Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[andora]

The more i thought about it reminded me of Christopher Walken re: Poolhall Junkies

“You got this lion, he’s the king of the jungle. Huge mane out to here. He’s laying down under a tree, in the middle of Africa, he’s so big, he’s so hot! He doesn’t wanna move. Now, the little lion cubs they start messin’ with him, bitin’ his tail, bitin’ his ears, he doesn’t do anything. The lioness, she starts messing with him, coming over making trouble, still nothing.

Now the other animals, they notice this, and they start to move in. The jackals, hyenas, they’re barking at him, laughing at him. They nip his toes and eat the food that’s in his domain. They do this and they get closer and closer and bolder and bolder, till one day…

that lion gets up and tears the shit outta everybody, runs like the wind, eats everything in his path, ’cause every once in a while, the lion has to show the jackals who he is.”

 

[7even]

I expect a lot of ugly things will be revealed about the Dubas machine in time as the full audit happens. If he ends up in Ottawa, you have to wonder how this hardball negotiator and boardroom dealer somehow couldn't get an extra 25% retention on a toxic asset like Matt Murray, while MLSE foots the bill on his massive salary next year... such a sweetheart deal for Ottawa.

Also, the coverage between new Ottawa ownership, Dubas and a Pierre Dorion ouster would be pretty spicy.

Yeah? I'm still waiting on the Burke dossier.

Things are rarely so dramatic.

 

[hockeywiz542]

It seems as though former Toronto Maple Leafs GM Kyle Dubas hired and acquired a lot of previous Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds players and other staff for the Leafs and Marlies during his tenure.

Toronto Maple Leafs: Kyle Dubas Ongoing Connections to the Greyhounds

The Soo Greyhounds have a deep connection with the Toronto Maple Leafs - thanks to Kyle Dubas - and Jared McCann is just another example.

editorinleaf.com

Toronto Maple Leafs: Kyle Dubas Ongoing Connections to the Greyhounds

by Michael Alexander

1 year ago

Toronto Maple Leafs and the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds

Dubas was born and raised in the Soo, and his and his families connections to the Soo Greyhounds run deep. His father interned with the team and his grandfather coached the team from 1960 to 1967. As for Kyle himself, he spent his youth in various roles with the team culminating as the team’s general manager from 2011 to 2014.

In one of the first moves made by Dubas as G.M. of the Marlies was hiring Sheldon Keefe to head coach the affiliate as former Head Coach of the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds from 2012 to 2015.

In 2019 as G.M. of the Leafs, Dubas promoted Keefe to coach the big club.

Beyond major titles, there’s a list of other Leafs and Marlies staff who have also plied their trade in the Soo:

• Chris Roque – Amateur Scout (Leafs)

• Victor Carneiro – Amateur Scout (Leafs)

• Richard Rotenberg – Director of High Performance (Leafs)

• Wes Clark – Assistant Director of Player Personnel (Leafs)

• A.J. MacLean – Assistant Coach (Marlies)

• Coach Jon Elkin - Goaltending (Marlies)

In Kyle’s first draft as G.M. of the Toronto Maple Leafs in 2018, Rasmus Sandin (#29) was Dubas’ first pick. Four slots later, Mac Hollowell was selected.

Since then, no Soo Greyhound has been drafted by Dubas, but that hasn’t stopped him from loading up on Soo Greyhounds alumni through other means. In his first major trade with the Leafs in 2019, Dubas picked up Jake Muzzin.

Then in 2020, he grabbed Jack Campbell.

For the 2020-21 season, Wayne Simmonds and Joe Thornton both came aboard.

