Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas Not Returning

[rumman]

Remember too that Dubas most likely ends up GM of another team.

Its a fraternity. Gotta keep things PC.

yup, you can't fleece a lamb that doesn't exist..........

 

[PromisedLand]

was this Shanahan's aha moment...........

is it surprising that matthews has the best contract in the NHL? 11.6 AAV for 5 years with NMC walking right to UFA at a massive cap hit.

 

[Superstar]

Because we're the Leafs, you know this ends with Dubas and Spezza going to Ottawa and winning a Cup

Dubas could trade us Tkachuk for Marner.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

9 "Analysts"
4 "Assistant General Managers"
3 "Video Coaches"
2 "Director of Player Personnel"
3 "Director of Hockey Operations"

Florida Panthers:

1 "Analyst"
2 "Assistant General Managers"
1 "Video Coach"
1 "Director of Player Personnel"
2 "Director of Hockey Operations"

The Leafs have more people in Data, Development, and Scouting than Florida.

- Toronto has 4 analysts + 4 video analysts + 3 Developers + 3 Directors = 14 people. Florida has 2 people probably wearing a bunch of hats + 2 Directors.
- Toronto has 20 Scouts + 1 Director. Florida has 15 scouts + 1 Director.
- Toronto and Florida each have 2 official video coaches.
- Toronto has 1 AGM handling contracts and cap + 1 AGM handling AHL + 1 Director of Player -Personnel. Florida has 2 AGM's handling contracts + 1 guy handling cap + 2 Directors of Player Personnel, including one who is handling AHL. Some of Florida's management are probably assisting with some of the Data responsibilities as well.

We probably also have more development coaches than Florida, but Florida only lists one "skills coach". I can guarantee that they have more than one skills coach, but they may just be consultants and not all teams list skill consultants on their team page. They also have an entire goalie department whereas we do not.

A team like Toronto having 5 more scouts than a team like Florida should be no surprise... We have significantly more resources than them. Some of our Data guys are specifically focused on scouting alone as well (i.e. they are specifically scouting video), and Florida would probably have a few more scouts themselves if they had more resources.

The main difference is the Data department. Having 3 dedicated developers + a director is really not a lot depending on what they are working on. The Leafs could probably live with fewer analysts if they had the right ones, but it once again depends on the work.

In terms of actual management (aka the people who make the decisions), the Leafs have fewer guys than the Panthers and most other teams. We just have a lot more support staff, which should also be no surprise considering our resources... And we arguably should be looking to add/promote a few more people to certain positions.

 

[Smif]

When was he gifted a contender?

I believe McPhee described the expansion process as an "asset buffet". GM's had no experience for the first expansion but were 1000x better during the Seattle expansion at protecting their assets.

 

[PromisedLand]

It's definitely the latter.

The culture starts from the top. If the GM isn't willing to take less to WIN; why would the players?

This franchise needed a culture shift and Shanahan put on his big boy pants and has just signaled the culture shift and accountability has just been ushered in the Leafs organization.

It is time to celebrate on how things are going to be done moving forward. Either you respect the Logo or you are not part of the Leafs organization. Period!

Its good to see Shanny holding firm into what he had initially said years ago

“We need players (now can add people/gm/executive/etc.) who want to be Maple Leafs,” Shanahan said when discussing his team in generalities. “This may not be for everyone.”

 

[Forecheck1]

An offer is not just money.

The quote was " a New Financial Package " that means greedy Kyle got over the Family thing and it was all about the Money . Another lost negotiation for Dubas .

 

[frog]

Possibly arrogant for Dubas to play hard ball with money when clearly his job was on the line. Shanahan made the point that he would talk to Dubas face to face and dubas would respond to shanahan via text and email or send his agent. Maybe he didnt want to be here and just wanted more money to pay for his reservations. Oh well

 

[Gallagbi]

Possibly arrogant for Dubas to play hard ball with money when clearly his job was on the line. Shanahan made the point that he would talk to Dubas face to face and dubas would respond to shanahan via text and email or send his agent. Maybe he didnt want to be here and just wanted more money to pay for his reservations. Oh well

That last piece is something that hasnt really been discussed or contemplated, it seems to be all "he blew it" talk eith Dubas, but theres a real chance his ask was what he needed to come back. His bottom line essentially

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

I believe McPhee described the expansion process as an "asset buffet". GM's had no experience for the first expansion but were 1000x better during the Seattle expansion at protecting their assets.

I think that’s likely an oversimplification.. he also built a damn good Caps team from scratch

 

[HofT]

the dubites feel he's the next coming of god, and so does dubbie .... i can't imagine someone so in demand having any concern around job security.....no worrying for him and/or his family.

he just misplayed his cards....again.

I mean, I'm just looking at the facts presented and forming a concise. valid opinion. Dubas did not have a contract for the entire year and it appears that the organization recently initiated discussions. Therefore, negotiations lasted for less than a week, as intended by the organization. Unfortunately, they chose to wait until the last moment and mishandled the entire process. Additionally, it was evident that Dubas had no intention of seeking alternatives.

