Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[andora]

Oh gotcha.

Well then I don't like our chances of keeping Matthews if Brad comes here...

LOL I don't think that was tied to him being the general manager I think it was tied to them wanting to play at home. Luckily so far outside of all the bullshit Matthews appears to be different

 

[yubbers]

Yes Dubas was handed a core that could make the playoffs easily, but that same core for 7 seasons couldn't achieve much playoff success that people are now complaining about and wanting to be changed because they're too soft, not gritty enough, can't score when they need it most etc. So which is it? Was Dubas handed a great core and if so why do Leafs fans complain year after year that some or all of them underperformed and aren't good enough and one or more need to be moved?

That's what Dubas has worked with for the past 7 seasons. A talented core that had weaknesses. Dubas tried to address the weaknesses in the team to support the core and so far it has resulted in relative little playoff success outside of 1 playoff round. Is it the fault of Dubas or is it the fault of the Leafs top players for not stepping up and playing better?



What ridiculous contracts did Dubas hand out to players in his time as GM here? Fine just say for the moment that Matthews and Marner are 'overpaid'. Who else did he overpay? Nylander has turned into a good contract. Tavares isn't bad by free agent standards. Rielly could be bad if he can't play like he did in the playoffs consistently, but if he can play nearly as well then its a good contract.

Mrazek is a bad one. Holl? Not the best, but far from the worst and it was relatively short term. Richie? Not great, but not the worst too. Short term contract for him to prove himself and it didn't work out. So help me out which of his other signings fall into the 'ridiculous' category?

Which contract did Dubas hand out that comes even close to Nikita Zaitzev or Matt Martin levels of bad that was given by Lou?

It's not just about bad contracts. He's made so many errors that cost the team badly

He waived Big Mac for Sparks who he had to kick out of the locker room a week before our playoff qualifier we lost. LOL.

He waived Hainsey who Reilz had a career year with. Decided Codi Ceci was a better option. Reilz of course suffered.

Failed to insulate Kadri going into that 2nd suspension season. When Simmonds went for peanuts to Jersey. Dubas got Wayne a few years late

Gave up a 1st to dump a year of Marleau

Continued to hand out 1sts for failed deadline acquisitions

He managed to turn gold into straw. It's impressively bad.

 

[TheShape]

What's interesting to me is it was reported by Dreger that Matthews will just march into MLSE and put down a take it or leave it demand and it seems like the GM was ready to make the same play. Whether that's true or not, I think it is time for the organization to change the perception that it's just a push over ATM machine. The sausage making process is probably going to be gross, but it does look like the organization needs to restore some dignity in terms of having standards, being respected in negotiations, and recognized as a special place to play and work for. I just don't want to see my team held hostage like that.

I like what Shanny did here first and foremost because it sends a message and sets the standard for these players and their upcoming contracts. None of these guys have won a thing, fall in line or get out. Nobody on the roster should be safe at this point.

Definite culture reset needed here.

 

[SprDaVE]

Letting Gaudeau get to that point was awful. The trade itself for Tkachuk wasnt even that bad, but extending at that time was very questionable and showed a lack of vision.


With that said, we've hired the consensus best in the business before in Burke and Babcock, both flamed out. We've hired inexperience and experienced, neither has worked.

So many factors that go into these decisions and maybe its just a change of scenery and resources to make those jumps. I dont think any of us have a clue how the next person will do.

It was but like... what were they supposed to do? They offered what they could and they were contenders in his UFA year. Dubas let Hyman go for nothing too... all though he's not Gaudreau -- sometimes good teams need to take a chance with pending UFAs.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Honestly this move might be the final straw for me as a fan. Legit cannot believe they made such a f*** up, and it is squarely on them because they should have extended him last year.

And for all the hurr durr Dubas sucks, let me remind you..

