because without them, the odds of winning plummet. NHL is top-heavy salary to a huge degree, and trending heavier, and bucking that trend for the few players you have the ability, or affinity, to sign is simply an unproven approach. Sign the best you can for the $$ you have, and pay the rest peanuts. And fiddle with it for the next 5-6-7-8 years, depending on what your stars signed for. If you can hornswoggle the best players into taking even 5%, or 10%!, less of their max contract...those are the only meaningful margins available for capable GMs to attempt.

And the rest is just luck, as the term on your highest paid signings play out, and the GM massages the cap margins, the injuries, the market, whatever. But at no point is not signing the best available players to their deals a better path.

It is brutal, and dumb, and inescapable. And any team that forgoes it's opportunity to retain a max-type player forfeits a lot, and would need to have some serious backup strategy in mind to recover, which would probably involve a lot of other team's dominoes that they simply cannot count on in a fair market.

 

[canuckslover10]

How many points did Pettersson get in the playoffs. Oh wait….


Exactly.

he had 18 points in 17 playoff games wanna remind me when was the last time Matthews played 17 playoff games in a single season run?

 

[canuckslover10]

l keep waiting for this supposed Pettersson greatness.

funny I was going to say the same for Matthews during the playoffs, superstars are supposed to play like superstars during the playoffs clearly Matthews didn't get the memo.

 

[PainForShane]

Unfortunately there is no precedent at all for playoff stats for salaries.

None of the top contracts from last year have won a cup.

Regular season totals awards determine salaries.

Mcdavid. 0 cups. When he signed he missed 2 of t3 years.

Karlsons. 2 Norris. No cups.

Price/Bob. Vezina but no cups.

Heck eichel was how many years into his 10 million dollar deal before he actually played a single post season game?

The bolded isn't true at all, or even if it is, it's incredibly misleading.

MacKinnon is the highest paid player in the league, on the back of his contribution during the Avs' cup win. Toews and Kane both earned 10.5m long term mostly because of the cups they won in Chicago. Karlsson makes 11.5 partly because he performs in the playoffs including basically carrying a sub-100 point Sens team to the ECF game 7 that one year, Doughty and Kopi both make 10m+ in no small part because of LA's cups and the leadership they showed during those runs.

***

So yeah, playoff success absolutely factors into salaries, moreso on the team side -- ie if the team does well and the player played well during whichever playoff run(s), he'll likely get paid more. Which makes sense -- playoffs matter more than regular season so obviously playoff performance would / should move a star player's salary up or down by a million or two at least.

Does it happen every single time? No, plenty of times a star player is signed to a lucrative deal while they are young (Eichel, McDavid who you mentioned above without considering context, Matthews also is an example of this). But playoff success affects salaries often enough, for instance no way a guy like MacKinnon wouldn't have become the league's highest paid player if he hadn't just heavily contributed to the Avs cup win

edit spelling

 

[jiitu]

says one person who doesn't want to pay the greatest player in the NHL today...McDavid...20 million dollars to make him stay with their team. And wants to go balanced salary, as if somehow that is a clearly better solution.

Yes, McDavid is worth the max allowable, every time he reaches renegotiation time. So is Draisatl. So is Matthews, and a bunch of other players, because without them, the odds of winning plummet. NHL is top-heavy salary to a huge degree, and trending heavier, and bucking that trend for the few players you have the ability, or affinity, to sign is simply an unproven approach. Sign the best you can for the $$ you have, and pay the rest peanuts. And fiddle with it for the next 5-6-7-8 years, depending on what your stars signed for. If you can hornswoggle the best players into taking even 5%, or 10%!, less of their max contract...those are the only meaningful margins available for capable GMs to attempt.

And the rest is just luck, as the term on your highest paid signings play out, and the GM massages the cap margins, the injuries, the market, whatever. But at no point is not signing the best available players to their deals a better path.

It is brutal, and dumb, and inescapable. And any team that forgoes it's opportunity to retain a max-type player forfeits a lot, and would need to have some serious backup strategy in mind to recover, which would probably involve a lot of other team's dominoes that they simply cannot count on in a fair market.

LOL.

The point is that those top-heavy teams are not winning. Simple as that. This spring, I think, was the first year ever that 10+ M caphit player won a cup (Eichel with exactly 10M). Edit: and to even win a series, it was first time just couple of years ago. In percentages, Crosby had 15.3 % in 08-09 and Malkin I guess is the second highest cap-% winner (?) with 13.3 % (last cup), corresponds about 12.8M &11 M now. Ovechkin had 12,7 % and generally, it starts to be very difficult and rare to win with 12+ % cap hit players = 10 M now. I think the years have changed and it's just more and more about team-effort and more and more difficult to win with overpaied top players. It is purely lie if you tell that top-heavy teams would be winners. It's opposite of that. It's just so fully how some are so much for "pay a lot to best players" and even then defining "the best" just by point production. It's so silly and funny.

