Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

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An idiot without a contract goes on tv and starts talking about how great the idea of trading away star players is. Never once thinking removal of the coach should be first or actually brining in a top 6 forward to help.
Just keep digging that hole
 
He'd have less time if Dubas decided to drag out the negotiations however. Every day also increased his leverage against MLSE as well

Him meeting with Keefe to go over stuff they can improve on also isn't a great sign

Keefe should have never been an option heading into next year no matter who is the GM
100% on Keefe not being an option, didn't like hearing at the presser on Monday how Keefe was able to adapt every series to help benefit the team. (I personally thought he rarely adapted). He had his chance with the team, but it's time to fire the coach and find someone else.
 
100% on Keefe not being an option, didn't like hearing at the presser on Monday how Keefe was able to adapt every series to help benefit the team. (I personally thought he rarely adapted). He had his chance with the team, but it's time to fire the coach and find someone else.

Yes that and the Wednesday meeting were definitely weird

I wonder how different this off season would be if we would have hired Cassidy or a less asshole version of him

Keefe had 9 lives for no reason
 
According to shanny they spoke about it prior to the presser and shanny even told him not to do it so I don't know. It seems like he was trying to set it up but can see both sides guessI

When you say I won't go anywhere but Toronto then start pining for jobs in Pittsburgh and Ottawa two days after getting canned you open yourself to looking like a slime ball
Yup. We will see. Any dignity dictates don’t take a job, take a year. Pretty greasy look to go somewhere now, I’d think he’s blackballed for the year.

Crazy few weeks coming. I thought I’d be mostly done here with game 5 gdt that I really had to force, but around now.
 
The new GM has Murray to get rid of somehow

An 11M Tavares for two more years

A questionable goaltending and defense situation

Missing at least 2 centers, probably 3 because Tavares can't drive play now

A broken core that can't get it done who are all about to get NMC and modified NTC clauses kicking in

That's brutal, Tavares is also a long term unmovable problem

Your being very nice about how bad this situation is, there's worse jobs around but this isn't a good situation and we've burned through a lot of our picks
The fact our core are entitled brats who pout when they don't have gobs of money thrown at them isn't exactly ideal either

This team needs a GM who's not going to take any ****, this is a business

Murray is hardly a difficult move. Honestly, wouldn't even be surprised if a team wants him in a trade if you retain 50% on him. UFA goalie market sucks and there is a lot worse you can do than him at 2.3 mill as a potential 1B. It is certainly better than a buyout, and the Leafs probably do not care about 2.3 mill in dead cap for next year as much as the 2 mill the year after when Matthews/Nylander expires. Not even worth whatever cost to dump him over the 2.3 mill in dead cap either, especially when you can probably a mid-round pick out of him at 50%.

I don't think the goaltending is a big issue. I mean 3/4 of the teams in the Conference Finals right now had massive goaltending question marks at some point this year. Florida started the playoffs with their 3rd stringer over their 10.5 mill goalie who has since taken back the job and is practically pulling a Price. Vegas has been running a carrousel of goalies all year. Carolina started with Raanta only to go with Andersen mid-way through the Islanders series. Meanwhile, likely Vezina-winner Ullmark crapped the bed in the playoffs again. Vasilevsky was beat by Samsonov. Hellebuyck, the only guy who could possibly be available to potentially improve our goaltending situation, crapped the bed. Good goaltending is important but we've also seen on many occasions that getting a top-notch guy could mean jack squat. It's not a total crap shoot, but Samsonov-Woll have earned enough trust to not make that any kind of concern for the next GM.

I guess defense could be a concern if the way they played in the playoffs is the new normal. Although they were excellent in the regular season and it would not be difficult for the new GM to make a splash in that area if they really wanted to. Likely would involve moving Brodie, and if he was made available, you can bet there would not be a shortage of potential suitors for him. Also a good number of solid UFA defensemen available too.