So, when Dubas made his first splash of the 2021 off-season, it should be no surprise that he scored Jared McCann. (info from Capfriendly.com)

Other Soo Greyhounds Alumni Playing in the NHL

It’s hard to imagine Dubas ever deviating, so here is a list of Soo Greyhounds alumni playing in the NHL that could be in the Leafs fixture sometime in the near future:

• Matt Murray (Senators)

• Tony DeAngelo (Rangers)

• Nick Cousins (Predators)

• Jeff Carter (Penguins)

• Darnell Nurse (Oilers)

• Conor Timmins (Avalanche)

• Robin Lehner (Golden Knights)

• Colin Miller (Sabres)

• Barrett Hayton (Coyotes)

• Nick Ritchie (Bruins)

• Michael Bunting (Coyotes)

If the Leafs are going to wheel and deal with any of these teams, you can be sure Dubas is going to consider picking up one of his own.

 

[Apex Predator]

Yeah? I'm still waiting on the Burke dossier.

Things are rarely so dramatic.

Burke doesn’t leak stuff through media. He’s open and upfront. He doesn’t play that game.

 

[ToneDog]

For reference. Dubas' draft legacy with the Leafs.

 

[MCR74]

I agree that at 9.5 there is no comp for Willy; but that didn't stop Willy from getting Pastrnak AAV last time around. He may get something like that from a desperate GM in teh UFA market.

Unless Willy desperately wants to be a maple leaf then he will sing of 8 to 8.5/9 aav. To be seen.

Matthews at 14 AAV at least as far as I am concerned is a big no-no. If he wants that he is free to get it from his new team.

Agreed. If Matthews gets $14M, you can damn well bet Mitch (and Paul) will want the same. l don't want to see Matthews on another team, but it may not be an option.

 

[PromisedLand]

The notion that the Leafs are competing with their own history as opposed to in a live league of 32 teams always makes me scratch my head. It's a built in kind of complacency like we escaped the past, so how dare we expect even more positive changes. The only alternative is a backslide into oblivion.

Just goes on to show the thinking prowess of the hockey media in Toronto especially mirtle, cj and seigel

 

[PromisedLand]

The more i thought about it reminded me of Christopher Walken re: Poolhall Junkies

“You got this lion, he’s the king of the jungle. Huge mane out to here. He’s laying down under a tree, in the middle of Africa, he’s so big, he’s so hot! He doesn’t wanna move. Now, the little lion cubs they start messin’ with him, bitin’ his tail, bitin’ his ears, he doesn’t do anything. The lioness, she starts messing with him, coming over making trouble, still nothing.

Now the other animals, they notice this, and they start to move in. The jackals, hyenas, they’re barking at him, laughing at him. They nip his toes and eat the food that’s in his domain. They do this and they get closer and closer and bolder and bolder, till one day…

that lion gets up and tears the shit outta everybody, runs like the wind, eats everything in his path, ’cause every once in a while, the lion has to show the jackals who he is.”

A different take

The dude doing the tricks is dubas "oh look how awesome I am";

the dude exposing him is everyone but dubas apologists

 

[weems]

For reference. Dubas' draft legacy with the Leafs.

View attachment 711163

I've been critical of Dubas the last year or so and think it was time for a change but I actually don't mind the drafting.

I think there's a handful of NHL'ers in there, Knies is legit and Amirov was just extremely poor luck.

The drafting definitely didn't provide much help for our team the past few seasons but think it's still too early to get a accurate read.

It will be very interesting to see how much our drafting potentially changes with a new GM in charge.

 

[Burnie97]

Not only that, most players that do want to be Leafs can also be traded.

True. There's a few that should be good candidates regardless.

 

[Kaladin]

For reference. Dubas' draft legacy with the Leafs.

View attachment 711163

It's interesting his best draft was the one that was only a month after he got the GM job. One would suspect that draft still had a lot of Lou's imprint on it.

 

[PromisedLand]

It's interesting his best draft was the one that was only a month after he got the GM job. One would suspect that draft still had a lot of Lou's imprint on it.

Hunter

 

[Antropovsky]

Here is a great post by "editor and leaf", where the author lists all the SOO employees and players Dubas had hired and signed as a GM (at the time which was before Bunting and Ritchie) The author later posted a listed of SOO players in the NHL that Dubas had yet to go after that may be on Dubas list. Since he posted, Dubas has signed 4 players from that list

Makes me believe that Dubas really doesnt have good pro scouting, and advanced stats confidence because certainly the SOO arent the only junior team with good players/employees.

