Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[Leafblooded]

This team is an absolute gong show. Embarassing

 

[ToneDog]

If MLSE and Larry has any competence they’d have canned Shanny first and foremost and then there’d be zero roadblock. If there is any shot he’d come, pack Shannys bags now and hand the keys to McPhee

Until Dummie pulled the family card, they were all coming back. There is little competence. Their saving grace is a passionate, loyal fanbase.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Why didn't JFJ land a top tier job and win a cup as the GM?

Your pro dubas and want him to succeed so your imagining scenarios where he and spezza (who has zero qualifications for being an AGM/GM) ending uo winning in Ottawa.

Its as easy to imagine Dubas goes out like Patrick Roy and isn't hired again with how he squandered a golden opportunity to win.

What he does next is irrelevent. He proved not capable in his 5 year tenure in toronto.

His negotiating skills were piss poor and his decision to try and ask for more money and power at the last minute shows he doesn't understand the piwer dynamics of NHL management structure. He was power hungry and tried to hype himself up as the next big thing

He will be forgotten like Mark hunter as we move onto our next era

I mean I opened the post with "Because we're the Leafs" and it was mainly a joke about how we're cursed and those that leave often experience success. But having said that, I think you're way off base and there's no chance Dubas goes the way of JFJ/Hunter in the NHL, he'll be a GM again whenever he wants to.

And Pickering is my hometown too, we could've been besties smdh

 

[Martin Skoula]

i predict tears from the other side going forward, book it............

Consider it booked………………………..

 

[7even]

The quote was " a New Financial Package " that means greedy Kyle got over the Family thing and it was all about the Money . Another lost negotiation for Dubas .

"My commute is 2 hours, give me another $15k to make it worth it" is not an unusual or exotic stance.

 

[ToneDog]

is it surprising that matthews has the best contract in the NHL? 11.6 AAV for 5 years with NMC walking right to UFA at a massive cap hit.

Thank you Kyle for $54.5m in bonuses on July 1st. Base salary is the minimum.

 

[hamzarocks]

I mean I opened the post with "Because we're the Leafs" and it was mainly a joke about how we're cursed and those that leave often experience success. But having said that, I think you're way off base and there's no chance Dubas goes the way of JFJ/Hunter in the NHL, he'll be a GM again whenever he wants to.

And Pickering is my hometown too, we could've been besties smdh

Eh sorry then didnt realize your being sarcastic.

He can become a GM, even go on to be great. Issue is he didnt work here and when he had the chance he didnt want ti work here

Shanahan is a snake in human skin to dont get me wrong.

Both are idiots, if they believed in dubas and the others give him an extension for 2 years at the TDL.

If dubas was fine with that short term committment at 4M he needs to sign it then.

Waiting last minute was dumb from both sides, and Dubas didn't "love" the Maple leafs if he couldn't put aside the crazy ask last minute

4M for 4-5 years is f*** you money if your smart at managing your finances.

He let his ego get to him on this one as did Shann

 

[HofT]

This isnt true. Shanahan said the discussions began in March and it wasnt necessarily Shanahan's decision to not offer an extension last year.

The context is that in the middle of March, Shanahan told Dubas that he will tell ownership group he liked Dubas's year and for Dubas to take time and think about. Fast forward to the end of our playoff run is when negotiations truly started.

 

[hamzarocks]

"My commute is 2 hours, give me another $15k to make it worth it" is not an unusual or exotic stance.

That may have made sense if you truly believe there is 2 hours of commute (he played the stress factor way to much as this is something all GMs of contending teams deal with)

But he didnt ask for 15K he asked to be paid more then any comparable in the NHL, he asked to be paid more then his direct boss Shanahan, he asked for more control and basically taking Shanahan's role and duties

No boss is going to give in to that type of demand last minute when your productivity is mostly future based with less then ideal output

 

[HofT]

They wanted him and told him not to do the press interview after the season until they signed the new deal they had in place and he said no and did the interview and used it as a negotiation tactic to try and get more money. I don't think that's ego getting involved, that's just someone seeing someone go against what they already had planned/worked on to squeeze every penny they could out of the org and they said we'll find someone who wants to be here and not just for the money. You don't get to play hardball when you haven't won anything. He gave our core everything when they didn't win anything and he thought he could do the same, only difference was he wasn't negotiating against himself. I don't know why people try and make this out to be an ego thing when it's just clearly taking a stand against someone who thought they could do whatever they want without bringing any results to the org in terms of post season success.

