Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Jimmy Firecracker]

If Shanahan had made Dubas' life so difficult why did Dubas stick around like a jaded cop looking to do the time so he can get his pension benefits?

Why was dubas proclaming in teh presser that he will only want to work as gm with teh leafs and nowhere else?

Why did dubas wait till his contract negotiations were up to task to do it?

Dubas' track record shows that he has completely dropped the ball. While you don't acknowledge that dubas has failed the leafs you just want to blame shanny?

I blame Shanahan for this shitshow we find ourselves in. Scrambling to find a GM when two of our most important players can sign extensions. It’s amateur hour and when this franchise should be above it.

If Dubas has failed so bad why did Shanahan want to bring him back? Dubas’ Leafs haven’t lived up to expectations, doesn’t mean this team isn’t in a good spot or he’s done an overall awful job. He should’ve been fired long ago if it was all about results. Shanahan firing him because of a faux pas in negotiations is asinine after he felt like Dubas did a good enough job to warrant an extension. It reeks of pettiness and as far as I’m concerned there’s more to the story.

Shanahan better be damn sure about who he’s hiring. We’re a couple of bad trades and key free agents leaving away from being a non-contender and being mired in mediocrity.

 

[centipede2233]

I’d be really interested in the trades shanny apparently blocked dubas from making. I also find it weird why would you offer a 5 yr contract to a guy your in a rumoured power struggle with…

 

[myleafs]

Hes actually not soft, Marner ont he other hand

mmmm he is a little bit soft

 

[Leaf Fans]

I respect the sentiments of the elderly family member

i just don't agree with what she is saying. In anyway, it was quite interesting to see her posting on mirtle's tweet. if there was any doubt that mirtle is a dubas shill it shouldn't be anymore

She posted on each of the three tweets in your post l. One of them was Mirtle.

 

[rocketman588]

I didn't say there was an unlimited amount of cap space... but there are no Marleau level contracts to deal with. Murray is tradeable but will take a bit of work to get done. They can create even more cap space if and when they decide to trade a top player as everyone expects.

The D does not need to be revamped.

I unfortunately don't think it will be that easy to get rid of Murray he might be stubborn. But yes we're not completely capped out but might not be able to give more then one year deals to make sure we can fit AM and willy which is fine

If we'd want to win a cup we need to change our D up they got exposed this playoffs and Gio needs to be given rests

 

[TheGreatOne11]

So if Shanny blocked trades, he should be just as gone as Dubas. He handcuffed him and who knows if those trades could have been difference makers. If you're blowing up Dubas due to taking a few days to return and you blocked trades so he could not live up to his full potential its time to gut this entire office and coach.

You made your bed. Lay in it Rogers/Bell. Time for a changing of the guards.

 

[rocketman588]

I’d be really interested in the trades shanny apparently blocked dubas from making. I also find it weird why would you offer a 5 yr contract to a guy your in a rumoured power struggle with…

The power struggle seems to be that Dubas thought he deserved shanny's job

 

[thewave]

So if Shanny blocked trades, he should be just as gone as Dubas. He handcuffed him and who knows if those trades could have been difference makers. If you're blowing up Dubas due to taking a few days to return and you blocked trades so he could not live up to his full potential its time to gut this entire office and coach.

You made your bed. Lay in it Rogers/Bell. Time for a changing of the guards.

There is so much BS around this thing. On one hand he has to step in to stop trades. On the other hand he is asking to extend him all year long. Then he is firing him.

 

[centipede2233]

The power struggle seems to be that Dubas thought he deserved shanny's job

Interesting….your likely right , dubas can tell his wife he torched millions of future dollars cause of his ego

 

[Kiwi]

Yep. The entire offseason plan - which was to double down on Dubas - went up in smoke in a few hours lol.

Shanny couldn't have been bothered to get a better read on Dubas weeks/months ago I guess.

Takes two to tango and Dubas threw a wrench into the works with that presser

Dubas could have had a quiet word with Shanny about how he was feeling instead he continued to negotiate a new deal and blind sided him in the press

Shanny isn't a mind reader, he's negotiating a new contract for Dubas so he's entitled to believe Dubas wants to continue on

I understand the relationship is strained but i don't think just one party is to blame for this situation

 

[Stephen]

I’d be really interested in the trades shanny apparently blocked dubas from making. I also find it weird why would you offer a 5 yr contract to a guy your in a rumoured power struggle with…

If you had a healthy, collaborative work environment between a senior executive and a junior executive, it's not unreasonable for the senior executive to look at a potential decision brought to the table, provide input and say, let's not proceed.