It’s hard to imagine Dubas ever deviating, so here is a list of Soo Greyhounds alumni playing in the NHL that could be in the Leafs fixture sometime in the near future:

• Matt Murray (Senators)
• Tony DeAngelo (Rangers)
• Nick Cousins (Predators)
• Jeff Carter (Penguins)
• Darnell Nurse (Oilers)
• Conor Timmins (Avalanche)
• Robin Lehner (Golden Knights)
• Colin Miller (Sabres)
• Barrett Hayton (Coyotes)
• Nick Ritchie (Bruins)
• Michael Bunting (Coyotes)

If the Leafs are going to wheel and deal with any of these teams, you can be sure Dubas is going to consider picking up one of his own.

 

[weems]

It's interesting his best draft was the one that was only a month after he got the GM job. One would suspect that draft still had a lot of Lou's imprint on it.

2020 was a strong draft.
Amirov (if healthy), Niemela, Hirvonen, Artur, Villenueve, Tverberg could all be NHL'ers.

Tverberg was one of the best picks in the entire draft value wise.

 

[rocketman588]

As much as I believe he's being shady in a lot of this I don't think Dubas intentionally timed the no moves with his contract because when he signed them he would have assumed they he would have been resigned last year

 

[SeaOfBlue]

At the end of the day I truly think Shanahan didn't want Dubas back nor did Dubas really want to be here. He was most likely told you're back but need to fire Keefe and trade a core piece.

Best way to not do that?

Ask for more money and other concessions that you know you're not gonna get.

Case closed.

I am not sure you offer a 5-year extension to a guy if you did not want him back. Unless that came from above Shanny's head. If that is the case, why is Shanny even here? This kind of decision is one of his core responsibilities. So I think there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Shanny planned on Dubas coming back and Dubas was the one who was pushing away.

The murkier part is from Dubas' perspective, as to why he was pushing away. I do not think it was money, especially since Shanny said in his press conference that it was not because of money.

This is speculation, but there is a lot of smoke around it being about power/control. I do not think Dubas necessarily wanted to leave Toronto purely because it was "too stressful" or how it impacted his family. If it really got to that breaking point, he probably wouldn't have negotiated at all. But I think it did get to the point where he thought "if I do not get what I want, then it is not worth it for me or my family to continue". Then he sent back an offer which reflected what he wanted to make it worth it for himself (both in terms of power/control and how he should be compensated accordingly), and Shanny said "no thanks".

Maybe it is more dramatic than that, but I am going to go with Occam's Razor on this one.

 

[All Mod Cons]

didn't you know shanahan threatened dubas to protect Holl in the expansion draft, and told keefe to play matthews-marner together eventhough they sucked together and forced kerfoot in the line up.

shanahan is the one to blame for everything

I bet Lou and Mike are relieved. It's now all Brendan's fault. We're running out of guy's not named Kyle to place the blame.

 

[MCR74]

Here is a great post by "editor and leaf", where the author lists all the SOO employees and players Dubas had hired and signed as a GM (at the time which was before Bunting and Ritchie) The author later posted a listed of SOO players in the NHL that Dubas had yet to go after that may be on Dubas list. Since he posted, Dubas has signed 4 players from that list

Makes me believe that Dubas really doesnt have good pro scouting, and advanced stats confidence because certainly the SOO arent the only junior team with good players/employees.

It’s hard to imagine Dubas ever deviating, so here is a list of Soo Greyhounds alumni playing in the NHL that could be in the Leafs fixture sometime in the near future:

• Matt Murray (Senators)
• Tony DeAngelo (Rangers)
• Nick Cousins (Predators)
• Jeff Carter (Penguins)
• Darnell Nurse (Oilers)
• Conor Timmins (Avalanche)
• Robin Lehner (Golden Knights)
• Colin Miller (Sabres)
• Barrett Hayton (Coyotes)
• Nick Ritchie (Bruins)
• Michael Bunting (Coyotes)

If the Leafs are going to wheel and deal with any of these teams, you can be sure Dubas is going to consider picking up one of his own.