- Lou signs Zaitsev and Marleau deals
- Nonis signs Clarkson and tried to sign Bolland
- Burke trades unprotected firsts that become top end picks and signs LACK
- JFJ trades Steen, Rask, etc

Dubas was ALWAYS able to get trades done and he NEVER put the team in a shit situation with these unmovable contracts or mortgaging the future. He knew the value of the assets he had, was a great scout both amateur and professionally.

I question if Dubas haters were fans longer than the past few seasons to understand how big of a f***up this day is.

I've been a Leafs fan for over sixty years, and not a 'Dubas hater'.

You don't think Tavares' contract is both unmovable and mortgaged the future?

 

[Larcos_Unal]

There couldn’t have been a more fitting exit for Kyle Dubas: a failed contract negotiation.

Also ironic, Kyle finally showed some balls and it got him fired lol

 

[Gallagbi]

It was but like... what were they supposed to do? They offered what they could and they were contenders in his UFA year. Dubas let Hyman go for nothing too... all though he's not Gaudreau -- sometimes good teams need to take a chance with pending UFAs.

I think my issue is they always thought they were better than they were. Its why they signed Huberdeau and Weegar to horrific deals.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think my issue is they always thought they were better than they were. Its why they signed Huberdeau and Weegar to horrific deals.

Nobody saw that level of regression but yeah... that's part of the job. Huberdeau extension was bad, Weegars extension is more than good. Markstrom went from Vezina to terrible as well.

 

[LeafLoyalist]

Treiliving is definitely a downgrade from Dubas. It's not just the Tkachuk deal. He let Johnny Hockey walk for nothing. He gave away Bennett for nothing. Used a 1st to dump Monahan. Gave up a bunch of picks to rent Jarknkrok. Etc.

He's bad.

I don't think he drafts well either. The only positive is that he recognizes the value of toughness.

lol… he traded tkachuk for huberdeau bad right.. but he got something before he walked and then go criticize that he let guadreau walk for nothing… LOL!!!

 

[ICE FIRE]

Anyone wanna point to a post where someone might have outlined what he said or do a brief summar: coles notes version? I am just getting home

thanks in advance!

It is something way better to watch,lots of shaking your head moments.
Lots of replays on youtube.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Former NHL President’s POV on Leafs’ GM Change | Kyper & Bourne

SPORTSNET

May 19, 2023 Real Kyper & Bourne

Former NHL President and GM Doug MacLean joined Nick Kypreos and Gord Stellick to give his perspective on the fallout of the Maple Leafs' front office.

 

[93LEAFS]

Why is this guy missed? He never won anything for us, and was unlikely to win anything for us

 

[notDatsyuk]

If we are going by hindsight. The Boyle trade to make the playoffs and the Marleau signing the following summer right away sped up the rebuild.
Might also cause Hunter to draft more overagers due to needing players to come in and contribute quicker.
The JT’s signing was the accumulation of that.

However, if AM, MM, Willie and JT actually raised their level like Reilly in the playoffs, Dubas will still be GM, the core will be intact and we might have already won a Cup or two.

At the end of the day, Dubas did a lot of things right but betted on the wrong horses.

That's on Keefe, and that's on Dubas.

 

[IPS]

Dubas talking himself out of a dream job is pure comedy. He truly believed he was the only worthy candidate here and the organization were going to bend over to his demands. Got humbled in the process and should probably fire his agent into the sun.

Never trust someone who believes they are the smartest person in the room.

You literally can't write a more fitting end for Dubas' tenure here.

 

[rocketman588]

I've been a Leafs fan for over sixty years, and not a 'Dubas hater'.

You don't think Tavares' contract is both unmovable and mortgaged the future?

Him "giving up his fandom" shows his cards

Like many others he will be gone here. Don't know why but Dubas has a cult

 

[Jozay]

Brad Treliving the favourite, per Chris Johnston. To the shitter we go. Thank you Shanahan.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Why is this guy missed? He never won anything for us, and was unlikely to win anything for us

This is the way the media operates in this city. Has nothing but disdain for the guy when on the job, suddenly he becomes King Clancy when dismissed. The problem isn't Shanahan or Dubas or the players, the problem is the boardroom infighting instigated by two rival telecom monopolies that not only own the team, but the press surrounding it. This organization needs singular leadership and a singular vision.

