Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[ErnieLeafs]

Are we just papering over JFJ here?

We are not (some of us), I assure you

 

[rocketman588]

This organization is run by idiots.

To me it shows how bullshit his presser was dude goes on stage and complains about his family and then says it's Toronto or nowhere. Guess that was only true if he got 7 million a year

His word appears to be garbage. MLSE looking more and more in the right

Toronto or nothing ( if you pay me 7 mil and give me more power) if not I'll go to Pittsburgh

I'm so concerned about my family I'll move anywhere

Garbage person

 

[Apex Predator]

To me it shows how bullshit his presser was dude goes on stage and complains about his family and then says it's Toronto or nowhere. Guess that was only true if he got 7 million a year

His word appears to be garbage. MLSE looking more and more in the right

Toronto or nothing ( if you pay me 7 mil and give me more power) if not I'll go to Pittsburgh

I'm so concerned about my family I'll move anywhere

Garbage person

I don’t think he’s a garbage person but he definitely used that presser as a negotiating tool.

 

[rocketman588]

I don’t think he’s a garbage person but he definitely used that presser as a negotiating tool.

Using his family to negotiate then going back on the one thing you claimed to be about is pretty garbage. In addition to using the media to try to get the Ottawa gig which is currently filled

Seems like he's narcissistic and power hungry

If you cross him he'll try to lampoon you in the media Babs style his issue here is that Shanny got ahead of him.

Good luck in Pittsburgh maybe he can trade us Sid for Marner and Keefe

 

[Leaf Fans]

Using his family to negotiate then going back on the one thing you claimed to be about is pretty garbage. In addition to using the media to try to get the Ottawa gig which is currently filled

Seems like he's narcissistic and power hungry

If you cross him he'll try to lampoon you in the media Babs style his issue here is that Shanny got ahead of him.

Good luck in Pittsburgh maybe he can trade us Sid for Marner and Keefe

He didn't use his family for anything like that - he was asked a question by reporter and answered it. Pittsburgh is to reach out to him- not the other way around according to the tweet anyway. They might convince them to change his mind.

 

[Torontonian]

5 days ago Shanny was willing to pay 4 million a year for Dubas to stay. Didn't critique a single major hockey ops decision by Dubas in the press conference yesterday either.

Not sure I'd expect him to think radically different about things as he searches for a replacement. He might, but I don't see anything tangible pointing that way

The entire situation is a bizarre thing, the relationship between Dubas and Shanahan broke down within 3 days? I just hope it wasn't MLSE meddling in hockey ops, or else we are really f***ed.

Sunday - Both sides want to stay,
Monday - Both sides want to stay, (Dubas questions if he still wants to do it/uses it as negotiation tatic)
Tuesday - Shanahan has doubts?
Wednesday - Dubas agent tries to get more money and power. (NOTE: Found out tonight, he was still running the team meetings on how to improve the team)
Thursday - Dubas emails him saying he's committed
Friday - Fired.

I dunno, just seems like everything moved really quickly, and wasn't thought out as much as normal, in a period in the organization where everything they do from now to the draft is super important.

I'm all for change, if it's a change that's going to make us better, at the end Dubas and Shanahan have one series win, but I just don't see other options with "experience" as Shanahan wants, better then Dubas.

 

[rocketman588]

He didn't use his family for anything like that - he was asked a question by reporter and answered it. Pittsburgh is to reach out to him- not the other way around according to the tweet anyway. They might convince them to change his mind.

He 100% used his family to negotiate through the press. Pretty obvious to see that

The entire situation is a bizarre thing, the relationship between Dubas and Shanahan broke down within 3 days? Or was it the MLSE board tired of Dubas, because if it was MLSE meddling with hockey ops we are f***ed no matter who is our GM/president.

Sunday - Both sides want to stay,
Monday - Both sides want to stay, (Dubas questions if he still wants to do it)
Tuesday - Shanahan has doubts?
Wednesday - Dubas agent tries to get more money and power. (NOTE: Found out tonight, he was still running the team meetings on how to improve the team)
Thursday - Dubas emails him saying he's committed
Friday - Fired.

