Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[DarkKnight]

Bettman is meeting with Quenneville when the season ends. Let’s take our time on the coach.

 

[LeafsStorm]

I have some mixed feelings on this one.

Not really sure how to digest this one. I think I'll read through the thread over the next few days etc.

 

[zoA]

Well, this just looks bad on everyone now. Dubas was a bit too tactical here and I think the late financial change was a bit too aggressive — although, I’ve waited years for Dubas to become more aggressive, but this wasn’t the best way to go about it. The fact that Shanahan didn’t already have contingency plans in place is alarming though. You can’t be at that level as a decision maker and not be considering all your options — that just feels entirely too comfortable/lazy in my opinion.

Definitely not optimistic about how this is going to play out. I feel like we’re going back to the nonis era, and things are going to continue to get worse. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[DarkKnight]

Anyone else feel like we dodged a bullet? I am so happy he isn't coming back. My hope for a cup here in Toronto just tripled at least.

The more we learn yes! Let’s hope this is the start of the end to entitlement.

 

[thewave]

Matt Murray alone is a fireable offence. Leafs will need a first (probably Boston first that cost Sandin) just to get rid of him.


Simple. They work for the same owners.

Okay well don't I feel stupid now. Same owners haha you win! lol

 

[Smif]

Hopefully Dubas goes to Pittsburgh and takes Murray back with him.

 

[Knies iT]

The important elements at play here are:

• Shanahan initially deciding Dubas "did enough" to be extended.
• Dubas' family dramatics definitely come off as a power play due to circling back with a rumoured ransom demand after being offered to stay. I believe it's true to some extent, but he used that as an excuse/leverage to shelter himself from a potentially unfavourable outcome (i.e. i'm stepping away, not fired).
• Shanahan was not ready for this outcome and is scrambling. Seemed like a rambling mess fumbling with his water bottle while narrating some very odd timeline of events. This is not his preferred outcome.

I think there's two possibilities at play. Either Shanahan became aware of a more suitable replacement that came out of left field (a la Lou Lam situation), or this was a rushed decision that fell apart due to contract demands despite wanting the person back, and not a calculated decision, which does not inspire confidence. Have a feeling it's the latter.

As for my opinion of Dubas - there's some hilarious dramatics going on in here. Standard is so low in this market.

As I even said years ago before slightly souring on Dubas, he is a net neutral GM. Somewhere in the 15/32 GM range (maybe slightly higher). He won't sink you with boat anchor UFA spending, tends to do well with free wallet discount acquisitions (Bunting, Moore, McMann, Steeves, Petruzzelli, etc.), and drafts well at a B+/A- level but negates some of that impact by liquidating a lot of draft capital.

Biggest losses: Kadri, Foligno, Marchment, Murray, Sandin
Biggest wins: Muzzin, McCabe, Giordano, Kapanen (nothing to show for)

Other deals like ROR (rental for one round win) and Campbell (losing Moore) are pretty fair value wise, which summarizes 90% of his other moves - break even. His best draft picks are Sandin (1st), Knies (2nd), Durzi (2nd), Robertson (2nd), Niemela (3rd), Holmberg (6th).

He's done a great job as a builder, in the sense that he created a strong scouting infrastructure, re-designed media relations with players (Lou did a lot here), and made this a safer place for local players to actually want to come back and be a part of. That's helped in UFA. However, we are far passed the building stage and have been toiling in the "next step" phase of becoming an actual championship contender for years. He has failed to identify the right mix of players to insulate the stars, and has failed to pivot away from his core 4 commitment post-pandemic. He cannot outright win a trade and fails to solidify the goaltending every season.

This is not an "elite" GM. He laid a good foundation but does not know what a championship build looks like and the trial and error garbage is spreading our assets thin.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Anyone think we might be able to pry Toronto native David Poile out of his recent retirement?

I'd be down with that.

we did do that with Lou so possible but who knows..

 

[ColdToiletSeats]

I think Babcock would be a great replacement

 

[All Mod Cons]

Dubas loyalists don't like facts shhh.

He came in with the core already there. Added the only piece to the core that has been a anchor (Tavares) - which messed cap up. Handed out insane contracts too early for the rest because of that mistake. No money left for the rest of the spots.

Defense - Disaster
Goalies - Constantly neglected during his tenure and bit Leafs in the ass every year.

How many quality prospects is he leaving this organization with? How many wasted 1st round picks?

