Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[notbias]

Pretty idiotic to be munching dubas drafting for 2 guys not still in the organization (1 who wasnt here a few months after being drafted and was developed completely by the Kings)

Both of whom are bottom pairing D at the moment and undersized guys.

Dubas best draft pick is Knies who is similarly promising as Wolf for the flames.

Dubas and the scouting team has been all right in drafting not great not poor, similar to 2018-2021 Flames outside the 1st (which omits Zary, Coranato, Pellitier who look like high quality propsects similar to Knies level).

Your once again being disengenious to prop up Dubas. Your username needs a major update

The spin is crazy here.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

First I find it really interesting that folks are willing to extend the courtesy of 'developing' prospects for dubas while hunter was chased out of town. While everyone is going ga-ga over Woll but doesn't even want to acknolwedge that Woll was a hunter pick

Moving on.... when you pay 50% of the cap to 4 players you need to draft, develop to help out on teh ELCs. Dubas on the other hand pays premium draft captial to third teams to retain cap in trades and then flips the higher picks to pick later. I am sure your counter is going to be but after 3rd round its the same. No it isn't data supports it. There are are less 6th or 7th rounders that play in the NHL than the players pick earlier. There are no premium prospects that we are developing in the AHL, hail mary picks shooting in the dark blind man is great management eh

In your narrative you did not say it was you who made the wrong decision of choosing car A; your story said that Car A broke down. You gotta get your narrative straight first before posing questions

get your narrative straight first with a clarity and then if there is a "solution" I will attempt it

I don't think Tyler Bozak is a solution but ok....

I never said anything about Hunter so... I don't know where this is coming from? Irrelevant to my point and to my discussion about cupboard being empty. In fact, most of Hunter's pick I applauded quite well, check out my love for Lily

You didn't read my scenario right at all I didn't even say the Car broke down, I said it was giving me second thoughts, and thinking it was not doing its job right all while trying to meet my deadline.

Im going from Point A to Point B need to be there in a few days... I choose Car A... in the middle of the journey, I realize Car A is giving me second thoughts because it was not doing its job right. Ok, I guess I need a new Car. I guess I should just ditch the car and start walking even when I'm on a time crunch middle of nowhere. That might be too slow... okay I guess I'll just hitchhike and hope to make it to Point B.

 

[hamzarocks]

The spin is crazy here.

Thats how most people would feel about your post as well.

Dubas is dead, time to move on

 

[Trapper]

Kyle Dubas seems to be a power hungry individual. It seems like a lot of people are loyal to Dubas, as opposed to being loyal to the organization. Not sure if this is the culture that you want to have on the Leafs.

Which leads me to believe that certain players are more loyal to Dubas as opposed to the team. The next GM will have to figure out where the loyalties of Matthews/Nylander/Marner lie. If they are Dubas loyalists, then you know they will do what is best for themselves, as opposed to the organization. At which point, it probably is best to move on from them.

That’s the big question.
If someone doesn’t want to negotiate, or is dictating who remains on the team, who the coach should play in order to stay, goodbye.

 

[Thornbury]

You claimed that Shanahan was micromanaging and Dubas shouldn't have to deal with it. Then i said if it was so bad then why did dubas proclaim he would work only for the leafs and no where else?

Why in the hell did dubas make a big deal and then all of a sudden sent a new financial package to continue being a gm?

its not shanahan, dubas screwed dubas.

To each their own but i had zero faith in dubas doing a good job negotiating a contract. I actually have more faith now that we will either re-sign matthews/nylander at decent cap hits and if not they are not playing for the leafs and we get something for them and don't get screwed like isles did with tavares.

Shanahan along with Dubas should have been canned long ago IMO; b/c I hated what both of them did to the Leafs. It was absolutely garbage that shanahan was looking to bring dubas back. I am actually grateful that there hockey gods intervened and a cosmic hand made sure leafs do not commit another blunder.

