Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[HamiltonNHL]

It just gets worse.

 

[CDN24]

Feels like the old adage there are three sides to every story applies here. There is Dubas' side, Shanny's side and then there is the truth.

Obviously they (team) were not comfortable saying he would be back when the 1st presser happened- Dubas not wrong in that a end of season presser had to happen then and his future needed to be mentioned. Did he say to much- who knows? either way it seems like Shanny/Board were winging it and no real plan/decision had been made. That is on the team- not Dubas. was a change warranted?- probably but they come off looking unprepared.

 

[phillipmike]

Guys, it has been longer than 4 hours, should i seek medical treatment?

 

[LeafsandSharksfan]

He took Dubas' camp at face value, as you would. He was blindsided no doubt, but to say he doesn't have a handle on the org because Dubas was being deceitful is a stretch (to me).

Regardless, I am not upset with us moving on from Dubas, but that only really matters if we move on from Keefe as well (I have changed my tune on that recently).

It is exciting, because this means more changes are coming, and after seven seasons of trying mostly the same thing we will be getting a new approach.

The players are on notice now, not that they weren't before, but I am sure they felt pretty secure. That has all changed.

Is there anything to suggest we are getting a new approach? Again, they were perfectly happy to bring Dubas back until Monday and it fell apart over money. In terms of the hockey process this feels as much like a re-affirmation of the status quo as anything.

 

[sxvnert]

Genuinely curious, where can I find the salaries of all NHL GMs? How does an offer of 4 million/year compare to those of other GMs? Will Kyle get a comparable amount or more if he were employed by another organization?

Cap friendly sometimes has it if you click on their names. Otherwise it hasn't been made public.

 

[Menzinger]

Genuinely curious, where can I find the salaries of all NHL GMs? How does an offer of 4 million/year compare to those of other GMs? Will Kyle get a comparable amount or more if he were employed by another organization?

Most usually aren't public knowledge

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I’m definitely Team Shanahan on this one. Sounded like Kyle Dubas wanted to come back but used the presser to create a pressure point and ask for something else. Negotiating through the media.

I felt the same way. He couldn’t really come back as a corporate leader having made all those personal statements.

Well said.

 

[DarkKnight]

No wonder he was the agents favourite GM, the guy is clueless.

 

[myleafs]

The Dubas Fan Boi Club saw him as an extension of themselves - - the little junior hockey stick boy never actually played hockey because he was too fragile. Tried to build an NHL team like in was a fantasy hockey league team or an NHL 23 video game.

He is a likeable guy and treats people with respect so people feel for him. I like him as a person but not as the gm. Personally I feel like he took over as gm too soon and was thrown into the deep end (The biggest and most important contracts as his first order of business?) Yikes. And thats not on him but on Shanny IMO.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

MLSE let things get to this stage in the first place. They should have made decisions before they had their preferred choice publicly negotiating with them at the last minute

For a big-time company definitely was an amateur move. Not to mention the detailed presser is a very very RARE stance for sure.

 

[francis246]

People really are stretching it out really far for whatever reason. It is really all that simple. This isn't an episode of Succession.

I wouldn’t say I’ve turned on Dubas, I still liked him as a GM. Sad to see him leave and would have preferred he stayed. I just wish he would have just accepted the deal if staying meant that much to him. But like I said I’m another post. I’d love to hear Dubas’ side. Maybe there was a lot of micromanagement that happened in this final year or over the last few years that may have resulted in Dubas wanting more autonomy.

 

[Jozay]

I dont think either side is in the wrong. Its fair and justified for Dubas to question if he wants to be the GM anymore because his family was having a hard time with it and its fair and justified for Shannahan to hear that and move on.

 

[notbias]

Genuine question, what were your expectations of Matthews/Marner/Nylander in their first 3 years with this team ? Playoffs ? Winning a round, multiple rounds ? Those teams over achieved, McDavid has missed how many playoffs ? These guys never have.

After the first year, I'd expect them to see they have the ability to surround the ELCs with some good players, should have been much more aggressive.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Shanny is a master politician and completely buried Dubas, made him look like an absolute fool.

My god what a shitshow.

First, it's extremely worrisome that Shanny was perfectly content re-signing Dubas after the deadline and before seeing/assessing the playoff performance or if they would escape a round. Like, what? You liked his moves at the deadline, great, don't you want to see how they pan out? If the team does come together and play like a team instead of a bunch of entitled individuals (which they didn't, of course)?

Second, this is about money and power plays. Dubas made a huge grab for power, literally and figuratively (leaving org. unsure of his direction), and Shanny reversed it and choked him out with is own power play, including this presser.