Tavares is around for 2 more years. That is hardly a "long term" problem. He was also still a PPG guy in the regular season, which made him 11th in the league out of centers (despite playing 1 minute less than the next lowest TOI of the bunch, and most guys playing 2-3 minutes more per game than him). Also one of the best faceoff and PP guys in the league last year. Let's be honest, if he was on the open market and chasing top dollar, he may not be making double digits but that number is easily starting with a 9 and likely goes longer than 2 years. So we are complaining about a PPG 1C caliber guy who is, at most, 2 mill overpaid for the next 2 years? I can guarantee you, there are very few, if any, teams that do not have at least one guy who is overpaid by at least that much, if not multiple guys and those guys are probably bottom 6 plugs you can easily find for cheap in UFA each year. He is also a guy who can easily still play at center full time next year... Worst case, you have to put a guy like Jarnkrok on there to compliment him and cover some of the pure speed responsibilities like Kerfoot did, and that is hardly the worst scenario in the world.

Meanwhile, Tavares is the only guy the Leafs would really have "trouble" moving if they ever wanted salary out... And it is really only trouble because he has a NMC that he almost certainly won't waive. Matthews, Marner, and Nylander would not be short for suitors and certainly gives whoever is taking over a ton of options to radically change this team. Brodie would not be either, although obviously not in the same way as the aforementioned 3. Muzzin is on LTIR and ARI or someone else would easily take him off our hands at practically no cost to us if we decided it was worth it. He makes 2 mill in real salary next year after July 1. Murray shouldn't be hard to move. That literally leaves Rielly as the only guy making over 2.1 mill, and Rielly is going nowhere.

This is certainly a "good" situation. Better than pretty much any situation a GM has walked into in the past except for maybe Tampa and Brisebois. The only "tough" part is figuring out where this team is going with the core. Certainly not understating the importance and difficulty of that decision, but at the same time, we are talking about 3 premier players in their primes and a team that mostly needs to act on its potential more than needing to build on it (even though the latter is arguably more preferable to some).
 
No one asked him about his family initially. He brought that up unprompted in the press conference.
That is correct. He mentioned wanting to discuss things with his family right at the beginning of the press conference; however, most of the substance came when Chris Johnson asked him to elaborate and he went into detail at that point.
 
Something went down Sunday night at Dubas HQ man, we willl never know probably, but has to be.
The rumour is MLSE wanted dubas to fire keefe and trade atleast one core player. Dubas countered with a financial package including full autonomy which was his way of getting out of firing keefe and or changing the core. Dubas was never firing keefe ever or trading any of the 4 core guys, he fell on his sword.
 
At the end of the day I truly think Shanahan didn't want Dubas back nor did Dubas really want to be here. He was most likely told you're back but need to fire Keefe and trade a core piece.

Best way to not do that?

Ask for more money and other concessions that you know you're not gonna get.

Case closed.
 
This organization is run by idiots.

Well taking into account the complete body of work. Yes, they are certainly idiots for having hired Dubas in the first place. I think that much is for certain at this point. Once all the overpays, the high rate of turnover of players, the lack of draft depth going forward etc are looked at, one can only conclude he was awful.

I think it's quite safe to say that Dubas was a Nonis level GM. That's really bad if you happened to like him too.
 
Also wanted to mention that going into the season as a lame duck coach or GM is never a good thing. Ego comes into it. I saw it with Trotz and the Caps and now with the Leafs and Dubas. I know Trotz won the Cup and then the narrative was that the Caps didn't want to pay him.

Truth was that Trotz already had decided during that season that he was slighted by the Caps by starting that season without a contract and nothing was bringing him back. Not even a Cup.

I know Dubas didn't win a Cup but never underestimate what pride and ego can do. On some levels I bet you he felt slighted and that friction between him and Shanahan was only getting worse.

I firmly believe that both sides wanted to part ways and did it in a way to save face and image.
 
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is this meant to insult the guy haha
Either way, he raises a good point on Dubas' drafting skills though.

You can't draft with what you don't have. I looked at the list, there was like 3 maybe ok players or something?
 
Curious to know what the moves are they vetoed that Dubas wanted to do.

They listed characteristics they want in their next GM which are characteristics I felt Dubas lacked.

Most people will assume Dubas had some cup winning moves lined up and conclude Shanahan is the real villain. I personally think the moves were more of the same checkers but think I'm playing 5d chess that he does.
 