One thing I can guarantee you that with dubas we would not have made any headway towards winning the cup. With this change now we will either make the right moves to win the cup within the next 3-5 years or we will just rebuild again to hopefully set up the franchise in a position to win the cup within 10-12 years.

I am more comfortable today than if he had re-signed Dubas. I see possibilities for the future now that didn't exist as long as Dubas was running this team

How on earth can you state so definitively that the future will be brighter when we have no idea who will be driving the bus?

 

[PromisedLand]

How on earth can you state so definitively that the future will be brighter when we have no idea who will be driving the bus?

what makes you think that kyle dubas was the savior and then it will only get worse?

 

[Pebble live]

Timmins is unrelated to those two, but okay, weird to bring him into it, almost like you have no clue what you're talking about.

I'd rather Malgin at league min or in the minors than Marchment at 4.5.

100% got timmins mixed up for the Malgin trade instead of Douglas. But the fact that you'd rather have a useless Malgin on the wing than a winger who can crash and physically contribute is a perfect example of how soft this fan base is.

you're flaccid.

 

[PromisedLand]

I never said anything about Hunter so... I don't know where this is coming from? Irrelevant to my point and to my discussion about cupboard being empty. In fact, most of Hunter's pick I applauded quite well, check out my love for Lily

You didn't read my scenario right at all I didn't even say the Car broke down, I said it was giving me second thoughts, and thinking it was not doing its job right all while trying to meet my deadline.

Like I said before you should have checked for Car A before you went on a journey. You made the choice of Car A nobody forced you to choose Car A. If you decide you don't want Car A anymore thats your choice. You feel like ditching Car A and start walking thats your choice.

If it was me, I would have checked whether Car A or Car B or Car X1.....Xn would be the best for the journey before even embarking on a journey. But that's me. having a foresight is something I value

Great, let's check back in a few years down the road and see how your prognostication skills play out.

Are you really hoping for the franchise to fail? really? and you call yourself a Leafs fan?

I freakin' hated every moment of Dubas being a GM but I never hoped for the franchise to fail.

Are you kidding me

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Man, I'm really not getting the attachment Dubas is getting from many people who are super upset about his departure. Some calling him the best Leafs GM in the last five decades.

I get it, he's young and a fresh mind, and has a different approach to things than the "dinosaurs".

But his resume speaks for itself:

-- Handed a phenomenal core in Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly...

-- Signs Tavares to a huge contract that really handcuffed the team cap wise (although I was and still am a supporter of the deal)....

-- ...yet only has one series win and one Round 2 win to show for it.

-- Gives big money to the Big Three while RFAs, and doesn't even get max term out of any of them.

-- The goaltending is still a mess and questionable as it was when he took over.

-- The defence is the same story -- Rielly, and a bunch of fillers who are coming and going and are getting older.

-- Blows a 1st on Foligno. Pairs a 1st with Mrazek to offload him (give full credit to him for rectifying a mistake), only to go out and get a bandaid in Murray.

-- His trading has been hit and miss and not all that great as made out to be.

-- His supposed forte of drafting too hasn't been all that great. Liljegren is good. Sandin and Durzi were fine (yet now playing elsewhere, and Durzi flourishing). Robertson is good, yet can't stay healthy one bit. Knies looks to be a top six stud. Last year's draft picks way too soon to make a judgement on. That's not the greatest drafting resume for five drafts.

-- Recycling a bunch of plugs to fill out the bottom six. I don't mind it...find guys on the cheap who are looking to prove themselves and try and squeeze as much possible out of them. But really...there's not one or two youngsters he drafted full of piss and vinegar on ELC contracts to fill those roles over the course of an 82-game season?


In the end, I would have held on to Dubas solely for the fact there'd be some continuity amongst the team. I'm not sure now is the time to try and find someone new, especially when you have four major contract negotiations coming up in the next two years, including your franchise player right now.

But as someone who wasn't a huge fan of Dubas or Keefe, and certainly of this group of players as is overall, I'm also quite excited for someone to come in fresh and shift the culture and roster of this team from its current composition.

