Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[notbias]

Bingo!

Simple critical thinking, using reason and logic for understanding and then decisions is not that hard.

I really blame the ON education system. The STEM fields are not getting any while the entitlement, me first, i am awesome, BS is flourishing in the schools.

Critical thinking is just thrown out the door, no wonder, population as a whole especially in Toronto is becoming dumber and dumber. Its sad really

Critical thinking!

The self serving, country club culture is not going to be tolerated anymore in the MLSE is the signal that I am getting.

Matthews signed his ELC when Lou was here, then he signed his next contract with dubas. He will sign a new contract with a new GM anyway whether its with the Leafs or somewhere else.

We needed a culture shift, and we just got it IMO.

Now that the person who runs the operations and oversees everything is out of the organization, the culture will shift... oh wait, he is still here? Critical thinking is on display again!

 

[geo25]

Getting it done is important. I hope it happens quick as well.

Someone said in the other thread said that Matthews won't negotiation or talk numbers until his NMC kicks in. I don't know if thats true though.

Then, if true, time to trade him asap...the Leafs dont need anymore players holding a gun to ownership's heads..
The so called Blue & White disease as Burke coined it still persists...are we really cursed or do these players smell the miney in TO & want as much if it as they can get?

If Gary can open doors that nobody else can, why not go for it. I am thinking Doug Armstrong who I wanted the last time we were looking for a GM and he was available.

Bettman's f##cked us enough...throw us a bone & let The guy work...

 

[Pinkcat]

I know a lot of people are thinking that AM will want to bolt because Dubas is no longer the GM....I just think that a possibility is that if the new GM comes in and says we are going to go with a heavier, tougher lineup...it might actually be something AM wants. Right now the stars are expected to be both talented and creative whilst being tough because we don't have any real pricks on the team. Maybe AM sees it as a relief that he won't be ragdolled by other teams because we have guys that are more bite than bark (anti-Bunting's). I know if I didn't like rough play I sure as hell would rather have guys who did like it on my team doing it for me. It is kind of stupid that the GM never thought that the core 4 were never going to become Messier's etc...

Call me crazy if you like but I actually believe that Mathews and McDavid want to win a cup together, in Toronto.

 

[PromisedLand]

Im curious why does it mean the relationship broke down versus shanahan being objective

The timeline is a bit off though shanny had his change on monday and dubas on thuraday said i am in but with this instead

God i would love to read that email

Let me preface by saying I have no knowledge of the event I am just guessing.

My guess is that Dubas made a power move. He tried to go after Shanny's job, he probably thought that he will have the boards support; so he will either undermine Shanny with Shanny still remaining President OR Shanny may quit giving full power to Dubas.

Dubas' game backfired when board supported Shanny; Shanny saw through the charade and moved on.

Why do I believe this?
- All the anti Shanny articles written especially by Dubas shills
- Earlier in the year the same Dubas shills were talking about a rift between Dubas and Shanny
- After Shanny canned Dubas; the same Dubas shills are painting a doom-gloom scenario as if Dubas was the best thing ever since sliced bread and there aren't other teams that operate in NHL that have GMs; apparently Dubas is the only GM ever LOL
- Same Dubas shills are now saying Shanny blocked trades that would have made team better in the past; etc. like wtf, why was this story not available in the past but just all of a sudden when dubas got ShanaCanned this is now a story?

 

[thewave]

Let me preface by saying I have no knowledge of the event I am just guessing.

My guess is that Dubas made a power move. He tried to go after Shanny's job, he probably thought that he will have the boards support; so he will either undermine Shanny with Shanny still remaining President OR Shanny may quite giving full power to Dubas.

Dubas' game backfired when board supported Shanny; Shanny saw through the charade and moved on.

Why do I believe this?
- All the anti Shanny articles written especially by Dubas shills
- Earlier in the year the same Dubas shills were talking about a rift between Dubas and Shanny
- After Shanny canned Dubas; the same Dubas shills are painting a doom-gloom scenario as if Dubas was the best thing ever since sliced bread and there aren't other teams that operate in NHL that have GMs; apparently Dubas is the only GM ever LOL
- Same Dubas shills are not saying Shanny blocked trades that would have made team better in the past; etc. like wtf, why was this story not available in the past but just all of a sudden when dubas got ShanaCanned this is no story?

