Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Clark4Ever]

The rumour is MLSE wanted dubas to fire keefe and trade atleast one core player. Dubas countered with a financial package including full autonomy which was his way of getting out of firing keefe and or changing the core. Dubas was never firing keefe ever or trading any of the 4 core guys, he fell on his sword.

Makes sense.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

You seem to want to force the situation that one has to be in the middle of the journey. Like I said, I wouldn't have gone for the journey without checking on which car is the best car. Epiphany it seems is something that you had, I on the other hand had always been clear about how the journey should have began always

Yes Shanahan should have had the foresight and never hired dubas as a GM or should have canned him at least after the habs series. Rewarding incompetence is something I do not support, and panic is not my style no matter how much dubas shills paint the doom and gloom scenario whether on the boards, on twitter or the so called sports journalists who have zero integrity when it comes to journalism. But hey.... once again its just me.... valuation incompetence and doing things just for the sake of doing things and preaching to the world "panic scenario lets panic because -> reasons" seems more like a hollywood plot than a thoughtful actionable behavior that lays the foundation of a better tomorrow

P.S. Leafs navigated without a GM before when they fired Nonis and drafted Nylander and traded Kessel. Bending over backwards to a guy with zero integrity that says i don't want the job, then doesn't have any discussions and then sends in a new financial package to leverage the situation that he himself created (NMCs and what not); that's they guy you wanted to continue? really? You may want to reward incompetence and dishonesty but I'd prefer the organization as a whole stay away from such an individual.

Leafs are going to be fine. In fact, they are going to be better for it! The culture shift has already begun with what Shanahan did to Dubas. "It is about the logo not about you Dubas "

My man the entire situation and scenario I presented from the beginning is that we are on route and on a time crunch. Don't know why you can't move past that part, it's literally at the first part of my quote on a deadline, and you are stuck on the car part.

You are saying panic is not your style that's fine, but to run a business you don't just make decisions of such ilk on a whim that is why I even wrote what I wrote. That is where we as fans should be concerned. This is not about journalism or the integrity of their jobs, this is coming from a son of a journalist and a person who had to deal with media and business quite often and knew the inner sides of it Also MLSE's iron curtain has been a thing for a solid while since Lou has been there and has been maintained since Shanny has been the president, so it's funny why I see people talk about it as they have in with them, man the marketing department can't even squeak in easily to the leafs talk and they even work with them! Do you remember Davidson getting ripped up by Dubas and then having to apologize in GM's meeting, Governors and boards were PISSED, it's a code between GMs, only beat reporters in smaller markets get a bit more lee-way due to their size of the market and even then it's rare! I think the closest is likely Rutherford in St. Louis.

Feels like you are just kind of making it about it's a glorious day and that'll be fine, great you are feeling confident but I can tell you the board of directors isn't that fine atm I am not saying you should panic nor you should ask chaos but to think everything is fine is kind of a fooey when Shanny himself is sweating atm. It's been almost 10 years and so far what has happened under Shanny?

Anyways this is just going in circles at the moment since it's just been stuck at one point of my scenario, let's just leave it at I hope we get a good GM soon!

 

[Albz]

What you guys think about Dean Lombardi? He did a good job in LA the time he was there

 

[3blizzard4]

If you think about it, it seems that Dubas may have clashed with all of Lou, Hunter, Babcock and eventually Shanahan.

His modus operandi was to surround himself with ex-Soo Greyhound personnel that would "owe" him.

Perhaps Kyle has trouble playing with others?

This is how I feel as well.

 

[3blizzard4]

Shanahan actually did tho, he inherited a team that never even sniffed the playoffs other than one season in a shortened year and turned them into a guaranteed playoff team, actually, a guaranteed 100+ point team every year.

It’s really one free agent signing in JT and three years of drafting AM, Marner and Nylander.

 

[GoonieFace]

you've said this no less than 3 times on this page alone. We get it. Enjoy Brad Travlivig..

So it’s clear than?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

It really is bizarre. I can understand others (media, fans) liking Dubas and thinking he's the best of the current available crop (which I personally disagree with) but the way he's being elevated as the team's only hope as if he guided them to dynasty is very strange.

I'll be just as upset if MLSE hires a GM that comes in and sucks for the next 5 years and wins nothing. But guess what? Dubas didn't win anything meaningful either. One single playoff round. His whole tenure was doing less with more. If the new guy stinks it doesn't mean Dubas suddenly did well... It means they both failed.