 

[Burnie97]

This is what drives me crazy on the boards sometimes and I've been here long enough now.

I don't agree with a lot of shit people say and I'm sure it goes both ways alot of the time and that's all good.

That's the point of a discussion board.

What I don't get is people on the Leaf board basically hating on the Leafs. Makes zero sense.

You can hate many moves but the team is number one. Some People are most likely trolling but if you really come on here hoping for the Leafs to lose or wish bad on the team... gtfo

 

[Superstar]

Man, I'm really not getting the attachment Dubas is getting from many people who are super upset about his departure. Some calling him the best Leafs GM in the last five decades.

I get it, he's young and a fresh mind, and has a different approach to things than the "dinosaurs".

But his resume speaks for itself:

-- Handed a phenomenal core in Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly...

-- Signs Tavares to a huge contract that really handcuffed the team cap wise (although I was and still am a supporter of the deal)....

-- ...yet only has one series win and one Round 2 win to show for it.

-- Gives big money to the Big Three while RFAs, and doesn't even get max term out of any of them.

-- The goaltending is still a mess and questionable as it was when he took over.

-- The defence is the same story -- Rielly, and a bunch of fillers who are coming and going and are getting older.

-- Blows a 1st on Foligno. Pairs a 1st with Mrazek to offload him (give full credit to him for rectifying a mistake), only to go out and get a bandaid in Murray.

-- His trading has been hit and miss and not all that great as made out to be.

-- His supposed forte of drafting too hasn't been all that great. Liljegren is good. Sandin and Durzi were fine (yet now playing elsewhere, and Durzi flourishing). Robertson is good, yet can't stay healthy one bit. Knies looks to be a top six stud. Last year's draft picks way too soon to make a judgement on. That's not the greatest drafting resume for five drafts.

-- Recycling a bunch of plugs to fill out the bottom six. I don't mind it...find guys on the cheap who are looking to prove themselves and try and squeeze as much possible out of them. But really...there's not one or two youngsters he drafted full of piss and vinegar on ELC contracts to fill those roles over the course of an 82-game season?


In the end, I would have held on to Dubas solely for the fact there'd be some continuity amongst the team. I'm not sure now is the time to try and find someone new, especially when you have four major contract negotiations coming up in the next two years, including your franchise player right now.

But as someone who wasn't a huge fan of Dubas or Keefe, and certainly of this group of players as is overall, I'm also quite excited for someone to come in fresh and shift the culture and roster of this team from its current composition.

All of his signing and trading issues are self-inflicted because he tied up so much cap space and money in the core 4 with his overpayments...he keeps telling everyone how it's up to him to fill around the margins as if it's some noble deed that only he can do...well, those players he keep filling around the core 4 are experiments, and when they don't work out like the examples you'd highlighted, he needs to fork out resources/draft picks to get rid of them and try again.

 

[Donnie740]

How on earth can you state so definitively that the future will be brighter when we have no idea who will be driving the bus?

The only thing that matters is winning a championship.

After FIVE (5) consecutive years of embarrassing playoff collapses, Dubas has proven that he’s incapable of building a championship team.

There was ZERO possibility of the Leafs ever winning a Cup with Dubas so it’s impossible for any GM to be any worse.

I’m thrilled that the most incompetent GM since Gord Stellick has finally been fired.

 

[Kaladin]

Man, I'm really not getting the attachment Dubas is getting from many people who are super upset about his departure. Some calling him the best Leafs GM in the last five decades.

I get it, he's young and a fresh mind, and has a different approach to things than the "dinosaurs".

But his resume speaks for itself:

-- Handed a phenomenal core in Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly...

-- Signs Tavares to a huge contract that really handcuffed the team cap wise (although I was and still am a supporter of the deal)....

-- ...yet only has one series win and one Round 2 win to show for it.

-- Gives big money to the Big Three while RFAs, and doesn't even get max term out of any of them.

-- The goaltending is still a mess and questionable as it was when he took over.