 

[thewave]

Also ironic, Kyle finally showed some balls and it got him fired lol

I think he was gone regardless and they pounced on the opportunity to make him the architect of his own undoing. It was too easy after what he said.

 

[Menzinger]

Why was an unsettled GM so willing to get in front of the media? A little bit unprofessional in hindsight.

Though it should be expected of anyone in the front office.

Imo the fact that Shanny took his time to speak until Friday is more suspect than Dubas' speaking his mind on Monday

 

[BertCorbeau]

Nobody saw that level of regression but yeah... that's part of the job. Huberdeau extension was bad, Weegars extension is more than good. Markstrom went from Vezina to terrible as well.

Don’t underestimate the Darryl Sutter effect.. that really had an impact IMO

 

[Torontonian]

What can I say man. This is the best TGIF in the city of Toronto

Tell me, you don't find it a bit concerning, someone who will be fairly brand new to the organization has to potentially navigate new contracts for our superstar centerman or navigate franchise changing trades in about 6 weeks? All while trying to figure out how exactly they want this team to play and sign/trade for those players?

This isn't an ideal time to be without a GM.

 

[LeafEgo]

I dont understand the panic.. there is plenty of time for stuff.. it will be busy.. but plenty of time.

- draft.. what do we have 3 picks? Umm ok.. same scouting staff all here.. ok done

- head coach - gm to have input but likely gone. Lots of time on new coach.. ok done

- gm search - have essentially weeks or longer to get it right..

- matthews extension. Can shanahan a d pridham not handle this? Starts with a conversation and they have 6 weeks to talk .. get a deal in principle or trade him

- marner - have 6 weeks to decide to keep or trade.. lots of time..

- nylander - see matthews comment

- trades - are we so skeptical in a pinch that shanahan and pridham and fletcher couldnt handle these trades? I am pretty sure they could handle them if push comes to shove - i foresee the gm brought in lining up with the trade targets anyhow..

Busy yeah but it isnt even june yet

The problem is, if we are going to reestablish a serious operation, we need to set out a 5 year competitive vision, and then build towards that.

Ideally, we would hire a GM, map out their strategic plan, they would employ their staff, begin trade talks, execute trade deals, conduct the draft, and then manouver free agency in accordance with the vision. We are probably looking at several weeks before even beginning that process, which could then take months to execute properly.

The most critical pieces and decisions of that plan unfortunately have a 5 week deadline on them - with long term ramifications.

We are going to be shooting from the hip in a mad scramble to try to build the plan and execute at the same time. That could take years to calibrate concurrently and will eat into the window we are working with - there will be missed opportunities along the way as a result of navigating the madness.

 

[Gallagbi]

This is the way the media operates in this city. Has nothing but disdain for the guy when on the job, suddenly he becomes King Clancy when dismissed. The problem isn't Shanahan or Dubas or the players, the problem is the boardroom infighting instigated by two rival telecom monopolies that not only own the team, but the press surrounding it. This organization needs singular leadership and a singular vision.

Like Ballard?

 

[Torontonian]

Don’t underestimate the Darryl Sutter effect.. that really had an impact IMO

Agreed with this, unfair to Brad to essentially make a deal to be forced by ownership to keep Sutter as the HC and the team quit with him at the helm.

 

[3blizzard4]

I like what Shanny did here first and foremost because it sends a message and sets the standard for these players and their upcoming contracts. None of these guys have won a thing, fall in line or get out. Nobody on the roster should be safe at this point.

Definite culture reset needed here.

I agree. This is the first time since letting go of Lou that I get a feeling that Shanny is putting it out there that snow flake days are a bygone era. That starts with an experienced GM.

If players want to f*ck around, they will find out.