Can you imagine this is actually all a conspiracy with multiple parties involved? Wouldn't that just be the ultimate Leafy thing ever? I mean. it's all starting to add up too, like, this is some twilight zone shit lol.

 

[Mess]

I don't think it would be great for the Leafs, but I see it happening regardless. GMs and front office staff will often make decisions that benefit themselves over the team

I don't see Matthews looking to give the team a cheaper deal as they're likely removing the staff and potentially teammates that he likes.

I agree the Matthews contract length and NMC gave all control to the player and put us in this position and Leafs have the option now of overpaying again to keep the asset or let him walk away for free and Leafs lose their cornerstone player. Pick your poison here as both might be bad for business and cup competitiveness with or without him.

However, I don't believe this is a Shanny problem in isolation now, as even if Dubas were still here and making the call he would face the very same pressure points of pay up what AM wants or walk away situation. There was no discount on the previous deal in fact the opposite might be argued as true as one of the NHLs richest. So no reason to expect any hometown discount regardless of GM this time round either. IMO

As you correctly pointed out GMs will do what it is in their best interest in a CYA move, so isn't it convenient that Dubas 5 year contract nearly overlapped the 5 year only deal he secured for Matthews, and now even if he wasn't extended and let go, it would become someone else's problem and not his? .. Dubas only needed Matthews on a 5 year bridge deal and gave him AAV and term and front-loaded with full NMC (everything he wanted) just to get him secured Long Enough while he was also employed as GM, needing Matthews productivity for his own next contract extention. That was far from in the best interest of the team on term and AAV and now NMC.

If Dubas had received his new deal he wanted now, then his future financially would have been secured, even if Matthews walks away as a UFA and MLSE says were not willing to meet AM contract demands (as they control the final $$ purse-string decisions), then KD is off the hook for not re-signing him, and ALL the blame for his loss on ownership not management. Dubas set up a pitfall trap for the organization where only he could benefit from financially as well as AM.

 

[andora]

Let me preface by saying I have no knowledge of the event I am just guessing.

My guess is that Dubas made a power move. He tried to go after Shanny's job, he probably thought that he will have the boards support; so he will either undermine Shanny with Shanny still remaining President OR Shanny may quite giving full power to Dubas.

Dubas' game backfired when board supported Shanny; Shanny saw through the charade and moved on.

Why do I believe this?
- All the anti Shanny articles written especially by Dubas shills
- Earlier in the year the same Dubas shills were talking about a rift between Dubas and Shanny
- After Shanny canned Dubas; the same Dubas shills are painting a doom-gloom scenario as if Dubas was the best thing ever since sliced bread and there aren't other teams that operate in NHL that have GMs; apparently Dubas is the only GM ever LOL
- Same Dubas shills are not saying Shanny blocked trades that would have made team better in the past; etc. like wtf, why was this story not available in the past but just all of a sudden when dubas got ShanaCanned this is no story?

Yeah i can see the theory.. and at the end of the day at executive level they all play games

I am trying not to go too deep in the weeds with all this although the story and this thread have been fascinating..

I was fine with him coming back due to continuity and this offseason however the things i want to happen (coach and trade marner) i always wondered if he had the guts to do it.. which kept me on the fence indefinitely. I just want to see a good next step to follow up the dubas one..

This could be a trade, a leaked report of matthews close to deal a leaked report of marner trade.. a reassuring quote from matthews or nylander or a positive gm hire

It is all about the next steps.. but as so many say you can only be the best when you let yourself be ubcomfortable - i am uncomfortable right now but excited

 

[PromisedLand]

Can you imagine this is actually all a conspiracy with multiple parties involved? Wouldn't that just be the ultimate Leafy thing ever? I mean. it's all starting to add up too, like, this is some twilight zone shit lol.

I wouldn't put this past dubas and dubas shills.