I see it as every GM doing the same thing for their team. It's a team sport and Dubas should be there as his players were also.

 

[ToneDog]

"My commute is 2 hours, give me another $15k to make it worth it" is not an unusual or exotic stance.

Sure but why ask for it last minute after waiting a week knowing the urgency?? It is unprofessional. Given the rumoured power struggle, he burned his last bridge.

 

[rocketman588]

Dubas needs to get his grandma off Twitter

She's not making him look any better

"My commute is 2 hours, give me another $15k to make it worth it" is not an unusual or exotic stance.

He asked for almost double his salary and one that was higher then every other GM in the league plus power.

After saying he wasn't sure if his family could handle the job two days prior

 

[TheGreenTBer]

In the end, Shanahan gave the shive to Dubas. No doubt he was political, but also the closest advocate for the Leafs as an organization in the middle of all this.

To use a Godfather reference to summarize how we got here, Dubas was Fredo making power moves to climb the family ladder to Shanahan's Michael. Never go against the family and you know the rest.

Send Sheldon out to do this, send Sheldon out to do that...

 

[ToneDog]

>>>>The culture starts from the top. If the GM isn't willing to take less to WIN; why would the players?



Thats a great point I never thought of before.

There is no cap against management. It's not even about taking a discount. He wanted to be overpaid like our 4 forwards. All 5 have won little but lined their pockets. Hopefully it stops with the new GM but I doubt it since Shanny is still at the top. He will beg for them to take discounts and they will flip him the bird.

 

[PromisedLand]

MLSE gave this generational GM his first chance.
Fired Lou and Babcock, two hall of famers and 6 Stanly Cups in between them

Just so Dubas can go hire Sheldon Keefe. Turn this organization into Macdonals of hockey

Losing to Zamboni driver, losing to Habs, losing to columbus. yet not firing his boy

All that was tolorated. He should be giving MLSE money for making his career

POS

 

[LeafEgo]

This is what doesnt quite add up to me. The only thing that seems to be "new" from that conference is Dubas potential to walk away. Shanny noted he was aware of the Family stuff

Shanny was being a pro, he made the reading between the lines as obvious as he could.

There was an unacceptable level of eratic behavior over the last week (many instances detailed) that left them stunned. The suggestion was, if we knew the more micro details, it was even worse. Their shockingly high level of patience ran out.

It sounds like they’ve been trying to control this problem for a while, and did a very bad job.

 

[thewave]

"My commute is 2 hours, give me another $15k to make it worth it" is not an unusual or exotic stance.

Your 15k request is not the same as taking a 4m offer and asking for 6-7m. That's apparently the number which if true is hilarious.

 

[Mike1]

Big mistake by this organization. This entire situation screams of ownership meddling. Shanahan wants to keep Dubas but all of a sudden because he asks for more money, he is gone. Why not negotiate with him? Or hold firm with said offer & tell him to take it or leave it? They wanted him gone.

Now with 5 weeks to go, you have to make important decisions with little time to do so. What kind of GM are you going to get now? Why not do this at a moment when you have time to review your options thoroughly? All of this screams of a lack of foresight & strategic thinking at the top. Too many simpleton board members who stroke their own ego pretending to be hockey men. You are not hockey men, you don’t know anything about the sport.

How is a new GM going to fix this team when he doesn’t know any of the players? The only person to fix this was Dubas because he knew this whole operation.

 

[PromisedLand]

So when a new GM comes in, hires a new coach and they’re both in agreement they want to keep the Core 4 together and put in players around them they feel would work, how we feeling about that? This could be a possibility with new people in place.

Depends on the cap allocation on how I will feel about it if that comes to pass. I am almost 99.999999999% certain that no sane GM is going to handcuff himself at the expense of keeping a few players happy.

