Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[rocketman588]

Luke Schenn on your top pair isn't exactly ideal. How many other top contenders have a 1M defender with that much responsibility? He gets paid that much for a reason this late in his career.

Also, Gio and Timothy were terrible in the playoffs. The D 100% needs to be revamped.

I think Lily is fine

Schenn isn't signed he might go back

Morgan is definitely still good

A bit worried about Brodie but he'll end up being ok

In a perfect world we need a top pairing guy and a puck mover that isn't a defensive liability

It was mostly just pairings as Rielly and Schenn did well together and likely will be kept together if Schenn is brought back. McCabe and Brodie would presumably play the harder minutes and do well.

The idea would be to sign/trade for a defenseman though and push Giordano to 7th D with load management.

Revamping isn't necessary at all but I do think they could probably also go a step further and trade Brodie while he has value. Go younger and a different route.

Our D is fine

But it's not one that will win the cup

 

[Leaf Rocket]

There is always one team that wins the cup every year and all other teams are disappointed for either not making the playoffs or not winning the cup.

The goal is to see if the franchise is making steady progress which under dubas had not been the case. On the contrary I'd argue that under dubas we've went back while emptying the cupboards (only 4 picks this draft, and 2025 1st rounder traded away also btw); while nothing much to show. Not to mention the amount of picks dubas had thrown away for the third team to come in to help out with cap retention in the trade because of the cap structure dubas himself created.

There no team in the entire league that has 3 10+ AAV team, Leafs are the only team if am not mistaken. And that AAV doesn't even come with term so that you get more kicks at the can since the cap is tied for longer with the players so eventually you will get some cap flexibility..

There not going to be any GM who will come in and make it worse than Dubas had already done.

We are not only going to be fine, IMO we are going to be better for it!

I disagree with you on the drafting front saying we have emptied the cupboard, this seems like a fallacy constantly while we are still able to churn out pieces or prospects for trade nevertheless. I think I even posted we have a pretty good record on players we have drafted that are serviceable in the NHL currently more so than people realize even if they aren't first-rounders. Somewhere around the 8th? I think out of the 32 teams. That is also why I am concerned with no one at the helm about what is going to happen because we have done well with the limited assets/draft picks. Now a good deep draft is coming up no one is there? Yes, we can rely on Wes Clark but what if we want more picks? More assets? Just doesn't sit right with me.

I agree the progression hasn't been as great 100% and I agree the move Dubas did for the negotiation was idiotic. What is even more so is not to have a plan ready if you are going to make this decision. This is what I feel Shanny did:

Im going from Point A to Point B need to be there in a few days... I choose Car A... in the middle of the journey, I realize Car A is giving me second thoughts because it was not doing its job right. Ok, I guess I need a new Car. I guess I should just ditch the car and start walking even when I'm on a time crunch middle of nowhere. That might be too slow... okay I guess I'll just hitchhike and hope to make it to Point B.

 

[andora]

Yeah, well said - someone who was saying a bunch of things that he wasn't even sure he believed.

The way he waffled about his thought process after Monday, was like he was trying to sell himself on the story

Not really.. a person has to have experienced this type of thing to understand it think..

I simply speaks to how the dubas presser changed what was likely a steady consistent narrative all year until that point.. it changed shanahans reality

 

[Martin Skoula]

Not really.. a person has to have experienced this type of thing to understand it think..

I simply speaks to how the dubas presser changed what was likely a steady consistent narrative all year until that point.. it changed shanahans reality

Tavares staying in NYI was a steady consistent narrative all year until a point, it’s his job to know these things and be prepared.

 

[andora]

Tavares staying in NYI was a steady consistent narrative all year until a point, it’s his job to know these things and be prepared.

Well how prepared can you be? Outside of talking to people lining up potential interviews etc.. which at some point get leaked and makes a mess.. having a list of people in your head is realistic

Plus there is enough time to do all this without panic.. atleast in my opinion.. i mean christ there is enough staff there to handle things it isnt like dubas left with the network password

 

[PromisedLand]

I’d be really interested in the trades shanny apparently blocked dubas from making. I also find it weird why would you offer a 5 yr contract to a guy your in a rumoured power struggle with…

The power struggle seems to be that Dubas thought he deserved shanny's job

the power struggles stories were posted by dubas shills who are still painting a doomsday scenario like dubas is the messiah LOL

 

[stickty111]

 

[Stephen]

I didn’t like Dubas’ move but I get how creating that pressure was a viable Hail Mary. For my money I think the sticking point is autonomy more than the money involved.

I guess the question it boils down to is who brings more to the table as president between the two of them. Other than hierarchy, what’s the argument for Shanahan’s vision and ability to implement it vs Dubas?

I’ve mentioned before but my biggest gripe with Dubas is that at the same time as doubling down on the core over and over, he didn’t double down on the speed, intensity, and skill idea he sold us on at the beginning. I thought it was him and Keefe bending the knee to media pressure but now I’m not really sure where the push is from.