IMO it was pretty evident how dubas sabotaged babcock, then had his shills write character assassination pieces on babs.

then when babcock was trying to defend his position the only interview he ever gave was to the lady on the CBC (to my best recollection). Just goes on to show how dubas operates. I mean look at his freakin' career. Nepotism written all over it.

I mean at least that is my pov. Obviously I don't have any proof, all I got is some stories, some historical events and trying to piece it together as to what it means....

 

[Da Mash]

A lot of teams ask for advice. Habs just did it to get their GM.

We have cap space and young guys filling in roles like Knies and McMann . Holmberg will be our 4th line centre. Holl and Kerfoot are gone which is a plus

Not sure what the panic is . Our star players will sign and we have two yrs of Tavares contract.

We will probably be another 100 pt team.

I would like to see another young GM maybe guy from Carolina but If we get Calgary’s old GM….I don’t think that will be too bad either.

I’m still disappointed in seeing Dubas go but Oh well….can’t change it so let’s move on.

We have a very good team with some good prospects…a first rd pick and we got rid of some dead weight.

Don’t waste cap dollars on old vets looking for a retirement package (ROR) ….never moves the needle.

If we trade Marner or Nylander let’s hope it’s for some other star younger player with potential.

I’m not a big fan of Shanny but hopefully he makes a sound decision. We are the mecca of hockey….we will not be short of applicants.

Our biggest deterrent is the Toronto media. Most of them are hacks trying to cause a stir. We can not even have a favourable broadcast during games.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yeah i can see the theory.. and at the end of the day at executive level they all play games

I am trying not to go too deep in the weeds with all this although the story and this thread have been fascinating..

I was fine with him coming back due to continuity and this offseason however the things i want to happen (coach and trade marner) i always wondered if he had the guts to do it.. which kept me on the fence indefinitely. I just want to see a good next step to follow up the dubas one..

This could be a trade, a leaked report of matthews close to deal a leaked report of marner trade.. a reassuring quote from matthews or nylander or a positive gm hire

It is all about the next steps.. but as so many say you can only be the best when you let yourself be ubcomfortable - i am uncomfortable right now but excited

I am with you man. No point in crying, bitching and moaning about spilled milk. Time to move forward

Although IMO it wasn't spilled milk; it was the best thing that has happened to the Leafs in a while

 

[thewave]

I wouldn't put this past dubas and dubas shills.

IMO it was pretty evident how dubas sabotaged babcock, then had his shills write character assassination pieces on babs.

then when babcock was trying to defend his position the only interview he ever gave was to the lady on the CBC (to my best recollection). Just goes on to show how dubas operates. I mean look at his freakin' career. Nepotism written all over it.

I mean at least that is my pov. Obviously I don't have any proof, all I got is some stories, some historical events and trying to piece it together as to what it means....

Hey PromisedLand, what the heck is going on here? HFboards is now Scooby Doo cracking the case wide open? This is your Leafs nation in 2023 baby! Wooooooooooo I mean rut roh!

 

[mikeyz]

Ohhh here we go! LMFAO.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Ohhh here we go! LMFAO.

same thing every year - yeah but we barely lost to....

 

[thewave]

same thing every year - yeah but we barely lost to....

They miss the point that we are supposed to be the team in the other team that goes to the cups shoes. It's amazing how they miss that logic.

 

[Leafs1991]

Most of those NHL games played are by Sean Durzi who never played for the Leafs.

So? Still drafted by Toronto and Dubas. Clearly shows that Dubas saw something in the player and was right.

Plus, there are more players from the 2019/2020 draft looking like they may be successful NHLers

 

[Stephen]

Let me preface by saying I have no knowledge of the event I am just guessing.

My guess is that Dubas made a power move. He tried to go after Shanny's job, he probably thought that he will have the boards support; so he will either undermine Shanny with Shanny still remaining President OR Shanny may quite giving full power to Dubas.

Dubas' game backfired when board supported Shanny; Shanny saw through the charade and moved on.

