Apex Predator
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- Jun 21, 2019
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Does a podcast called The Leaf report
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Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning
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PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
Mirtle made a lot of money due to dubas by selling bs (The Athletic) to average hockey fan he is going to defend dubas no matter what. I actually feel sorry for the folks that pay to subscribe to that trash
The dangle network especially dangle himself made a lot of money by kissing dubas' ass. he got a deal with sportsnet, got a podcast, etc...
no wonder these dubas shills are crying they are potentially losing significant portion of the money they made by being dubas shills. they are trying to milk every last dollar as much as they can before the money train stops IMO
Dreakmur
Registered User
If we can just go on one run where we don't play any good teams, we'll finally prove the process right...
Oh wait, Columbus.... Montreal.... whoops.
Any player that doesn't want to be a Leaf anymore because the GM was canned ... they can be traded.
Just shows they aren't about the Leaf on the sweater.
I didn't like quite a few things Lou did but he wasn't wrong when he told the guys all the time... its not about the name on the back of the jersey. It's about the Leaf on the front.
If you think you're bigger than the team then go away.
Just shows they aren't about the Leaf on the sweater.
I didn't like quite a few things Lou did but he wasn't wrong when he told the guys all the time... its not about the name on the back of the jersey. It's about the Leaf on the front.
If you think you're bigger than the team then go away.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
Who is Willie's comp at $9.5 though? Thats more than Ranta or Kaprizov or Zbinajad. Something right around $9M should be a brick wall for his contract. His best comp has always been Forsberg who just finished year 1 of an $8.5M deal. Give it a tweak for inflation but not a million dollar tweak. Now if Matthews says he wants $14M I would be looking hard for a good trade and then you could pay Willie a bit more. You can overpay a little, but you can't overpay everybody otherwise they are back in the meat grinder. If nobody is giving a hometown discount thats fine but if the goal is a Cup it isn't done with your best players squeezing the market for all they can either. That didn't happen in Tampa or Pittsburgh and nobody in Chicago got paid until after they won a Cup.
Connor McDavid and Drai have no Cups. Being an all star doesn't mean being a champion and while I think Matty is the hardest one to replace he hasn't earned the MVP money for most of his deal. Paying him over a million dollars more than MacKinnon makes no sense unless the goal is not to win Cups but just have good regular seasons. How many high picks have been dealt for players no longer on the team? They have eroded the talent pool in support of irresponsible cap management and have no playoff runs to show for it. Overpayment keeps them in a picks for cap cycle and filling out a roster at the bargain bin.
Having said all that it makes more sense to overpay your #1C if your #2 winger is also demanding to be overpaid. I don't know where that leaves them if Willie says fine, its $9M and AM says $13.5 or nothing. That is a real overpayment for a player that hasn't been that durable and is coming off a weak year. I don't believe Shanny has the stones to deal Matthews unless he has absolutely no other choice though. Somewhere he will have a "thanks for the memory" number with AM but how much more than market value is that? Complicating this is we don't know how much flex mitch will have next year. I guess you could say to his agent "so he'll be looking for pretty much Matthews money right" and see if he gives the strategy away
I agree that at 9.5 there is no comp for Willy; but that didn't stop Willy from getting Pastrnak AAV last time around. He may get something like that from a desperate GM in teh UFA market.
Unless Willy desperately wants to be a maple leaf then he will sing of 8 to 8.5/9 aav. To be seen.
Matthews at 14 AAV at least as far as I am concerned is a big no-no. If he wants that he is free to get it from his new team.
Dreakmur
Registered User
I don't think Dangle is a shill. He just doesn't really understand hockey, so he latched onto an idea he could understand. Much like a lot of posters here, if analytics is the only way you can understand the game, that’s what you’re going to lean on.
I thought so as well, he claimed on twitter yesterday that he doesn't know Dubas at all on a personal level.
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
- Jun 25, 2008
- 12,861
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that's an asinine argument...if the Leafs are good enough, they would have beaten Florida, and not wet the bed in 5 games.
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 24,658
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I swear it seems like people have the memory of a goldfish and only watch one season to comment.
We aren’t blowing it up.
But we are (or should) make changes, not because we lost to Florida but because we lost to Florida, Tampa, Montreal, Columbus, Boston and the way we lose.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
that doesn't stop him from being a dubas shill. Just look at when "The Athletic" actually gained popularity versus when Dubas talked about analytics.
The funny part of it all is that mirtle has no background in mathematics and yet talks about "models" as if he knows wtf he is saying and bunch of people buy the bs he sells.
may be. I don't listen to dangle a lot except when he shows up on my twitter feed when am looking for Leafs news. Based on things he says in general it looks like he was dubas shill.
now whether he believes what he tweets or if he is just playing to the audience i don't know
nuck
Registered User
- Aug 18, 2005
- 11,706
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They lost to the Stanley Cup champions in 2018 so I guess that means they should have preserved that team first
You gotta admit, it's great offseason entertainment. What's interesting too is that the iron curtain protecting Tavares from criticism is gone now. People are really gonna see just how bad this guy is without the media trying to divert criticism to Nylander at every turn.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 82,757
- 61,453
may be. I don't listen to dangle a lot except when he shows up on my twitter feed when am looking for Leafs news. Based on things he says in general it looks like he was dubas shill.
now whether he believes what he tweets or if he is just playing to the audience i don't know
Guys like Chris Johnston and James Mirtle are very pro Dubas. They also happen to be reporters so maybe their day to day interaction is closer to the man and have real relationships.