This tenure will be viewed as a disaster by any objective fan in the coming years. Good riddance.

He gave Andreas Johnsson 3.4mil.

3.4 million f***ing dollars.

 

[Buds17]

So when a new GM comes in, hires a new coach and they’re both in agreement they want to keep the Core 4 together and put in players around them they feel would work, how we feeling about that? This could be a possibility with new people in place.

It's entirely possible that a new coach can get more out of that core and the team's support players. I'll also hope that a new GM can capably fill in those gaps around the big money to the greater extent. The major changes in player personnel might have been more necessary with a return of the coach (and possibly also the GM).

 

[Future]

Literally this. Millions of kids grow up dreaming of having that job, and Dubas’ press conference was a slap in the face to every one of them that would take his place in a second.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Life will go on without Kyle. It doesn’t mean that automatically we will have some hideous GM because that’s all there really is: just Kyle and a few other decent GMs that are already taken. The team will be fine, or no worse than before I’m sure.

 

[Just Rude]

He can. And he did.

 

[Ronellis]

Brendan Shanahan just established himself as the Alpha male in the Leafs' organization.

He just gave Kyle Dubas and the whole World this message: "Don't screw around with me."

If Dubas was old enough to watch Shanahan play hockey he would have known that and realized his bullsh!t negotiating tactics were going to backfire on him.

 

[SprDaVE]

Anyone else feel like we dodged a bullet? I am so happy he isn't coming back. My hope for a cup here in Toronto just tripled at least.

Who you got to take over? A cup would be nice.

 

[Petrus]

I think this it's about trust.. Shanahan thought a deal was generally in place. Dubas told him he wanted the job before the season started, then at the deadline. Shanahan went to get approval for a new contract with that information. Shanahan thought he and the agent for Dubas had a contract in place. Then Dubas dragged his feet at the eleventh hour, went to the media, aired his dirty laundry, and became wish washy. Shanahan's perspective on Dubas changed, rightfully so, and he decided it's not the type of business he wanted to be in.

Shanahan knows this doesn't look good on him, and I think that's why he probably pulled the plug on Dubas. Dubas seemingly told him repeatedly he wanted the job, they put a contract in place, and then Dubas changed his demand once it was obvious Shanahan was backed up against a wall and in a vulnerable position. One that he had a part in constructing. IMO if I'm Shanahan I'm hurt by it, considering he stuck his neck out hiring him to be an assistant GM and hiring him to be GM

Shanny likely worked on the terms with Dubas prior and then went to the board for approval and vouched for Dubas. Then Dubas threw a curveball at the presser and demanded more money.

Shanny says eff that I’m not dealing with this clown.

 

[leafsfan5]

Dubas really gave a masterclass on how not to play negotiations lmfao

 

[DueDiligence]

The Dubie got smoked.

 

[7even]

Just a coincidence that the two teams in the WCF are based in Dallas and Vegas and the two teams in the ECF have red jerseys I guess.

What?

 

[DarkKnight]

The Dubie got smoked.

The Dubie got rolled.

 

[Petrus]

Who you got to take over? A cup would be nice.

Pridham will since he is still contracted by the Leafs.

 

[Ciao]

How many drinks did you guys have?

It is Friday and Long weekend, my colleagues and I had a nice brunch. We are talking about the business sides of sports bc one of them got a client who is planning to buy a WHL team due to profits....Got me thinking, wouldn't it be a bomb if MLSE decoupled with the Leafs and sell the Leafs to Houston or some other place for like 1.5billions and then MLSE pays the NHL 650mil to have a Franchise in Toronto. The new Leafs will play where the Leafs play now, and will go through expansion draft and might actually have a better team that could go further in the playoffs with none of those since 67, or 6 yrs of 1st round loss....

 

[CincoHolio]

It is Friday and Long weekend, my colleagues and I had a nice brunch. We are talking about the business sides of sports bc one of them got a client who is planning to buy a WHL team due to profits....Got me thinking, wouldn't it be a bomb if MLSE decoupled with the Leafs and sell the Leafs to Houston or some other place for like 1.5billions and then MLSE pays the NHL 650mil to have a Franchise in Toronto. The new Leafs will play where the Leafs play now, and will go through expansion draft and might actually have a better team that could go further in the playoffs with none of those since 67, or 6 yrs of 1st round loss....

Was it a liquid lunch?