Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[PromisedLand]

I just dont like how everything stops and things are just in explosion mode because of one guy - there should be plenty of continuity left

Now as you have said if certain players hold things up because of their gm gone that should be a red flag just like dubies presser was

I mean what fo you have to sell to matthews and nylander? Yes we will continue to operate with the intention of icing a cup contending team .. what can be added.. do they need to know trade targets too?

The self serving, country club culture is not going to be tolerated anymore in the MLSE is the signal that I am getting.

Matthews signed his ELC when Lou was here, then he signed his next contract with dubas. He will sign a new contract with a new GM anyway whether its with the Leafs or somewhere else.

We needed a culture shift, and we just got it IMO.

These are the scenarios I see play out:

1) Matthews and Nylander re-sign at a reasonable cap hit
2) Matthews and Nylander do a sign and trade because nobody is going to pay significant pieces for pending UFAs
3) Rare scenario -> Both of them pull a Tavares and walk as UFAs

Marner also has NMC kick in on July 1st, so he has more value in the interim, we should explore trade market for Marner just in case scenario 3 comes to pass. We should be pro-active.

Ideally pridham is already in touch with Matthews' agent to see whats the interest and what can be done moving forward. Matthews makes a lot of additional revenue by being a Leaf is he willing to forego that additional money? Hypothetically, even if Matthews goes some team will pay him ridiculous AAV and they will have to be cap compliant there will be a domino effect where Leafs can still benefit one way or another. Although, not ideal but if push comes to shove this is how I'd play this:

A) See if Matthews can be re-signed at a reasonable cap hit if yes good he is locked
B) if A cannot happen then explore a sign and trade option where you work with Matthews (we may not get full value as Matthews picks where he wants to go and we will have to accommodate that)
C) Worse case scenario where Matthews pulls a Tavares and walks as a UFA; if this comes to pass then it comes to pass you make the best of that situation

I'd do the same scenarios with Nylander.

With Marner on the other hand I'd be more pro-active in moving him asap because we can't negotiate a contract with him until end of next season anyway.

Tavares isn't waiving his NMC so we are kind of stuck with it

My first priority would be Matthews, then Marner and then Willy

 

[andora]

The self serving, country club culture is not going to be tolerated anymore in the MLSE is the signal that I am getting.

Matthews signed his ELC when Lou was here, then he signed his next contract with dubas. He will sign a new contract with a new GM anyway whether its with the Leafs or somewhere else.

We needed a culture shift, and we just got it IMO.

These are the scenarios I see play out:

1) Matthews and Nylander re-sign at a reasonable cap hit
2) Matthews and Nylander do a sign and trade because nobody is going to pay significant pieces for pending UFAs
3) Rare scenario -> Both of them pull a Tavares and walk as UFAs

Marner also has NMC kick in on July 1st, so he has more value in the interim, we should explore trade market for Marner just in case scenario 3 comes to pass. We should be pro-active.

Ideally pridham is already in touch with Matthews' agent to see whats the interest and what can be done moving forward. Matthews makes a lot of additional revenue by being a Leaf is he willing to forego that additional money? Hypothetically, even if Matthews goes some team will pay him ridiculous AAV and they will have to be cap compliant there will be a domino effect where Leafs can still benefit one way or another. Although, not ideal but if push comes to shove this is how I'd play this:

A) See if Matthews can be re-signed at a reasonable cap hit if yes good he is locked
B) if A cannot happen then explore a sign and trade option where you work with Matthews (we may not get full value as Matthews picks where he wants to go and we will have to accommodate that)
C) Worse case scenario where Matthews pulls a Tavares and walks as a UFA; if this comes to pass then it comes to pass you make the best of that situation

I'd do the same scenarios with Nylander.

With Marner on the other hand I'd be more pro-active in moving him asap because we can't negotiate a contract with him until end of next season anyway.