As for any of the core having issue with Dubas being let go, they can follow him out the door because they haven't won anything either.

Due to the course corrections that need to be made (new coach, at least one of core 4 out) it is likely that we will take a step back this upcoming season. The Dubasites will be jumping with glee, because they're not Leafs' Fans.

 

[thewave]

My man the entire situation and scenario I presented from the beginning is that we are on route and on a time crunch. Don't know why you can't move past that part, it's literally at the first part of my quote on a deadline, and you are stuck on the car part.

You are saying panic is not your style that's fine, but to run a business you don't just make decisions of such ilk on a whim that is why I even wrote what I wrote. That is where we as fans should be concerned. This is not about journalism or the integrity of their jobs, this is coming from a son of a journalist and a person who had to deal with media and business quite often and knew the inner sides of it Also MLSE's iron curtain has been a thing for a solid while since Lou has been there and has been maintained since Shanny has been the president, so it's funny why I see people talk about it as they have in with them, man the marketing department can't even squeak in easily to the leafs talk and they even work with them! Do you remember Davidson getting ripped up by Dubas and then having to apologize in GM's meeting, Governors and boards were PISSED, it's a code between GMs, only beat reporters in smaller markets get a bit more lee-way due to their size of the market and even then it's rare! I think the closest is likely Rutherford in St. Louis.

Feels like you are just kind of making it about it's a glorious day and that'll be fine, great you are feeling confident but I can tell you the board of directors isn't that fine atm I am not saying you should panic nor you should ask chaos but to think everything is fine is kind of a fooey when Shanny himself is sweating atm. It's been almost 10 years and so far what has happened under Shanny?

Anyways this is just going in circles at the moment since it's just been stuck at one point of my scenario, let's just leave it at I hope we get a good GM soon!

We have good GM right now. Pridham is on the job, it's business as usual I imagine.

 

[AllHeartNoSkill]

Maybe he was finally shipping Holl out of town

I stand corrected. Well put.

 

[mehavecable]

The amount of boomers pissing themselves with happiness right now is truly heartwarming, I haven’t seen you boys this upbeat since they came out with generic Viagra.

Ageism.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

We have good GM right now. Pridham is on the job, it's business as usual I imagine.

He's not the front runner and there isnt a good feel going on. He is competent and will do what is asked but also is being asked by others for interviews so there is conflict of interest potentially at play along with survivors guilt in corporate restructuring situation.

The main plan is to find a new head to run things over smoothly and ASAP

 

[PromisedLand]

My man the entire situation and scenario I presented from the beginning is that we are on route and on a time crunch. Don't know why you can't move past that part, it's literally at the first part of my quote on a deadline, and you are stuck on the car part.

You are saying panic is not your style that's fine, but to run a business you don't just make decisions of such ilk on a whim that is why I even wrote what I wrote. That is where we as fans should be concerned. This is not about journalism or the integrity of their jobs, this is coming from a son of a journalist and a person who had to deal with media and business quite often and knew the inner sides of it Also MLSE's iron curtain has been a thing for a solid while since Lou has been there and has been maintained since Shanny has been the president, so it's funny why I see people talk about it as they have in with them, man the marketing department can't even squeak in easily to the leafs talk and they even work with them! Do you remember Davidson getting ripped up by Dubas and then having to apologize in GM's meeting, Governors and boards were PISSED, it's a code between GMs, only beat reporters in smaller markets get a bit more lee-way due to their size of the market and even then it's rare! I think the closest is likely Rutherford in St. Louis.

Feels like you are just kind of making it about it's a glorious day and that'll be fine, great you are feeling confident but I can tell you the board of directors isn't that fine atm I am not saying you should panic nor you should ask chaos but to think everything is fine is kind of a fooey when Shanny himself is sweating atm. It's been almost 10 years and so far what has happened under Shanny?

Anyways this is just going in circles at the moment since it's just been stuck at one point of my scenario, let's just leave it at I hope we get a good GM soon!

Like I said the doom and gloom scenario or in other words "time crunch" scenario has ZERO meaning when one wants to do the right thing. we are going to have to agree to disagree. Because you are going to say shanny should have had a gm in mind before and i would say shanny should have canned dubas after the habs series. But clearly the time crunch is the end of the world eh?