It becomes meddlesome when the junior in the relationship feels they should have more control on decision making, like the authority of the senior is unwarranted. That implies a dissatisfaction with the reporting hierarchy, which begs the question. If the junior had the sign off power of the senior, why is there a senior executive to begin with?

And hence, a power struggle ensues.

 

[rocketman588]

There is so much BS around this thing. On one hand he has to step in to stop trades. On the other hand he is asking to extend him all year long. Then he is firing him.

The fact that we made a bunch of different trades at the deadline probably tells me he wasn't blocking trades

 

[Martin Skoula]

So if Shanny blocked trades, he should be just as gone as Dubas. He handcuffed him and who knows if those trades could have been difference makers. If you're blowing up Dubas due to taking a few days to return and you blocked trades so he could not live up to his full potential its time to gut this entire office and coach.

You made your bed. Lay in it Rogers/Bell. Time for a changing of the guards.

The reason you don’t micromanage is that it opens you up to criticism for every past move your employees made in retrospect. Before that relevelation, every bad move is squarely on Dubas. After it, people start asking questions.

Who does the Tavares signing make more sense for? The guy that was preaching having speed on every line and finding underpaid moneyball players, or the guy that’s more concerned with setting a new face and legacy for the team (and himself) and pressuring management to make him captain so his bosses at Rogers and Bell can run 7 years worth of fluff pieces about the safest player in the league? Not taking a run at E. Kane or the whole fiasco with hiring and then firing Campbell’s old goalie coach over a tweet seems like something corporate cares about more than management. Plus now all the bad moves that did go through have Shanny’s implicit consent since they weren’t blocked.

I’d hope most moves were purely Dubas’ decisions, but the floor is open for speculation now.

 

[Stephen]

So if Shanny blocked trades, he should be just as gone as Dubas. He handcuffed him and who knows if those trades could have been difference makers. If you're blowing up Dubas due to taking a few days to return and you blocked trades so he could not live up to his full potential its time to gut this entire office and coach.

You made your bed. Lay in it Rogers/Bell. Time for a changing of the guards.

I kinda wish he blocked the Matt Murray trade... where was that meddling tendency when you needed it?

 

[notbias]

In the past I might have had this view BUT...

The way things have unfolded I really BeLeaf that there is a cosmic hand at play here. Things are about to get really good for the Leafs. It may not be immediate but we are winning the cup in the next 10-12 years.

If we don't rebuild/scorched earth route then it maybe within the next 3 to 5 years

I think hockey gods are finally taking mercy on the Leafs Nation

I think half of this board may be dead in the next 10-12 years based on how many people call Dubas kid, this isn't good news for the "I hate Dubas" crowd.

 

[myleafs]

The fact that we made a bunch of different trades at the deadline probably tells me he wasn't blocking trades

or were those the ones Shanny wanted? cause they didnt fit Dubas's MO at all

 

[Martin Skoula]

I think half of this board may be dead in the next 10-12 years based on how many people call Dubas kid, this isn't good news for the "I hate Dubas" crowd.

The TikTok on the helmets isn’t an ad, it’s a reminder.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Most entertaining thread in Leafs hfboards history.

 

[Kiwi]

I think half of this board may be dead in the next 10-12 years based on how many people call Dubas kid, this isn't good news for the "I hate Dubas" crowd.

It is, he hasn't done anything that makes me believe he had to be kept

Playoff results blow and we're about to perform major surgery on the core he believed in and massively overpaid

We also burned a ton of draft capital this TDL so our asset base isn't exactly strong

All in all I think he's been pretty bloody average

 

[Stephen]

The reason you don’t micromanage is that it opens you up to criticism for every past move your employees made in retrospect. Before that relevelation, every bad move is squarely on Dubas. After it, people start asking questions.

Who does the Tavares signing make more sense for? The guy that was preaching having speed on every line and finding underpaid moneyball players, or the guy that’s more concerned with setting a new face and legacy for the team (and himself) and pressuring management to make him captain so his bosses at Rogers and Bell can run 7 years worth of fluff pieces about the safest player in the league? Not taking a run at E. Kane or the whole fiasco with hiring and then firing Campbell’s old goalie coach over a tweet seems like something corporate cares about more than management. Plus now all the bad moves that did go through have Shanny’s implicit consent since they weren’t blocked.