Tavares isn't waiving his NMC so we are kind of stuck with it

My first priority would be Matthews, then Marner and then Willy

I agree with the order although would run marner and nylander concurrently.. if you are trying to sign nylander it wouldnt be the worse thing if he sees you are picking him over marner early.. rather than after the marner deal happens.. could save some money

But i am in the camp you explore a marner trade.. i am ready as i have ever been

 

[PromisedLand]

Ottawa seems to be gaining traction as a Dubie destination. I think that would be perfect. Sure they have some young talent, but they’re a million miles from true contender and they’re literally in the Leafs shadow, in every conceivable way. Dubas, enjoy the brown grass, nothing will make it appear more so than the Sens.

the bad part is unfortunately that dorion got decent deals for their core and locked them with term. if only dubas could go there and screw their cap structure; which can still happen

 

[andora]

Ottawa seems to be gaining traction as a Dubie destination. I think that would be perfect. Sure they have some young talent, but they’re a million miles from true contender and they’re literally in the Leafs shadow, in every conceivable way. Dubas, enjoy the brown grass, nothing will make it appear more so than the Sens.

Lol he would inherit looming cap issues questionable goaltending and a coaching problem

Continuity !

 

[ToneDog]

Getting it done is important. I hope it happens quick as well.

Someone said in the other thread said that Matthews won't negotiation or talk numbers until his NMC kicks in. I don't know if thats true though.

I've heard Leafs have a number in mind for Matthews. The term will have to be agreed upon.

As long as they are close, no need to trade him. You sign him and trade Marner or Nylander. My guess is they move Nylander which might be a mistake if Marner asks for Matty money in a year.

 

[KPower]

Getting it done is important. I hope it happens quick as well.

Someone said in the other thread said that Matthews won't negotiation or talk numbers until his NMC kicks in. I don't know if thats true though.

That Matthews contract is a disgrace, walking him into free agency in his prime.

 

[andora]

Dubas had to do all those things as well. It's not like there isn't a front office with several qualified people to bridge the gap.

• If they don't know that basic contract demands of AM and WN by now then Dubas should have been fired.
• I'm sure there have been a number of internal discussions about Marner, and even if Dubas had been working on something, Pridham and Shanahan should know about it and can continue in the short term. If they don't know what Dubas was doing, he should have been fired.
• Again, there should already be rough idea of the FA strategy, or Dubas should have been fired. Obviously that would likely change, but any GM worth hiring will already have an idea of how he wants the Leafs to play, and is fully aware of the UFA's available.

I've seen several reorganizations, and people in "critical positions" being either let go or leaving of their own accord, life goes on.

Let's face it, we all wanted things to change, well they're changing.

Thank you .. i felt like i was a weirdo.. too few are recognizing this

There should be a meme of pridham staring at his computer at the login screen cause he doesnt know the password and dubas face as the windows user avatar

I mean f***.. people think they are sitting in the boardroom saying.. what do we do now

 

[PromisedLand]

I agree with the order although would run marner and nylander concurrently.. if you are trying to sign nylander it wouldnt be the worse thing if he sees you are picking him over marner early.. rather than after the marner deal happens.. could save some money

But i am in the camp you explore a marner trade.. i am ready as i have ever been

Nylander will be seeking a hefty pay raise IMO. Just using some historical evidence, Matthews signed asap he didn't wait for the year to be over so I have more hope that Matthews situation can be done quickly one way or another given his history.

Nylander and Marner both waited for the year to end before they negotiated new contracts; if we assume that Willy may want to do the same then we can't force Willy. Nylander may want to explore the UFA market who knows. The question then becomes is what is the value that other teams might put on Nylander? And can Leafs make that offer to him? Nylander should be between 8.5 to 9.5 AAV; but if someone is offering him 11 AAV he might go there.

Nylander hasn't gone to play for sweden this year i.e. he has broken the past pattern; now whether it is because Leafs did not give him permission or did he do it independetnly i don't know so thats why i put nylander as 3rd but I don't have an issue if we do Willy/Marner at the same time.

 

[thewave]

That Matthews contract is a disgrace, walking him into free agency in his prime.

Being a Leafs fan shouldn't include making me want to literally throw up. I am way too invested in this shit lol

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Trading Matthews would likely be a career ender for Shanahan. Especially given that prior to Dubas' firing Matthews had publicly declared his desire to extend.

Trading him would look like Shanny drove him from the team by his other actions (regardless if it's actually true or not).