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If Shanahan makes the right pick for GM, and it leads to team success nobody will be happier than me. But,....

I just think it's a bit funny that this thread is full of folks shredding Dubas to pieces, when Shanny spent his entire time here rubber stamping and approving almost every move Dubas made.

The next hire is probably going to be Shanahan looking for continuity than any radical change
He should have been canned as well. Ownership is useless.
.

To me it shows how bullshit his presser was dude goes on stage and complains about his family and then says it's Toronto or nowhere. Guess that was only true if he got 7 million a year

His word appears to be garbage. MLSE looking more and more in the right

Toronto or nothing ( if you pay me 7 mil and give me more power) if not I'll go to Pittsburgh

I'm so concerned about my family I'll move anywhere

Garbage person
Like Marner supposedly getting an offer sheet...
 
I would have stuck with Lou rather than going with Hunter or Dubas. As much as the Dubasites hate the dino, he deserved to continue but Kyle pulled a power play and got him ousted. Gord Stellick 2.0. At least Gordo had a valid excuse in Harold POS Ballard. With 3 draft picks won't allow him to scout outside a small area and Gord drafts 3 Bellville Bulls in the first round. What a shit show that was. LOL.
Lou was axed because potentially losing Dubas to Colorado scared Shanahan, I’m sure Lou would have kept gong here and perhaps Mark Hunter would eventually get the job. That single threat sent the Leafs on a course of geek hockey failure……….
 
wow who is the kyle kushman zoomer, must be a dubasite or something idk
Looks like he is simply quoting statistics. How does that suggest he sees the world through Dubas coloured sunglasses? The reality is that Dubas' drafting has been solid. The last draft, and 2020, look particularly promising. Where Dubas really failed were the two anchor contracts he signed with Marner and Matthews, and the rest of his tenure scrambling to fill in around the edges without the cap space to build the depth needed. That, and underestimating how nasty things get in the playoffs, and needing some snarl on the team to deal with that.
 
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Wow Siegel is a Dubasite. Yeah, the Toronto media is so tough on this team.
From what I’ve been reading there are two camps as to the media, first is the Dubas shills spewing anything to make boy wonder look good, the second are people ripping on Sanahan for meddling with boy wonders plan. First are pathetic jokes as sports “journalists“ the second are on the fence shills. Shanahan rightfully so should be ripped apart, but for the sole reason of hiring boy wonder and turfing Lou. This whole fiasco falls squarely on Shanahan’s shoulders……….

It'll be nice when Dubas gets a new job so you Dubas' Fans can leave us Leafs' Fans alone.
WORD……..
 
I swear to god the Dubas fan club is striken with Stockholm syndrome...let it go guys, he can't hurt you anymore.
Here’s hoping boy wonder get a new gig asap, then his minions can root for team Dubas whatever that team turns out to be………
 
From what I’ve been reading there are two camps as to the media, first is the Dubas shills spewing anything to make boy wonder look good, the second are people ripping on Sanahan for meddling with boy wonders plan. First are pathetic jokes as sports “journalists“ the second are on the fence shills. Shanahan rightfully so should be ripped apart, but for the sole reason of hiring boy wonder and turfing Lou. This whole fiasco falls squarely on Shanahan’s shoulders……….


WORD……..

Kyle Dubas is praised because he...

Never won anything significant during his time here
Cleaned out our picks for the foreseeable future in an attempt to win
Overpaid our core players and gave them NMCs all at once.
His own contract was timed with the NMCs activating.
Had possibly the highest turnover of any team for roster (not good for gelling a team)
Essentially conspired to have a good coach removed in Babcock.
Refused to fire a coach that was consistently not achieving.

This is your media professionals Toronto. Unsub, Unfollow before you start taking hits to your IQs.
 
One doesn't "allow" their boss to "interfere" in their decisions the Boss does so as he sees fit.
Who knows how bad things might have been if the president didn’t “interfere”. I have no love for Shanahan, this is his mess, if fact I’d be over the moon if ownership axed him once this mess is fixed…….
 
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Sounds to me like Kyle tried pulling a Marner /Nylander to negotiate and Shanny said see ya!

Hopefully that carries onto future negotiations with players
 
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