In the "business" side of things, failing to meet your work objectives gets you FIRED right away. The incompetence that was dubas who continued to not only maintain job security in the past but every year made the team worse and not lose his job was very "unlike" business side of things. As someone who also knows how journalists operate the integrity of their work especially the ones painting doom and gloom sceario and dubas shills is something that a critical thinking person would absolutely ignore but as you were ; also I think we would try not to use I know xyz and so 'trust me bro' points because that just derails the point of having any discussions
Also, am not sure what MLSE's iron curtainm dubas ripping on davidson, etc... has to do with what I said in my previous post but ok I guess


As someone who claims to know the "business" side of things, I assume you would know that the board of director would not have green lighted the "firing" if they were not happy about it. shanahan basically said that in the presser that he has bosses, he provided them their recommendation that dubas should not be extended and the bosses or the board agreed. Man whats this "business" you run just curios....

I really believe we are going to be much better for it in the future. Panic and uproar is not going to solve anything anyway. Pridham had worked on the deals before and he will continue to work on the deals one way or another until we get a new GM. Its gonna work out.

It would be wise if people in general NOT be:

But rather HAVE:

 

[All Mod Cons]

Is the DDL still trying to take others down with them? They fired my guy, so I hope they all get fired as well, type of thing?

 

[thewave]

He's not the front runner and there isnt a good feel going on. He is competent and will do what is asked but also is being asked by others for interviews so there is conflict of interest potentially at play along with survivors guilt in corporate restructuring situation.

The main plan is to find a new head to run things over smoothly and ASAP

Permission to interview him is denied. Shanny put the teams on notice that he is acting GM. It's hard to say who the front runner is tbh. They need to get working on these contracts immediately (Or trades)

Nylander was denied to play for Sweden. That means things are in play right now.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

If you think about it, it seems that Dubas may have clashed with all of Lou, Hunter, Babcock and eventually Shanahan.

His modus operandi was to surround himself with ex-Soo Greyhound personnel that would "owe" him.

Perhaps Kyle has trouble playing with others?

I think it's pretty obvious that he sticks to people he is familiar with. That, I noted, over the last few years is a sign of someone who is not confident in his abilities. If you are only trading for players you know...how is that possibly good for the team? I also did not like the fact that he would only make trades with a very small subset of teams. Is that because he felt he wouldn't be "Ripped off" by another GM outside his friendly circle?

Those signs to me...we telling that he lost his way when is vision of team building didn't work and he tried a kind of hybrid approach. He even admitted at his presser that he was worried about bringing in 1/3 of the teams players at the deadline. That looked like desperation to me...and it showed.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Yeah it's totally an age thing
How about some are happy with a new direction and for Dubas being exposed before re-signing the guy based on yet another early exit

I'm Kyle's age and I'm over the moon we're getting a new direction. Just wished it was done after the Columbus series.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Permission to interview him is denied. Shanny put the teams on notice that he is acting GM.

I thought they allowed Pridham didn't they? if not that's good stuff. It'll be interesting for sure. I am hoping this done hopefully within next week so things are rolling.

Hoping by Friday they have an idea.

 

[andora]

I have done something that I haven't done on this site. I have gone through each and every page and post in this thread 3341 posts before this one.

And I've reached a conclusion:

I don't think I've ever seen such a cult like behavior for a freakin GM in NHL by any fans of other teams, any fans of any other sports leagues

I am freakin' speechless and I just don't understand this. just WOW

I just dont like how everything stops and things are just in explosion mode because of one guy - there should be plenty of continuity left

Now as you have said if certain players hold things up because of their gm gone that should be a red flag just like dubies presser was

I mean what fo you have to sell to matthews and nylander? Yes we will continue to operate with the intention of icing a cup contending team .. what can be added.. do they need to know trade targets too?

 

[thewave]

I thought they allowed Pridham didn't they? if not that's good stuff. It'll be interesting for sure. I am hoping this done hopefully within next week so things are rolling.

Hoping by Friday they have an idea.

Getting it done is important. I hope it happens quick as well.

Someone said in the other thread said that Matthews won't negotiation or talk numbers until his NMC kicks in. I don't know if thats true though.

 

[Mess]

Guess Shanny did not think signing Kyle was as critical a move as you claimed. No surprise.

My thoughts exactly in reflection now for a few days on how things went down.