Why do I believe this?
- All the anti Shanny articles written especially by Dubas shills
- Earlier in the year the same Dubas shills were talking about a rift between Dubas and Shanny
- After Shanny canned Dubas; the same Dubas shills are painting a doom-gloom scenario as if Dubas was the best thing ever since sliced bread and there aren't other teams that operate in NHL that have GMs; apparently Dubas is the only GM ever LOL
- Same Dubas shills are now saying Shanny blocked trades that would have made team better in the past; etc. like wtf, why was this story not available in the past but just all of a sudden when dubas got ShanaCanned this is now a story?

I would also expect The Athletic and the Dangle network to be somewhat negative about the new GM candidates, citing poor drafting records, highlighting lost trades, dismissive of the teams they recently managed and also pump up the Matthews contractual uncertainty as the looming issue to show how we're screwed under new Shanagement.

 

[ShaneFalco]

They miss the point that we are supposed to be the team in the other team that goes to the cups shoes. It's amazing how they miss that logic.

It's the participation era - trying and caring matters. Winning - well they're trying

 

[andora]

I am with you man. No point in crying, bitching and moaning about spilled milk. Time to move forward

Although IMO it wasn't spilled milk; it was the best thing that has happened to the Leafs in a while

I view the shock and change more beneficial than dubas the gm gone

Things like this can work like turning the lights on in the bar after closing and seeing what scurries away

There will be some uglies uncovered from players and staff.. and they can f*** off too

One thing you have said multiples is that end of day.. black and white it needs to be about the logo on the front. That is it.. if you say that every morning before going to work it should work out

Any player that isnt all in can go.. no matter their f***en talent.. i dont care if the can deke for days - if you arent in for the logo.. good luck

 

[Stephen]

I view the shock and change more beneficial than dubas the gm gone

Things like this can work like turning the lights on in the bar after closing and seeing what scurries away

There will be some uglies uncovered from players and staff.. and they can f*** off too

One thing you have said multiples is that end of day.. black and white it needs to be about the logo on the front. That is it.. if you say that every morning before going to work it should work out

Any player that isnt all in can go.. no matter their f***en talent.. i dont care if the can deke for days - if you arent in for the logo.. good luck

I expect a lot of ugly things will be revealed about the Dubas machine in time as the full audit happens. If he ends up in Ottawa, you have to wonder how this hardball negotiator and boardroom dealer somehow couldn't get an extra 25% retention on a toxic asset like Matt Murray, while MLSE foots the bill on his massive salary next year... such a sweetheart deal for Ottawa.

Also, the coverage between new Ottawa ownership, Dubas and a Pierre Dorion ouster would be pretty spicy.

 

[nuck]

Nylander will be seeking a hefty pay raise IMO. Just using some historical evidence, Matthews signed asap he didn't wait for the year to be over so I have more hope that Matthews situation can be done quickly one way or another given his history.

Nylander and Marner both waited for the year to end before they negotiated new contracts; if we assume that Willy may want to do the same then we can't force Willy. Nylander may want to explore the UFA market who knows. The question then becomes is what is the value that other teams might put on Nylander? And can Leafs make that offer to him? Nylander should be between 8.5 to 9.5 AAV; but if someone is offering him 11 AAV he might go there.

Nylander hasn't gone to play for sweden this year i.e. he has broken the past pattern; now whether it is because Leafs did not give him permission or did he do it independetnly i don't know so thats why i put nylander as 3rd but I don't have an issue if we do Willy/Marner at the same time.

Who is Willie's comp at $9.5 though? Thats more than Ranta or Kaprizov or Zbinajad. Something right around $9M should be a brick wall for his contract. His best comp has always been Forsberg who just finished year 1 of an $8.5M deal. Give it a tweak for inflation but not a million dollar tweak. Now if Matthews says he wants $14M I would be looking hard for a good trade and then you could pay Willie a bit more. You can overpay a little, but you can't overpay everybody otherwise they are back in the meat grinder. If nobody is giving a hometown discount thats fine but if the goal is a Cup it isn't done with your best players squeezing the market for all they can either. That didn't happen in Tampa or Pittsburgh and nobody in Chicago got paid until after they won a Cup.