Third, can this organization fire management/coaches based on merit or does it always have to be a god damn play. Lou was canned because of Kyle's power grab and threat of being poached. Babcock was let go partially because the players (ie: Marner and Matthews) cried to Kyle and Shanny. Can this organization and its ownership not see what the hell the product is on the ice and the culture that pervades it?

 

[tmlms13]

Kyles agent came back with an offer. It clear he wanted more money/term.

It wasn't money imo, it was power.

 

[AvroArrow]

Kyles agent came back with an offer. It clear he wanted more money/term.

^^^

And was using his family as leverage. He was using the post-season presser as leverage. He was saying he's unsure if he wants to come back or not. We now know it wasn't about whether or not he wants to be GM, but money.

Also let's just assume Kyle was being fully honest. You now have a GM who's not fully invested in the team. A GM who is not fully on board with turning the Maple Leafs into a championship team, he's unsure about what he wants to do or if he even wants to do his job anymore.

 

[sxvnert]

I love how everyone assumes theres no middle ground between an inexperienced stat geek like Dubas and a fossil like LouLam.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Well, we all knew Kyle Dubas was dogshit at negotiating.

He poisoned Marner and Matthews with extra cash…

And now he wants extra cash for accomplishing nothing.

I had a feeling it was also partially him being rotten and why the team is okay and never starting on time.

Why he keeps Keefe. After years of galaxy brain decisions.

Good riddance. Bring in a REAL GM

 

[fahad203]

Like he wanted $5-$7 million

Dude, what have you done to earn anything close to that?
Babcock has three stanly cups, 2 gold and that's why he got paid what he got paid

What did you do to earn 7 million a season

I can bet you anything, he was pushing for the moon because he has another offer somewhere else
He wanted to test this organization....


The crown must come first son, the crown must always come first

 

[myleafs]

It's a pretty limited list I think... anyone know of other experienced free agent GMs:

Bowman (not allowed to work in NHL, would MLSE want that baggage? Would the fans be okay with it?)
Treliving
Botterill (would not be my choice)

Alternative I guess is to keep it in house and look at Pridham?

Everybody keeps saying Pridham but does anybody have any idea what his thoughts are on how to build a team? We just want to hand him the keys cause he knows the staff? What are his actual hockey ideas? Is there any interviews where he talks about that?

 

[fahad203]

I love how everyone assumes theres no middle ground between an inexperienced stat geek like Dubas and a fossil like LouLam.

If its not a nice panda, it must be a dinasaur

If it's not Keefe, it must be Burke, Lou, Nonis

 

[Squiffy]

Paraphrasing:

"Kyle Dubas can blow me."

As funny as this statement is, seems like an awful lot of truth in it. Guy tried to overplay his hand and there was just an, enough is enough, screw you. Like, what happened in that email?

Is this pointing to Shanahan overruling decisions, or otherwise not letting the GM GM? Which, you know, he's the President, he gets that right, but to what level?

That was bizarre.

 

[ToneDog]

Genuinely curious, where can I find the salaries of all NHL GMs? How does an offer of 4 million/year compare to those of other GMs? Will Kyle get a comparable amount or more if he were employed by another organization?

I believe Kyle was earning in the 2m range.

 

[weems]

I really liked what Shanny said about the the playoffs only getting much harder after the first round and that the pressure gets amplified and every single decision means that much more.

The first round is some of the best hockey you'll ever see. All the teams are fresh and hungry but by the time the second round comes along, the play drops with teams starting to become more tired and the injuries start to take effect. By the time you reach the finals every single player is running on fumes and the level of overall play is actually pretty bad and it becomes a battle of will.

Kyle did some good things but also some not so good things and for long stretchs we were pretty extreme on the talent will trump everything side. I think we need to become a more balanced hockey program that can win games against other top teams in many different ways. I think a totally new set or eyes to look at our situation is a good thing as long as they try to encorporate both the new ways of doing things (advancted stats) and some of the old school ways of doing things that have been staples of winning programs forever.

 

[notbias]

I wouldn’t say I’ve turned on Dubas, I still liked him as a GM. Sad to see him leave and would have preferred he stayed. I just wish he would have just accepted the deal if staying meant that much to him. But like I said I’m another post. I’d love to hear Dubas’ side. Maybe there was a lot of micromanagement that happened in this final year or over the last few years that may have resulted in Dubas wanting more autonomy.

If we find out the conditions of the deals, I will pick a side, until then, I think the organization made a bad move, hoping I am wrong.

People keep screaming "money", but we have no clue if that is the case.