It is about the Logo on the front not the name on the back.

If Leafs win the cup and the core 4 are not on the roster do you think Leafs nation is going to care?

 

[Gallagbi]

Shanny was being a pro, he made the reading between the lines as obvious as he could.

There was an unacceptable level of eratic behavior over the last week (many instances detailed) that left them stunned. The suggestion was, if we knew the more micro details, it was even worse. Their shockingly high level of patience ran out.

It sounds like they’ve been trying to control this problem for a while, and did a very bad job.

This take creates more questions than it solves to be honest

 

[ShaneFalco]

So when a new GM comes in, hires a new coach and they’re both in agreement they want to keep the Core 4 together and put in players around them they feel would work, how we feeling about that? This could be a possibility with new people in place.

Won't be happy but maybe they can get something out of them

that's what is bothering me... If you are president of a big company or franchise you should be prepared for the worst if you are going to make a decision like this. It just feels like he doesn't have anything in place or plan...which tbh is worrisome.

Unless you have a candidate in mind and are under the radar... Not being ready to go into a situation like this is frankly astonishing.

If they had an agreement in place there would be no need. But I'm sure they looked at options before this

 

[thewave]

There is no cap against management. It's not even about taking a discount. He wanted to be overpaid like our 4 forwards. All 5 have won little but lined their pockets. Hopefully it stops with the new GM but I doubt it since Shanny is still at the top. He will beg for them to take discounts and they will flip him the bird.

The guys the same snake oil salesman I thought he was when he was hired. Look what happened with Babcock and MLSE ate that. Now Murray and what was it like 50 contracts in last few years and most of them were rather redundant. Traded our futures away to create a competitive team and would have traded more this year no doubt.

If the accounts Shanny put together are all true and that's the reason, the fraudster got himself fired luckily for this franchises sake. It doesn't go over very well how blind the organization itself is though.

 

[justashadowof]

Mark Hunter as a viable candidate seems a bit laughable at this point. He should have made some hay in the NHL over the past 5 seasons since leaving the organization. London isn't much of a challenge since it's an open secret how the Knights game the system there. And he's hardly a spring chicken. I think most of us who were never Dubas fans still recognize that Dubas was a better choice than Hunter.

 

[orbiter11]

You have to also look at the product on the ice. Dubas is a good drafter and identifier of skill, I'll give him that. But he's horrible at contracts and makes to many moves when trying to solve a problem. I personally think he failed at the deadline. He made to many moves and are shot totals reversed as soon as the moves were made. We were regularly getting outshot as soon as the new players stepped in. I done care if Mcabe can hit the man can't control the puck or make a simple outlet pass so the puck stays in our zone for more shots against. It's the right move regardless of the drama. Hopefully someone will come in to normalize contracts and transactions. P.S were not moving Marner, we wouldn't be guaranteed playoffs if we did lol.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Big mistake by this organization. This entire situation screams of ownership meddling. Shanahan wants to keep Dubas but all of a sudden because he asks for more money, he is gone. Why not negotiate with him? Or hold firm with said offer & tell him to take it or leave it? They wanted him gone.

Now with 5 weeks to go, you have to make important decisions with little time to do so. What kind of GM are you going to get now? Why not do this at a moment when you have time to review your options thoroughly? All of this screams of a lack of foresight & strategic thinking at the top. Too many simpleton board members who stroke their own ego pretending to be hockey men. You are not hockey men, you don’t know anything about the sport.

How is a new GM going to fix this team when he doesn’t know any of the players? The only person to fix this was Dubas because he knew this whole operation.

It’s the principle.

Dubas went out to the public and made it seem like he was unsure if he wanted the role, which was uncalled for. Especially considering how Leafs org is always tight lipped about everything.

And then came back, responded through email (which is sad), and then decided to ask for more than the agreed upon deal.

That’s bad business. Not a good look, especially for a position as important as GM.

Was Dubas the best fit for the job? Maybe? But you can’t do that. There are other options out there. Let’s just hope we get the best one.