Would keeping Matthews for the whole season and then letting him walk be a better option for MLSE? I don't think they prefer to trade him...but they are sure as shit not waiting to get Tavaras'ed by AM next year...let alone all the media scrutiny about the contract during the reg season which will probably impact AM's play on the ice.

 

[Mess]

Trading Matthews would likely be a career ender for Shanahan. Especially given that prior to Dubas' firing Matthews had publicly declared his desire to extend.

Trading him would look like Shanny drove him from the team by his other actions (regardless if it's actually true or not).

What about the price of re-signing?

Hypothetically what If Matthews asks for 3-4 years at $14-15 mil [or insert any $ and term making re-signing difficult] do you take it or leave it?

That would protect Shanny reputation but would it be good for the Leafs?

 

[PromisedLand]

It really is bizarre. I can understand others (media, fans) liking Dubas and thinking he's the best of the current available crop (which I personally disagree with) but the way he's being elevated as the team's only hope as if he guided them to dynasty is very strange.

I'll be just as upset if MLSE hires a GM that comes in and sucks for the next 5 years and wins nothing. But guess what? Dubas didn't win anything meaningful either. One single playoff round. His whole tenure was doing less with more. If the new guy stinks it doesn't mean Dubas suddenly did well... It means they both failed.

As for any of the core having issue with Dubas being let go, they can follow him out the door because they haven't won anything either.

Bingo!

Simple critical thinking, using reason and logic for understanding and then decisions is not that hard.

I really blame the ON education system. The STEM fields are not getting any while the entitlement, me first, i am awesome, BS is flourishing in the schools.

Critical thinking is just thrown out the door, no wonder, population as a whole especially in Toronto is becoming dumber and dumber. Its sad really

 

[Apex Predator]

Kyle Dubas is praised because he...

Never won anything significant during his time here
Cleaned out our picks for the foreseeable future in an attempt to win
Overpaid our core players and gave them NMCs all at once.
His own contract was timed with the NMCs activating.
Had possibly the highest turnover of any team for roster (not good for gelling a team)
Essentially conspired to have a good coach removed in Babcock.
Refused to fire a coach that was consistently not achieving.

This is your media professionals Toronto. Unsub, Unfollow before you start taking hits to your IQs.

Sounds like JFJ with the biggest difference JFJ inherited an old team on the down while Dubas got young core on the rise.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Nylander will be seeking a hefty pay raise IMO. Just using some historical evidence, Matthews signed asap he didn't wait for the year to be over so I have more hope that Matthews situation can be done quickly one way or another given his history.

Nylander and Marner both waited for the year to end before they negotiated new contracts; if we assume that Willy may want to do the same then we can't force Willy. Nylander may want to explore the UFA market who knows. The question then becomes is what is the value that other teams might put on Nylander? And can Leafs make that offer to him? Nylander should be between 8.5 to 9.5 AAV; but if someone is offering him 11 AAV he might go there.

Nylander hasn't gone to play for sweden this year i.e. he has broken the past pattern; now whether it is because Leafs did not give him permission or did he do it independetnly i don't know so thats why i put nylander as 3rd but I don't have an issue if we do Willy/Marner at the same time.

I know a lot of people are thinking that AM will want to bolt because Dubas is no longer the GM....I just think that a possibility is that if the new GM comes in and says we are going to go with a heavier, tougher lineup...it might actually be something AM wants. Right now the stars are expected to be both talented and creative whilst being tough because we don't have any real pricks on the team. Maybe AM sees it as a relief that he won't be ragdolled by other teams because we have guys that are more bite than bark (anti-Bunting's). I know if I didn't like rough play I sure as hell would rather have guys who did like it on my team doing it for me. It is kind of stupid that the GM never thought that the core 4 were never going to become Messier's etc...

 

[All Mod Cons]

I cant imagine what was going through his head after he told Shanny he was in and Shanny went no thanks......that is one lonely drive home.. 5 yrs 20 mill and you decide to play chicken with your boss who clearly didnt take kindly to that sort of behaviour.....good riddance.

Imagine having to tell the wife. Hi love, how was your day?

Mine? Yeah, ups and downs. Good news is I'm home early. Bad news is I think I just set $20mil on fire.