-- The defence is the same story -- Rielly, and a bunch of fillers who are coming and going and are getting older.

-- Blows a 1st on Foligno. Pairs a 1st with Mrazek to offload him (give full credit to him for rectifying a mistake), only to go out and get a bandaid in Murray.

-- His trading has been hit and miss and not all that great as made out to be.

-- His supposed forte of drafting too hasn't been all that great. Liljegren is good. Sandin and Durzi were fine (yet now playing elsewhere, and Durzi flourishing). Robertson is good, yet can't stay healthy one bit. Knies looks to be a top six stud. Last year's draft picks way too soon to make a judgement on. That's not the greatest drafting resume for five drafts.

-- Recycling a bunch of plugs to fill out the bottom six. I don't mind it...find guys on the cheap who are looking to prove themselves and try and squeeze as much possible out of them. But really...there's not one or two youngsters he drafted full of piss and vinegar on ELC contracts to fill those roles over the course of an 82-game season?


In the end, I would have held on to Dubas solely for the fact there'd be some continuity amongst the team. I'm not sure now is the time to try and find someone new, especially when you have four major contract negotiations coming up in the next two years, including your franchise player right now.

But as someone who wasn't a huge fan of Dubas or Keefe, and certainly of this group of players as is overall, I'm also quite excited for someone to come in fresh and shift the culture and roster of this team from its current composition.

This post should be pinned on this forum for everyone to read. Most objective analysis I've seen on the Dubas era. Can't see how anyone could argue against any of that. The bar is below the ground for some people is all I can assume given their fawning over Dubas.

 

[Donnie740]

This post should be pinned on this forum for everyone to read. Most objective analysis I've seen on the Dubas era. Can't see how anyone could argue against any of that. The bar is below the ground for some people is all I can assume given their fawning over Dubas.

The Dubas Fan Boi Club was desperately hoping their hero could pave the way for a league full of GMs who’ve never played hockey in their life but can study spreadsheets and spout ridiculous statistics like percentage of neutral zone puck possession during afternoon games on the road in December.

Unfortunately, Dubas failed miserably in Toronto and his firing has caused the dreams of the analytic apologists.

 

[Leaf Fans]

This post should be pinned on this forum for everyone to read. Most objective analysis I've seen on the Dubas era. Can't see how anyone could argue against any of that. The bar is below the ground for some people is all I can assume given their fawning over Dubas.

It is not objective. But sure, why attach yourself to someone who no longer works for the club? A decision has been made for better or worse.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I need some more "Car A' posts.

 

[Squiffy]

How we doing here boys and girls? Sitting at a camp fire on the shores of Lake Huron, bit chilly tonight but the stars are gorgeous and oh the quiet. She’s pretty good.

Haven’t seen Dubas here yet, been on the lookout, if for some reason he’s not here (seems unlikely) he should come, it’s a great reset for a long weekend.

Weird week. Playing playoff hockey 8 days ago. And boom.

Really ok with looking for a new gm. Was time to shake it up. Excited for future here, we have a great team with a core in its prime years, and some new eyes to see about how to take the next step. Giddee up.

 

[hockeywiz542]

The timeline of events that led to Kyle Dubas’ firing from the Maple Leafs, plus the questions that remain

Maple Leafs President Brendan Shanahan sat at the podium inside Scotia...

theleafsnation.com

In a shocking turn of events — which began just eight days ago — Shanahan is left searching for a brand-new GM while Dubas is looking down the barrel of a possible job with another club in the NHL.

The biggest question I have from all of this is, what was said during their conversation on Wednesday? It seemed as though there was still a possibility of Dubas returning even though he opened the door to exiting the organization before their meeting.

What I also don’t understand is, was the relationship that fractured where Dubas had to tell Shanahan via email that he wanted to remain as the Maple Leafs’ GM?

Jason Spezza, who was Dubas’ left-hand man this past season, reportedly tendered his resignation prior to Shanahan speaking with the media.