Dubas on merit of performance and lack of playoff success should have been let go & case closed. He was purposely placed in a lame duck expiring contract because the organization didn't believe he merited a new contract. With only 5 playoff wins in a single playoff season over 5 years his high water mark of success that is not something anyone would be afraid to move away from. The job performance results speak for themselves.

However timing alone might have been the reason Shanny decided just recently to extend Dubas.. Lots of big contracts and important decisions to be made in a short time and so changing the GM not ideal for continuity for the organization. That said that was not a rock solid commitment or endorsement of Dubas performance but what might simply be best for MLSE in the present ONLY.

Shanahan had an itchy trigger finger and it took very little of Dubas's media and contract request nonsense to push Shanny's over the edge and cut ties and send the Leafs into undesirable upheaval anyways. If all it takes is one press conference and short contract phone call negotiation to change direction 180 degrees then you can conclude the GMs job was only hanging by a thread anyways, and Shanny looking for a reason to move on, and Kyle served it up on a silver platter.

Lets talk dollars here $$ .. MLSE was willing to give Dubas a short-term $4 mil per extension for him to stay on, but for how long? At that rate and term they could have severed ties at any point had they a replacement in mind and better timing to change GMs and doing it under their timeline with a full and complete search. That is why I believe even Kyle understood he was a dead man walking and simply being used to get the Leafs over this next hurdle until something better became available. Even needed to talk to family if he wanted to stay on under these perceived conditions of employment and if it was worth it ,or just walk away if that is how little MLSE felt about him. Publicly airing your dirty laundry with a new contract all but sitting there to sign has to have a reason to commit career suicide.

So Dubas counter proposal was a ridiculous 5 or more years at $6-7 mil in the 11th hour to give himself some long-term security and make it much more difficult to sever ties, and should they move on he would be financially secure based on severance pay on a guaranteed contract. Taking into account the organization would also have to pay his replacement as well making change much more financailly costly $$. However that was the final a straw that broke the camel's back and all the reason Shanny needed to kick him out the door with full MLSE backing.

Your honour the defense rests.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Getting it done is important. I hope it happens quick as well.

Someone said in the other thread said that Matthews won't negotiation or talk numbers until his NMC kicks in. I don't know if thats true though.

That's Friedman being Friedman.

I think the Nylander thing was becuase he didn't want to take someone else roster spot also that potentially being of his brothers as well cute but also sad

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Getting it done is important. I hope it happens quick as well.

Someone said in the other thread said that Matthews won't negotiation or talk numbers until his NMC kicks in. I don't know if thats true though.

Well then you have to trade him. No choice.

 

[andora]

The entire situation is a bizarre thing, the relationship between Dubas and Shanahan broke down within 3 days? I just hope it wasn't MLSE meddling in hockey ops, or else we are really f***ed.

Sunday - Both sides want to stay,
Monday - Both sides want to stay, (Dubas questions if he still wants to do it/uses it as negotiation tatic)
Tuesday - Shanahan has doubts?
Wednesday - Dubas agent tries to get more money and power. (NOTE: Found out tonight, he was still running the team meetings on how to improve the team)
Thursday - Dubas emails him saying he's committed
Friday - Fired.

I dunno, just seems like everything moved really quickly, and wasn't thought out as much as normal, in a period in the organization where everything they do from now to the draft is super important.

I'm all for change, if it's a change that's going to make us better, at the end Dubas and Shanahan have one series win, but I just don't see other options with "experience" as Shanahan wants, better then Dubas.

Im curious why does it mean the relationship broke down versus shanahan being objective

The timeline is a bit off though shanny had his change on monday and dubas on thuraday said i am in but with this instead

God i would love to read that email

 

[Menzinger]

Well then you have to trade him. No choice.

Trading Matthews would likely be a career ender for Shanahan. Especially given that prior to Dubas' firing Matthews had publicly declared his desire to extend.

Trading him would look like Shanny drove him from the team by his other actions (regardless if it's actually true or not).

 

[andora]

I guess so, but seems pretty short sited to fire him because of disliking how the negations have turned out. If it's MLSE that doesn't like it and told Shanahan to fire him, we are f***ed no matter who is brought in, as soon as owners feelings get in the way of what's best for the team and for hockey ops, we are in trouble.

I dont see how this is automatically synced with feelings

Usually it is feelings that draw things out longer and when you step back and look at the overview it gets clearer and quicker