What we eating tonight?

 

[andora]

Getting it done is important. I hope it happens quick as well.

Someone said in the other thread said that Matthews won't negotiation or talk numbers until his NMC kicks in. I don't know if thats true though.

If that is true i start talking to other teams.. that play is protecting his wallet in my opinion

 

[Menzinger]

Would keeping Matthews for the whole season and then letting him walk be a better option for MLSE? I don't think they prefer to trade him...but they are sure as shit not waiting to get Tavaras'ed by AM next year...let alone all the media scrutiny about the contract during the reg season which will probably impact AM's play on the ice.

I think they just give him whatever he wants to sign an extension, regardless of how much $ it ends up being

 

[PromisedLand]

I know a lot of people are thinking that AM will want to bolt because Dubas is no longer the GM....I just think that a possibility is that if the new GM comes in and says we are going to go with a heavier, tougher lineup...it might actually be something AM wants. Right now the stars are expected to be both talented and creative whilst being tough because we don't have any real pricks on the team. Maybe AM sees it as a relief that he won't be ragdolled by other teams because we have guys that are more bite than bark (anti-Bunting's). I know if I didn't like rough play I sure as hell would rather have guys who did like it on my team doing it for me. It is kind of stupid that the GM never thought that the core 4 were never going to become Messier's etc...

I think Matthews would prefer a heavy team. Out of the core 4, IMO, its only Matthews that threw his body around in the playoffs and went into the corners without hesitation.

I agree with you that Matthews would prefer to play with a heavier team; it will mesh well with his game too. Heck Matthews had his first fight in the playoffs against Stamkos while marner was playing (please don't see me) on the ice

 

[Maple Leaf]

I would keep thews
Trade Tavares
Marner or Nylander x factor decision

 

[Pinkcat]

is this meant to insult the guy haha
Either way, he raises a good point on Dubas' drafting skills though.

Most of those NHL games played are by Sean Durzi who never played for the Leafs.

 

[Menzinger]

What about the price of re-signing?

Hypothetically what If Matthews asks for 3-4 years at $14-15 mil [or insert any $ and term making re-signing difficult] do you take it or leave it?

That would protect Shanny reputation but would it be good for the Leafs?

I don't think it would be great for the Leafs, but I see it happening regardless. GMs and front office staff will often make decisions that benefit themselves over the team

I don't see Matthews looking to give the team a cheaper deal as they're likely removing the staff and potentially teammates that he likes.

 

[geo25]

Um, excuse me that's EXPECTED percentage of neutral zone puck possession during afternoon games on the road in December.

HaHa...where is the Fraud now "EXPECTED TO" go....if anywhere? Hockey execs are savvy...they could see what he was up to....regardless of what he may think he is not the smartest guy in the Hockey world...he was constantly taken to the woodshed...Adios you pos...

 

[All Mod Cons]

Hold up. He is going to ask Gary Bet99man for advice on picking a GM?

Ok it really is a clown organization. If that's true, he should resign. If he doesn't have a plan B and was basically non existent all season long and has to ask Gary Bet99man, I mean, I can't even lol.

No. I've heard on several podcasts over the passed 3 or 4 years, this is a common practice. The NHL help facilitate the search for a GM, contact everyone, explain contract situations and other stuff. As far as I'm aware, they don't hire a guy/gal on our behalf.

 

[ToneDog]

I think they just give him whatever he wants to sign an extension, regardless of how much $ it ends up being

Term will be the issue IMO but if I am him, be prepared to hear it if you take more than MacKinnon and continue to shit the bed in the playoffs. I'd take a little less and buy some goodwill from the fanbase. The extra few dollars is not worth the added pressure it will bring.

You rang the bell once and have enough money to last a lifetime. Time to put winning ahead of more money. We'll see what he chooses soon.

 

[ToneDog]

No. I've heard on several podcasts over the passed 3 or 4 years, this is a common practice. The NHL help facilitate the search for a GM, contact everyone, explain contract situations and other stuff. As far as I'm aware, they don't hire a guy/gal on our behalf.

If Gary can open doors that nobody else can, why not go for it. I am thinking Doug Armstrong who I wanted the last time we were looking for a GM and he was available.