Speed and intensity down the lineup works when the entire team is built around it, Colorado made that clear. We went from a 9/10 speed and 3/10 physical team to a 6/10 speed and 6/10 physical team, got rid of our competitive advantage, and doubled down on the leftovers of the speed plan by surrounding them with the exact opposite players. I’m fine with the pivot to a big defensive team but you have to retool the core and commit to it then, half assing both approaches is what killed us. Even Keefe’s coaching made a lot of compromises just because of the Columbus series. Go back and watch one of the first few games after Babcock, we were so much more fluid and dynamic in all three zones.

If the changes since then are Shanny’s influence then he either shouldn’t have meddled or he should have been more aggressive and forced trades for core pieces that could play the new game he wanted for a coach who knew how to play it.

You make great points and raise good questions. For me, I think I'm just trying to solve one variable at a time and Matthews locking down settles things down and you can work with it, reset the franchise and hope to get back on an upward climb. Keeping Dubas would have made it easier to get that done, the devil you know, yada yada.

What I do like about Shanahan's move is he kind of put the foot down on a lot of the careerism going on in Leaf Land. You could definitely debate the merits of a President Dubas vs a President Shanahan, overall, but I do think they needed to address the kind of entitled attitude even a Rasmus Sandin was bringing to the organization in his RFA negotiations. Can those left in Leaf Land just pull together and do it for the good of the franchise?

 

[Martin Skoula]

Well how prepared can you be? Outside of talking to people lining up potential interviews etc.. which at some point get leaked and makes a mess.. having a list of people in your head is realistic

Plus there is enough time to do all this without panic.. atleast in my opinion.. i mean christ there is enough staff there to handle things it isnt like dubas left with the network password

“I’m going to start the search process and it’ll take an unknown amount of time” isn’t something you can say in your first press conference. Not immediately naming Pridham interim GM to handle the draft at least makes it seem like he’s probably not going to be around long enough to move his stuff into the big office.

We have no answers or direction and the media shitstorm hasn’t even started yet if the Dubas/Babcock saga is any indication.

 

[Pebble live]

May want to check how Marchment is doing.

it's better to do your own research than just listen to the loud people on this board.

Hows Malgin doing? Did Timmins play at all in the playoffs? yeah. May want to keep your mouth shut

 

[andora]

“I’m going to start the search process and it’ll take an unknown amount of time” isn’t something you can say in your first press conference. Not immediately naming Pridham interim GM to handle the draft at least makes it seem like he’s probably not going to be around long enough to move his stuff into the big office.

We have no answers or direction and the media shitstorm hasn’t even started yet if the Dubas/Babcock saga is any indication.

I just dont see the doom as some do..

There is time to get things done
There is staff to get them done

I guess i am just focused on the concept of the people here.. basically just looking at each other and saying.. lets get to work. 5 weeks of long days.. lets do this

 

[Superstar]

I'm sure Dubas is getting $6 to $7 million from Pittsburg...

 

[PromisedLand]

I disagree with you on the drafting front saying we have emptied the cupboard, this seems like a fallacy constantly while we are still able to churn out pieces or prospects for trade nevertheless. I think I even posted we have a pretty good record on players we have drafted that are serviceable in the NHL currently more so than people realize even if they aren't first-rounders. Somewhere around the 8th? I think out of the 32 teams. That is also why I am concerned with no one at the helm about what is going to happen because we have done well with the limited assets/draft picks. Now a good deep draft is coming up no one is there? Yes, we can rely on Wes Clark but what if we want more picks? More assets? Just doesn't sit right with me.

I agree the progression hasn't been as great 100% and I agree the move Dubas did for the negotiation was idiotic. What is even more so is not to have a plan ready if you are going to make this decision. This is what I feel Shanny did:

Im going from Point A to Point B need to be there in a few days... I choose Car A... in the middle of the journey, I realize Car A is giving me second thoughts because it was not doing its job right. Ok, I guess I need a new Car. I guess I should just ditch the car and start walking even when I'm on a time crunch middle of nowhere. That might be too slow... okay I guess I'll just hitchhike and hope to make it to Point B.

This is our draft capital for the next 3 drafts what is there?

Who dubas drafted as been an impact player on the Leafs? may be Knies? is he the only GM that finds gems in the 2nd round and beyond?

Here is the draft record since Dubas was named GM

The problem isn't that you chose Car A; the problem is that you forgot to check whether Car A is good enough to make the journey. it isn't car's fault its yours. if you get my drift. Responsibility and Accountability is missing from this organization; I am pretty sure it is going to come back!

The resolution to any problem is to first realize and admit that there is a problem so then you can prepare yourself to find a solution. If you are content that there is no problem; then the problems only multiply exponentially

 

[Jmo89]

It was mostly just pairings as Rielly and Schenn did well together and likely will be kept together if Schenn is brought back. McCabe and Brodie would presumably play the harder minutes and do well.

The idea would be to sign/trade for a defenseman though and push Giordano to 7th D with load management.

Revamping isn't necessary at all but I do think they could probably also go a step further and trade Brodie while he has value. Go younger and a different route.

If they trade a core piece maybe a younger middle pairing dman is part of the return. Then they can flip Brodie for something.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I just dont see the doom as some do..