I've heard CJ get irritable on radio hits re: Dubas and Big 4 critiques in the past. He's invested.
Mirtle likes to remind everyone he's a journalist and not a Leaf fan but overall I think he's very pro Dubas. Siegel fits into this as well, but I think a little less so. They don't seem to be that broadly knowledgeable about the rest of the league, so the reference points they bring up about other NHL teams, managers, players, way of doing things seem to lack context when talking about the Leafs. They also subscribe to the 'Bad Old Days' theory, which posits that if you didn't have Dubas, we would backslide into 2009 and be in a world of JFJ, Burke, Nonis, Carlyle. Doesn't really work that way.
Mirtle and Siegel also seem to be on an analytics hangover, having shifted more towards recognizing size, hitting, intangibles in recent seasons.
Dangle and co. would probably fit into independent media and fan coverage. I think they also have the 'Bad Old Days' take, seem to be critical of the team from a fan POV, but have also been sympathetic to the Leafs and Dubas.
Luke Fox seems like a guy who is more critical of the Leafs project. I've been checking out his stuff a bit more lately.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
it did piss me off that everyone called out Willy but no one was calling out other things especially Tavares
Keefe especially ticked me off when he was always calling out Willy or benching him while Matthews, Marner and especially Tavares kept getting their regular shifts/ice-time no matter how much they sucked. Same with freakin' Holl
Mess
Global Moderator
Interesting take and quite plausible that the Murray deal (which most Leaf fans thought was ridiculous on risk and return) was actually laying the ground work for potential "good will" future employment by taking that back-loaded heavy butt ugly contract off their hands for only a 3rd and 7th when just a few days earlier Buffalo was going to receive Ottawa's 1st ( in a swap of 1st moviing up from #16 to 7th overall) with Murray to take the very same contract with even more retention that Murray blocked on NTC.
That always smelled fishy as if we were missing something here.
PromisedLand
I need more FOOD
Nailed it!
Both CJ and Mirtle are most definite dubas shills. They lack integrity in their journalistic pursuits. Mirtle should also remind people that he got fired by globe and mail for his incompetence as a sport journalist before he reminds people that he is a journalist.
They are in it for themselves, they shill on behalf of the players/dubas because they get inside access. I haven't heard CJ ever put a difficult question to the players or management. They both have vested interests (mostly financial) and seriously lack ethical journalism or competent journalism.
CJ got called out in the comments by few of the guys on twitter which I thought was interesting
Their reference point is always past Leafs management and past Leafs; they hardly compared the current regime to other current regimes in the NHL; which would provide a current context as to how teams are run in NHL at present and how Leafs stack up against other teams at present. Why? because that is what matters. Leafs are competing against other teams/regims that are operating now, not against their past regimes. This to me just shows how incompetent they are as journalists where they cannot even use context properly to paint a narrative that is meaningful.
Mirtle and Seigel's analytics hangover IMO still continues which is hilarious b/c both don't have any background in math especially when they talk about expected BS/60 stats not understanding the limitations of the models they are talking about. I mean you can run a false narrative only so much before you get called out; which they were IMO; before they shifted their focus to size, grit, intangibles etc.
Dangle and co. I don't care for much anyway. I mean its not like they have jobs; they generate their income via podcasts, etc. while none of them have any press credentials so they try to play to the vocal minority audience IMO.
Luke Fox has been decent, I think David Alter is also not bad because they provide information in the context of what is happening in the NHL at present, not necessarily, always living in the Leafs' past. Hopefully they stay the course of doing proper journalism while informing general public and they gain more traction and stay away from becoming shills.
Leaf Fans
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- Sep 29, 2017
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Arzak
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- Mar 27, 2019
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Panthers were 70 seconds away from losing the series. You would think Boston got swept.
I think all that really needs to be said here is if Mirtle and CJ start becoming very knowledgeable about the events at Pittsburgh or Ottawa we’ll know why.
In Dangle’s defense even he finally had enough and was calling for Dubas to be fired after this season. The other two on his podcast not so much though sadly.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 82,757
- 61,453
The notion that the Leafs are competing with their own history as opposed to in a live league of 32 teams always makes me scratch my head. It's a built in kind of complacency like we escaped the past, so how dare we expect even more positive changes. The only alternative is a backslide into oblivion.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Wow, what a Dubas ass licker. I expect that from Granny Dubas or the Dubas social media shills but not from a member of the media. Truly embarrassing and makes him less creditable.
BigGulpsEh
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2017
- 3,148
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Appears dubas wanted to get fired to save face
He doesn't have to walk away from the team and players and look like he gave up on them.
He acts non comittal and gives a few reasons for that (valid reasons to an extent)
Then ups his price last second knowing that it will probably be rejected and lead to leafs moving on.
I was ok with dubas returning but also good with a change at GM
Just don't like the way it all went down at such a crucial time. Very messy
Leafs need a shakeup at all levels
He doesn't have to walk away from the team and players and look like he gave up on them.
He acts non comittal and gives a few reasons for that (valid reasons to an extent)
Then ups his price last second knowing that it will probably be rejected and lead to leafs moving on.
I was ok with dubas returning but also good with a change at GM
Just don't like the way it all went down at such a crucial time. Very messy
Leafs need a shakeup at all levels
If Matthews wont talk or negotiate before his no trade clause kicks in trade him...period. Another leaf bending over the organization needs to stop.
Apex Predator
Registered User
- Jun 21, 2019
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It’s time to stop letting the inmates run the asylum. We want volunteers not hostages!
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