Whichever NHL club hires Dubas better be aware of this fact.

 

[rumman]

Due to the course corrections that need to be made (new coach, at least one of core 4 out) it is likely that we will take a step back this upcoming season. The Dubasites will be jumping with glee, because they're not Leafs' Fans.

Not if we make the playoffs imo…….

 

[hamzarocks]

2020 was a strong draft.
Amirov (if healthy), Niemela, Hirvonen, Artur, Villenueve, Tverberg could all be NHL'ers.

Tverberg was one of the best picks in the entire draft value wise.

Dude Tverberg is a 5'11 forward who doesn't bring grit and size and wasn't a productive player in the NCAA (never had a pt/game season).

How many late prospects go on to become tangible contributors in the NHL if they can't become even ppg as a 3rd year in NCAA?

I don't see what makes him much different than Dakota Johsua (2014 draft) or Domnic Tonianto (2012 draft) level prospect. Both those guys were 5th rounders, while Tverberg is a few rounds later at 7th

His ceiling is a 11th best forward on the team and it will likely take another 2-3 years before he gives us that.

Niemela and Hirvonen are potential top 4D/Top 9 forwards from 2020. Amirov was trending to be a 2nd - 3rd liner prior to getting diagnosed.

His best drafts are 2018 and potentially 2022 as that KHL kid looks to have big boom potential

 

[rumman]

Is the DDL still trying to take others down with them? They fired my guy, so I hope they all get fired as well, type of thing?

Okay I’ve been away for awhile, what exactly is the DDL and DDC I keep seeing here……..

 

[weems]

Dude Tverberg is a 5'11 forward who doesn't bring grit and size and wasn't a productive player in the NCAA (never had a pt/game season).

How many late prospects go on to become tangible contributors in the NHL if they can't become even ppg as a 3rd year in NCAA?

I don't see what makes him much different than Dakota Johsua (2014 draft) or Domnic Tonianto (2012 draft) level prospect. Both those guys were 5th rounders, while Tverberg is a few rounds later at 7th

His ceiling is a 11th best forward on the team and it will likely take another 2-3 years before he gives us that.

Niemela and Hirvonen are potential top 4D/Top 9 forwards from 2020. Amirov was trending to be a 2nd - 3rd liner prior to getting diagnosed.

His best drafts are 2018 and potentially 2022 as that KHL kid looks to have big boom potential

I stopped reading when you said Tverberg doesn't bring grit.

Talk about not having a clue about a players skillset.

 

[rumman]

Permission to interview him is denied. Shanny put the teams on notice that he is acting GM. It's hard to say who the front runner is tbh. They need to get working on these contracts immediately (Or trades)

Nylander was denied to play for Sweden. That means things are in play right now.

Nice to know they’re hard at it, too bad for Sweden, I’m sure they’ll miss Willies elite zone entries……..

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I stopped reading when you said Tverberg doesn't bring grit.

Talk about not having a clue about a players skillset.

Oh there is far worse in this thread...

 

[rocketman588]

Mirtle made a lot of money due to dubas by selling bs (The Athletic) to average hockey fan he is going to defend dubas no matter what. I actually feel sorry for the folks that pay to subscribe to that trash

The dangle network especially dangle himself made a lot of money by kissing dubas' ass. he got a deal with sportsnet, got a podcast, etc...

no wonder these dubas shills are crying they are potentially losing significant portion of the money they made by being dubas shills. they are trying to milk every last dollar as much as they can before the money train stops IMO

I don't think Steve himself owes his job to Dubas. Hilariously he gets better views when we lose. The disconnect comes because they employ Johnston/have him as an insider so they have to keep somewhat more quiet.

Even prior to this you could tell he wanted to say fire Dubas a little. But Adam was keeping him from going unhinged