Like I wrote in Aho thread, in playoffs, he has about same +- saldo per game as MacDavid. MacDavid contributes clearly more on power play, but 5-on-5, There's actually not big difference. On the other hand, Aho is important on penalty kill.

It is simply silly, absloutely silly to even think to pay 20 M for MacDavid. If you really think that he+Derek Ryan + Connor Brown is better combination to the team than e.g Hintz + Robertson + Pavelski, you are out of your mind.

Cap ceiling matters and fact is that there is no player who would be worth of 15 M caphit now, not to talk about 20 M in very distant future.

 

[Legion34]

Im not sure I agree fully with your salary statement, however everyone you named showed up whenever their team actually made the playoffs.
As much as I hate Matthews’ face, and more so with that porn stache, I admit he is a great player. The difference to me is: he doesn’t carry or motivate his team by example, like MacKinnon or McDavid both do.

Ok. You can feel free to have whatever subjective opinions you want.

But there is no evidence at all that teams use playoff stats to determine salaries. In the way they do regular season awards.

This is about how much money he should make.

I don’t even know If arbitrartors use it at all.

You don’t actually get paid in the playoffs. His playoff salary is 0

 

[Fatass]

Ok. You can feel free to have whatever subjective opinions you want.

But there is no evidence at all that teams use playoff stats to determine salaries. In the way they do regular season awards.

This is about how much money he should make.

I don’t even know If arbitrartors use it at all.

You don’t actually get paid in the playoffs. His playoff salary is 0

Matthews should make, obviously, less than McDavid and Mackinnon. But he’s going to make more. Kypreos reported 13.5 per over a short term. I’m thinking Auston (if the Leafs don’t want to lose him for nothing July 1, 2024) gets 14+.

 

[Legion34]

The bolded isn't true at all, or even if it is, it's incredibly misleading.

MacKinnon is the highest paid player in the league, on the back of his contribution during the Avs' cup win. Toews and Kane both earned 10.5m long term mostly because of the cups they won in Chicago. Karlsson makes 11.5 partly because he performs in the playoffs including basically carrying a sub-100 point Sens team to the ECF game 7 that one year, Doughty and Kopi both make 10m+ in no small part because of LA's cups and the leadership they showed during those runs.

***

So yeah, playoff success absolutely factors into salaries, moreso on the team side -- ie if the team does well and the player played well during whichever playoff run(s), he'll likely get paid more. Which makes sense -- playoffs matter more than regular season so obviously playoff performance would / should move a star player's salary up or down by a million or two at least.

Does it happen every single time? No, plenty of times a star player is signed to a lucrative deal while they are young (Eichel, McDavid who you mentioned above without considering context, Matthews also is an example of this). But playoff success affects salaries often enough, for instance no way a guy like MacKinnon wouldn't have become the league's highest paid player if he hadn't just heavily contributed to the Avs cup win

edit spelling

You are just saying things.

Top NHL players in high tax markets get 14-15% of the cap regardless of performance.
That’s what Kane and toews and karlson got.

In order to prove this you would have to show that there is a tangible difference between the salaries of players who had more playoff success. There is no proof of this.

Seth Jones. Werenski. Drai/Mcdavid when they signed, barkov, huberdeau, tkachuks when they signed.

Hill got half what sorokin got. Hill won a cup.


There is just no evidence of what you are saying. Regular season counting stats and trophies are way more predictive of AAV then playoff success.

Barbashev didn’t get 10 million. Marchy isn’t going to get Mcdavid money.

 

[BLONG7]

Getting paid is basically every player's main priority.

Sakic and Fedorov sure didn't care about winning when they chased the money from the Rangers and Hurricanes.

If you offered any NHL player the option of a league minimum salary with a Stanley Cup, or making 13 million, 100% of the players would take the 13 million.

Somewhat true..............that said, the best players on each team don't have to choose the PA's min wage or 13M?
Every team right now, needs a couple of guys to lead the way with leaving a bit of money on the table to ensure the GM has a chance to build a good team. So, guys don't have to choose 750k or 13M.......................

To be a fly on the wall, when the agent asks the leafs to make his guy the highest paid player in the league? When on some nights, he is not the best player on his team....?

AM holds all the cards right now, and that's on Dubas. Lou would never had let the kids, and their agents hold him hostage like this....

 

[BLONG7]

13.37 AAV would be the right number for an elite player like him.

How does a team justify paying this kid that kind of money, when McD and MacK are at 12.5M?
If you think AM is a better player than those two guys you are crazy.....
Watching the leafs, there are many nights he is not even the best player on his team, let alone the league?

 

[nhlfan9191]

How does a team justify paying this kid that kind of money, when McD and MacK are at 12.5M?
If you think AM is a better player than those two guys you are crazy.....
Watching the leafs, there are many nights he is not even the best player on his team, let alone the league?

The Leafs are at a cross road with their core. All of them are selfish and want a premium to play there. If they’re content with never having money to fill out the depth, D, and goaltending to actually win something, then letting themselves get bent over by their stars like they have the past 4-5 years is the path to continue going.