There is time to get things done
There is staff to get them done

I guess i am just focused on the concept of the people here.. basically just looking at each other and saying.. lets get to work. 5 weeks of long days.. lets do this

If this is the worst things get we’re fine. If Pridham is in Calgary next week and Dubas poaches Wes Clark to Pittsburgh, I guess Dr Wickenheiser can run the show in her spare time.

 

[notbias]

Hows Malgin doing? Did Timmins play at all in the playoffs? yeah. May want to keep your mouth shut

Timmins is unrelated to those two, but okay, weird to bring him into it, almost like you have no clue what you're talking about.

I'd rather Malgin at league min or in the minors than Marchment at 4.5.

 

[Marlow88]

Kyle Dubas seems to be a power hungry individual. It seems like a lot of people are loyal to Dubas, as opposed to being loyal to the organization. Not sure if this is the culture that you want to have on the Leafs.

Which leads me to believe that certain players are more loyal to Dubas as opposed to the team. The next GM will have to figure out where the loyalties of Matthews/Nylander/Marner lie. If they are Dubas loyalists, then you know they will do what is best for themselves, as opposed to the organization. At which point, it probably is best to move on from them.

 

[notbias]

This is our draft capital for the next 3 drafts what is there?
View attachment 710895

Who dubas drafted as been an impact player on the Leafs? may be Knies? is he the only GM that finds gems in the 2nd round and beyond?

Here is the draft record since Dubas was named GM
View attachment 710901
View attachment 710899

The problem isn't that you chose Car A; the problem is that you forgot to check whether Car A is good enough to make the journey. it isn't car's fault its yours. if you get my drift. Responsibility and Accountability is missing from this organization; I am pretty sure it is going to come back!

The resolution to any problem is to first realize and admit that there is a problem so then you can prepare yourself to find a solution. If you are content that there is no problem; then the problems only multiply exponentially

Here is the betting odds favourite to replace Dubas...

 

[egd27]

We’re a couple of bad trades and key free agents leaving away from being a non-contender and being mired in mediocrity.

We've never gotten out of our division, let alone had a sniff at the conference championship or Stanley Cup. When have we been anything but a mediocre non contender in the past 5 years?

 

[GQS]

Did anyone else catch Friedman during the intermission talking about how Dubas wanted to simplify the decision making process and not necessarily wanting total control or cutting Shanahan out of the decision making?

 

[thewave]

This is our draft capital for the next 3 drafts what is there?
View attachment 710895

Who dubas drafted as been an impact player on the Leafs? may be Knies? is he the only GM that finds gems in the 2nd round and beyond?

Here is the draft record since Dubas was named GM
View attachment 710901
View attachment 710899

The problem isn't that you chose Car A; the problem is that you forgot to check whether Car A is good enough to make the journey. it isn't car's fault its yours. if you get my drift. Responsibility and Accountability is missing from this organization; I am pretty sure it is going to come back!

The resolution to any problem is to first realize and admit that there is a problem so then you can prepare yourself to find a solution. If you are content that there is no problem; then the problems only multiply exponentially

People were complaining about Hunter, this is way worse. I didn't even know wow

 

[PromisedLand]

I guarantee dubas gets fired within 2 years if he goes there.

feel free to bookmark this post anyone

 

[HofT]

Did anyone else catch Friedman during the intermission talking about how Dubas wanted to simplify the decision making process and not necessarily wanting total control or cutting Shanahan out of the decision making?

 

[Leaf Rocket]

This is our draft capital for the next 3 drafts what is there?
View attachment 710895

Who dubas drafted as been an impact player on the Leafs? may be Knies? is he the only GM that finds gems in the 2nd round and beyond?

Here is the draft record since Dubas was named GM
View attachment 710901
View attachment 710899

The problem isn't that you chose Car A; the problem is that you forgot to check whether Car A is good enough to make the journey. it isn't car's fault its yours. if you get my drift. Responsibility and Accountability is missing from this organization; I am pretty sure it is going to come back!

The resolution to any problem is to first realize and admit that there is a problem so then you can prepare yourself to find a solution. If you are content that there is no problem; then the problems only multiply exponentially

Yes because this is our Going in all the moment so ofc we are not having as much in the future. Hence it is critical to find out which is the right pick and asset management going forward. As well the commentary of you saying our cupboard is emptied...how are 28 picks during that span emptied cupboards then? Prospects aren't just expected to be an immediate impact, that's the point they are developed and given the time and space to figure it out. People here are jumping at the thought of Treliving that man had 23 picks

Great, we have come to an agreement that the wrong selection was made on Car A, yet you have not offered a solution on how to get to Point B still in a timely manner. Sure I am feeling good about responsibility and accountability but I am still walking in the middle of the road with no Car, no plan, and hoping to hitchhiker will take me where I want to go all while being on a deadline

The answer isn't always 42 !

 

[theTTC]

I just dont see the doom as some do..

There is time to get things done
There is staff to get them done

I guess i am just focused on the concept of the people here.. basically just looking at each other and saying.. lets get to work. 5 weeks of long days.. lets do this

Exactly. Eyes forward, it's a new chapter. Get some steel in your bones, git'er done.

Andora, feel like you're one of the few adults in the room?