It’s also being reported by The Athletic’s James Mirtle that “many of Dubas’ other lieutenants would seem to be at risk. Assistant GMs Ryan Hardy, Darryl Metcalf and Hayley Wickenheiser were all close to Dubas and relatively short on front-office experience when promoted into their roles as part of an unorthodox front-office setup that had so many AGMs in different roles.”

While Assistant GM Brandon Pridham takes over the personnel discussions, Shanahan is left to pick up the pieces of the fragmented predicament he created.

Those shards include finding a new GM, and quickly. Plus, figuring out how they can retain both Auston Matthews and William Nylander, who are both soon to be entering the final year of their deals and can sign new contracts on July 1st.

If there’s anything that I know, it’s that this summer will be both very busy and stressful for the Maple Leafs’ President.

 

[Menzinger]

I don't see a problem with it, as long as the chain of command and decision making process is outlined in the job search and everyone knows what the ground rules are. Maybe if it's a greenhorn candidate, the GM would have to work by committee with presidential sign off, working with the money guy and the amateur and pro directors. Maybe if it's Doug Armstrong the industry veteran he gets full autonomy. Who knows? Hell, maybe Shanahan wants to run as president with a committee of AGM's?

I also did mention that if it turns out they hire a star GM like Doug Armstrong and he starts pressing all the right buttons and things start moving ahead in a good way, that will present some interesting political dynamics for Brendan Shanahan.

If Shanahan makes the right pick for GM, and it leads to team success nobody will be happier than me. But,....

I just think it's a bit funny that this thread is full of folks shredding Dubas to pieces, when Shanny spent his entire time here rubber stamping and approving almost every move Dubas made.

The next hire is probably going to be Shanahan looking for continuity than any radical change

 

[Donnie740]

Assistant GMs Ryan Hardy, Darryl Metcalf and Hayley Wickenheiser were all close to Dubas and relatively short on front-office experience when promoted into their roles as part of an unorthodox front-office setup that had so many AGMs in different roles.”

So the new and inexperienced GM hired a whole bunch of new and inexperienced people to be his AGMs.

What a waste of office space. What a waste of money. Only Dubas could come up with something that dumb.

This is what happens when you give a stick boy from junior hockey the job as GM in the NHL.

 

[Menzinger]

Or he realizes he'd be better off with someone more like the previous GM than the recent one.

5 days ago Shanny was willing to pay 4 million a year for Dubas to stay. Didn't critique a single major hockey ops decision by Dubas in the press conference yesterday either.

Not sure I'd expect him to think radically different about things as he searches for a replacement. He might, but I don't see anything tangible pointing that way

 

[WillNy29]

The Dubas Fan Boi Club was desperately hoping their hero could pave the way for a league full of GMs who’ve never played hockey in their life but can study spreadsheets and spout ridiculous statistics like percentage of neutral zone puck possession during afternoon games on the road in December.

Unfortunately, Dubas failed miserably in Toronto and his firing has caused the dreams of the analytic apologists.

why are you so scared of quantifiable numbers? not even the biggest Dubas fan but why would you want to limit your use of tools or the tools you have at your disposal because numbers scare you?

every successful organization in hockey uses a statistical modelling system.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I’m thrilled that the most incompetent GM since Gord Stellick has finally been fired.

To be fair, Nonis was brutal

 

[Squiffy]

Are we just papering over JFJ here?

 

[Superstar]

5 days ago Shanny was willing to pay 4 million a year for Dubas to stay. Didn't critique a single major hockey ops decision by Dubas in the press conference yesterday either.

Not sure I'd expect him to think radically different about things as he searches for a replacement. He might, but I don't see anything tangible pointing that way

Shanahan doesn't need to be the one to think differently...it sounds like he wants a GM that would be able to...he thought he had found that GM in Dubas, but I think Dubas' presser called into question his commitment to the Leafs...and with the lack of playoff success in the last 5 years with Dubas being the GM, it was time to turn the page. Also, I don't think Shanahan appreciated the last minute financial demands made by Dubas.