I dunno, just seems like thing moved really quickly are weren't thought out as much as normal in a period in the organization where everything they do from now to the draft is super important.

That's going to happen when you try to strong arm negations.

 

[Leaf Fans]

He 100% used his family to negotiate through the press. Pretty obvious to see that.

It is not obvious at all. He answered a question asked by Chris Johnson.

 

[Torontonian]

He 100% used his family to negotiate through the press. Pretty obvious to see that



That's going to happen when you try to strong arm negations.

I guess so, but seems pretty short sited to fire him because of disliking how the negations have turned out. If it's MLSE that doesn't like it and told Shanahan to fire him, we are f***ed no matter who is brought in, as soon as owners feelings get in the way of what's best for the team and for hockey ops, we are in trouble.

 

[rocketman588]

It is not obvious at all. He answered a question asked by Chris Johnson.

Yes it's obvious if you actually have critical thinking skills

 

[Donnie740]

why are you so scared of quantifiable numbers? not even the biggest Dubas fan but why would you want to limit your use of tools or the tools you have at your disposal because numbers scare you?

every successful organization in hockey uses a statistical modelling system.

My issue with the over reliance on analytics is the nerds who cherry pick stats that fit their agenda and ignore stats that don’t.

Case in point - - Justin Holl had been on the ice for 70% of goals against in the playoffs, but Dubas’ hand picked buddy Keefe still insisted on force feeding Holl 20+ minutes of ice time.

Just watch the game and you’ll know Holl is a God-awful defenceman and a total liability every time he’s on the ice. You don’t even need to study a spreadsheet to figure that out.

 

[rocketman588]

I guess so, but seems pretty short sited to fire him because of disliking how the negations have turned out. If it's MLSE that doesn't like it and told Shanahan to fire him, we are f***ed no matter who is brought in, as soon as owners feelings get in the way of what's best for the team and for hockey ops, we are in trouble.

They had limited time to make a decision based on the contracts coming up. Had figured out a framework with the agent and gotten it changed last second

Every day that's wasted is big time this off season. You have to make quick decisions

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yes it's obvious if you actually have critical thinking skills

No, it isn't as one with critical thinking skills, I can inform you.

 

[rocketman588]

No, it isn't as one with critical thinking skills, I can see inform you.

I can see inform you eh. Thanks for proving my point

 

[Kiwi]

The one thing as I said earlier is that whoever takes over has no long-term issues on the roster. The only contract issue they have is the 1 year of Matt Murray to likely pawn off in some way. LTIR Muzzin could also be something they look at trading away but that's really not a priority. So whoever takes over doesn't have to worry about fixing a cap issue like most GMs have to do when they take over a team.

They obviously have a roster issue to fix whatever is going on and finding a coach that can push them into more than just being good in the regular season.

The new GM has Murray to get rid of somehow

An 11M Tavares for two more years

A questionable goaltending and defense situation

Missing at least 2 centers, probably 3 because Tavares can't drive play now

A broken core that can't get it done who are all about to get NMC and modified NTC clauses kicking in

That's brutal, Tavares is also a long term unmovable problem

Your being very nice about how bad this situation is, there's worse jobs around but this isn't a good situation and we've burned through a lot of our picks
The fact our core are entitled brats who pout when they don't have gobs of money thrown at them isn't exactly ideal either

This team needs a GM who's not going to take any ****, this is a business

 

[Leaf Fans]

I can see inform you eh. Thanks for proving my point

I can see inform you eh. Thanks for proving my point

You made no point. All you did was attempt to capitalize on an error I made on my phone which I will now correct.

 

[Squiffy]

Yes it's obvious if you actually have critical thinking skills

Ya, I still disagree. Think it was genuine. Went home Sunday and talked the family, learned something he didn’t expect to. Came in Monday rattled, clear. Sat on it, figured can’t do it without asking for world, thinking no problem will get it. Was wrong.