Connor McDavid and Drai have no Cups. Being an all star doesn't mean being a champion and while I think Matty is the hardest one to replace he hasn't earned the MVP money for most of his deal. Paying him over a million dollars more than MacKinnon makes no sense unless the goal is not to win Cups but just have good regular seasons. How many high picks have been dealt for players no longer on the team? They have eroded the talent pool in support of irresponsible cap management and have no playoff runs to show for it. Overpayment keeps them in a picks for cap cycle and filling out a roster at the bargain bin.

Having said all that it makes more sense to overpay your #1C if your #2 winger is also demanding to be overpaid. I don't know where that leaves them if Willie says fine, its $9M and AM says $13.5 or nothing. That is a real overpayment for a player that hasn't been that durable and is coming off a weak year. I don't believe Shanny has the stones to deal Matthews unless he has absolutely no other choice though. Somewhere he will have a "thanks for the memory" number with AM but how much more than market value is that? Complicating this is we don't know how much flex Mitch will have next year. I guess you could say to his agent "so he'll be looking for pretty much Matthews money right" and see if he gives the strategy away

 

[IPS]

They miss the point that we are supposed to be the team in the other team that goes to the cups shoes. It's amazing how they miss that logic.

The Dubie fanboy - stockholm syndrome group of this fanbase basically just memory-hole all the superstars underperforming and just go all in on us getting "goalie'd".

They literally become fans of the team that eliminated the Leafs all in the name of defending Dubie. Zeke was literally cheering for the Montreal Canadiens after they eliminated the Leafs in 2021.

Edit: speaking of memory holing, remember the Tampa series this year? - the series we got outplayed 5/6 games and really had no business winning? Does this factor at all into Mr. Kevin the twitter cheerleader's hypothesis?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Let me preface by saying I have no knowledge of the event I am just guessing.

My guess is that Dubas made a power move. He tried to go after Shanny's job, he probably thought that he will have the boards support; so he will either undermine Shanny with Shanny still remaining President OR Shanny may quit giving full power to Dubas.

Dubas' game backfired when board supported Shanny; Shanny saw through the charade and moved on.

Why do I believe this?
- All the anti Shanny articles written especially by Dubas shills
- Earlier in the year the same Dubas shills were talking about a rift between Dubas and Shanny
- After Shanny canned Dubas; the same Dubas shills are painting a doom-gloom scenario as if Dubas was the best thing ever since sliced bread and there aren't other teams that operate in NHL that have GMs; apparently Dubas is the only GM ever LOL
- Same Dubas shills are now saying Shanny blocked trades that would have made team better in the past; etc. like wtf, why was this story not available in the past but just all of a sudden when dubas got ShanaCanned this is now a story?

This.

 

[andora]

The Dubie fanboy - stockholm syndrome group of this fanbase basically just memory-hole all the superstars underperforming and just go all in on us getting "goalie'd".

They literally become fans of the team that eliminated the Leafs all in the name of defending Dubie. Zeke was literally cheering for the Montreal Canadiens after they eliminated the Leafs in 2021.

What happened to zeke

 

[nuck]

I know a lot of people are thinking that AM will want to bolt because Dubas is no longer the GM....I just think that a possibility is that if the new GM comes in and says we are going to go with a heavier, tougher lineup...it might actually be something AM wants. Right now the stars are expected to be both talented and creative whilst being tough because we don't have any real pricks on the team. Maybe AM sees it as a relief that he won't be ragdolled by other teams because we have guys that are more bite than bark (anti-Bunting's). I know if I didn't like rough play I sure as hell would rather have guys who did like it on my team doing it for me. It is kind of stupid that the GM never thought that the core 4 were never going to become Messier's etc...

I think Matty is a lot tighter with Marner and some of his other team mates than with the GM. He also has no warm and fuzzy relationships with other teams management so it doesn't make much sense that would be the driving factor IMO. Hey the Biebs is his bro right where else can he get that?

 

[IPS]

What happened to zeke

He's a smart man. I think he saw the writing on the wall about Dubas not lasting much longer in Toronto and he bailed on the persona.