I’d hope most moves were purely Dubas’ decisions, but the floor is open for speculation now.

Considering the size of the Leafs front office, my expectation is they had a lot of brainpower, ideas from all angles and it was a collaborative environment where ideas could be freely spun up, proposed, debated and decisions made after a healthy dialog, research, vetting process etc.

Whether that decision making process was Dubas with the final say and Shanahan with the perfunctory rubber stamp, or Dubas having to go see Shanahan for final approval, who knows? None of it seems that offensive unless there's a feeling that Shanahan shouldn't be part of the process...

I just think of a team like Boston. Does anyone care whether Don Sweeney calls the shots or if it's really Cam Neely? That distinction doesn't seem important unless you drew a line between the two and chose one guy to root for.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

well not every gm gets to walk into a cozy situatin that dubas walked into, and then go on to ruin everything.

dubas is the poster child of entitlement and nepotism.

new GM will do whats best for the team. I have zero doubt

As I always say... It aint over until the fat lady sings, I hope that is the case for the leafs but I'll believe it when I see it.

Heres hoping it'll be a damn good GM, I am still hoping it's somehow lucky Doug Armstrong.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Considering the size of the Leafs front office, my expectation is they had a lot of brainpower, ideas from all angles and it was a collaborative environment where ideas could be freely spun up, proposed, debated and decisions made after a healthy dialog, research, vetting process etc.

Whether that decision making process was Dubas with the final say and Shanahan with the perfunctory rubber stamp, or Dubas having to go see Shanahan for final approval, who knows? None of it seems that offensive unless there's a feeling that Shanahan shouldn't be part of the process...

I just think of a team like Boston. Does anyone care whether Don Sweeney calls the shots or if it's really Cam Neely? That distinction doesn't seem important unless you drew a line between the two and chose one guy to root for.

Either one is fine if he commits to it. Shanny is playing both sides by not taking ownership for his role in player decisions but still calling shots. If the team fails it’s the GMs fault, if the team succeeds we couldn’t have done it without Shanny.

I understand if you need to go through Shanny and the board to get an approval on a 100 million dollar deal with big bonus money up front, but the Hagel deadline deal is not that.

The fact that he was satisfied with Kyle’s work up until the negotiation would suggest that this team’s vision has his fingerprints all over it and criticizing Dubas’ team building would be criticizing himself.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Considering the size of the Leafs front office, my expectation is they had a lot of brainpower, ideas from all angles and it was a collaborative environment where ideas could be freely spun up, proposed, debated and decisions made after a healthy dialog, research, vetting process etc.

Whether that decision making process was Dubas with the final say and Shanahan with the perfunctory rubber stamp, or Dubas having to go see Shanahan for final approval, who knows? None of it seems that offensive unless there's a feeling that Shanahan shouldn't be part of the process...

I just think of a team like Boston. Does anyone care whether Don Sweeney calls the shots or if it's really Cam Neely? That distinction doesn't seem important unless you drew a line between the two and chose one guy to root for.

There is quite a bit of distinction in the posts, the only place where I believe the change occurs is within the MLSE in the Raptors organization with Masai who is very involved and has earned that right due to his tenure and record. Hell even if you speak to him in person Masai will sound more like a scout than a president because of how in-depth he goes into things.

So if there is a difference in the post but meddling going on there definitely is some friction I'd imagine being created. I just hope Shanny knows what he is doing as it is a critical point. I genuinely can't think who we can pry away from a franchise who is well experienced in everything.

 

[Stephen]

As I always say... It aint over until the fat lady sings, I hope that is the case for the leafs but I'll believe it when I see it.

Heres hoping it'll be a damn good GM, I am still hoping it's somehow lucky Doug Armstrong.

8 days ago, Kyle Dubas' Leafs were mired in disaster, facing an uncertain future post second round disaster with questions to be asked, a core to be dismantled and now that he's gone, he was our last hope. Go figure.

How this era of the Toronto Maple Leafs came to an end

It's hard to win but getting easy to see that this exact mix won't. This is how this era of Toronto Maple Leafs hockey came to an end.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[TheDoldrums]

Hire Tulsky, trade Marner, lets win a Cup