 

[Donnie740]

There’s no question Dubas used the press conference as a ploy to try and squeeze more money and/or power in a new contract.

Such a horrifically bad negotiating tactic.

 

[rocketman588]

Ya, I still disagree. Think it was genuine. Went home Sunday and talked the family, learned something he didn’t expect to. Came in Monday rattled, clear. Sat on it, figured can’t do it without asking for world, thinking no problem will get it. Was wrong.

But he can do it in Pittsburgh and Ottawa?

 

[Torontonian]

They had limited time to make a decision based on the contracts coming up. Had figured out a framework with the agent and gotten it changed last second

Every day that's wasted is big time this off season. You have to make quick decisions

You are correct, but in my opinion, making quick decisions can also be a bad thing, the new GM has roughly 6 weeks to:

1. Decide how he wants this team to play, and how he is going to get his team to play like how he wants with personal.
2. Decide on contracts for Nylander, Matthews if he wants them (more so on Matthews as he has his NTC on July 1st) and now has to sell his vision/idea to Matthews.
3. Decide on if Marner fits his team/vision as he has a full NTC kicking in on July 1st)
4. Figure out free agency etc.

Lot's for the new guy to do within a 6 week window, which leads to hasty decisions and mistakes. At least it will be exciting times for us coming up.

 

[Leaf Fans]

There’s no question Dubas used the press conference as a ploy to try and squeeze more money and/or power in a new contract.

Such a horrifically bad negotiating tactic.

There was no negotiation tactic the press conference.

 

[rocketman588]

You are correct, but in my opinion, making quick decisions can also be a bad thing, the new GM has roughly 6 weeks to:

1. Decide how he wants this team to play, and how he is going to get his team to play like how he wants with personal.
2. Decide on contracts for Nylander, Matthews if he wants them (more so on Matthews as he has his NTC on July 1st) and now has to sell his vision/idea to Matthews.
3. Decide on if Marner fits his team/vision as he has a full NTC kicking in on July 1st)
4. Figure out free agency etc.

Lot's for the new guy to do within a 6 week window, which leads to hasty decisions and mistakes. At least it will be exciting times for us coming up.

He'd have less time if Dubas decided to drag out the negotiations however. Every day also increased his leverage against MLSE as well

Him meeting with Keefe to go over stuff they can improve on also isn't a great sign

Keefe should have never been an option heading into next year no matter who is the GM

 

[Squiffy]

But he can do it in Pittsburgh and Ottawa?

Probably? I’m just guessing with everyone else. New place, reset, whatever was weighing him down , depends if it was Toronto specific or not. Just don’t buy 3D chess move on Monday presser, something shook him.

And so, as Shanny concluded, move on. All in as Leaf GM or not, not sure is not good enough.

 

[Donnie740]

Let’s be honest - - Leafs GM is the premier job in hockey. Obviously Dubas wanted to remain in the job, as would most anyone.

Imagine having a multi year offer at $4M per after accomplishing NOTHING for the past five years. Pretty much no accountability and the lowest of low expectations. And Dubas found a way to flush it down the toilet.

It was hilarious comedy to see his firing unfold, and as a Leaf fan I’m overjoyed this incompetent hack is finally done.

 

[rocketman588]

Probably? I’m just guessing with everyone else. New place, reset, whatever was weighing him down , depends if it was Toronto specific or not. Just don’t buy 3D chess move on Monday presser, something shook him.

And so, as Shanny concluded, move on. All in as Leaf GM or not, not sure is not good enough.

According to shanny they spoke about it prior to the presser and shanny even told him not to do it so I don't know. It seems like he was trying to set it up but can see both sides guessI

When you say I won't go anywhere but Toronto then start pining for jobs in Pittsburgh and Ottawa two days after getting canned you open yourself to looking like a slime ball