In general, I get changing directions, but I hate when teams let a GM in the final year of a contract run the team anyway. It really does make no sense since he's putting his short term influence on his roster's composition strategy. Though, I really do think the Board of Directors and Shanahan had a much bigger voice in the composition of this team than we all think. It's why Shanahan is still here.

In the end, this organization has a huge ego, which is comical because this organization has been failure for 50+ years. It truly is a traditional curse that constantly happens.

 

[Menzinger]

The culture starts from the top. If the GM isn't willing to take less to WIN; why would the players?

This franchise needed a culture shift and Shanahan put on his big boy pants and has just signaled the culture shift and accountability has just been ushered in the Leafs organization.

It is time to celebrate on how things are going to be done moving forward. Either you respect the Logo or you are not part of the Leafs organization. Period!

Its good to see Shanny holding firm into what he had initially said years ago

“We need players (now can add people/gm/executive/etc.) who want to be Maple Leafs,” Shanahan said when discussing his team in generalities. “This may not be for everyone.”

Shanahan's vision for the team up until a few days ago was completely in line with Dubas -hence the attempted extension. I'm not sure we're going to see a radical departure from what's been going on in the past.

 

[3blizzard4]

The culture starts from the top. If the GM isn't willing to take less to WIN; why would the players?

This franchise needed a culture shift and Shanahan put on his big boy pants and has just signaled the culture shift and accountability has just been ushered in the Leafs organization.

It is time to celebrate on how things are going to be done moving forward. Either you respect the Logo or you are not part of the Leafs organization. Period!

Its good to see Shanny holding firm into what he had initially said years ago

“We need players (now can add people/gm/executive/etc.) who want to be Maple Leafs,” Shanahan said when discussing his team in generalities. “This may not be for everyone.”

>>>>The culture starts from the top. If the GM isn't willing to take less to WIN; why would the players?



Thats a great point I never thought of before.

 

[geo25]

My impression from the series of events culminating in Dubas departure is that this group including players is using the franchise to pad their bank accounts. Everything else is secondary at most. When that is the case, you should blow it up.

100% dead on...

 

[HofT]

NHL GMs and coaches are hired to be fired. Job security? LOL.

They should have fired Dubas last year than. It makes no sense for the organization to carry out a lame duck GM for an entire year. I get changing directions, but I hate when teams let a GM in the final year of a contract run the team anyway. They should have just fired him last year. Clearly, the possibility/probability of getting fired if the Leafs didn't make an extended playoff run influenced his roster composition strategy and how he looked at future assets/short term returns. This organization has stagnated this team this year and the foreseeable future. We literally do not have a plan right now.

Comically enough, it's Shanahan/Ownership group's word that they liked the construction of the team this year and still wanted Dubas. But ego got in their way and they reacted with an emotional response. Now, we're left scrambling and in a huge mess. As per tradition.

 

[PromisedLand]

Shanahan's vision for the team up until a few days ago was completely in line with Dubas -hence the attempted extension. I'm not sure we're going to see a radical departure from what's been going on in the past.

TBD

If Matthews, Marner are re-signed at 14 to 15 AAV then this can be revisited after I;ve stopped punching the wall and am able to type on HF of course

Agreed.... Shanahan showing that killer instinct.

Amen to that !!!

 

[PromisedLand]

It's not even shocking. He leaked stuff openly to Mirtle for years as AGM, and used it to posture getting Lou's job. But, people didn't want to hear it 5 years ago, and maybe don't want to hear it now.

Mirtle is a pos. he got fired from globe and mail for his incompetence, entitlement and child like behavior.

anyone that listens to mirtle needs to be not taken seriously IMO

 

[binop7]

Shanahan's vision for the team up until a few days ago was completely in line with Dubas -hence the attempted extension. I'm not sure we're going to see a radical departure from what's been going on in the past.

Shanahan had his Isaac Newton gravity discovery moment. It's clear the thinking has shifted.

 

[HofT]

Shanahan's vision for the team up until a few days ago was completely in line with Dubas -hence the attempted extension. I'm not sure we're going to see a radical departure from what's been going on in the past.

Absolutely. Shanahan and including ownership, has just as much influence over this team as Dubas did.

 

[notbias]

The quote was " a New Financial Package " that means greedy Kyle got over the Family thing and it was all about the Money . Another lost negotiation for Dubas .

It's also being reported it was more than that, so I guess either could be right.

 

[Nothingbutglass]

I mean, I'm just looking at the facts presented and forming a concise. valid opinion. Dubas did not have a contract for the entire year and it appears that the organization recently initiated discussions. Therefore, negotiations lasted for less than a week, as intended by the organization. Unfortunately, they chose to wait until the last moment and mishandled the entire process. Additionally, it was evident that Dubas had no intention of seeking alternatives.

In general, I get changing directions, but I hate when teams let a GM in the final year of a contract run the team anyway. It really does make no sense since he's putting his short term influence on his roster's composition strategy. Though, I really do think the Board of Directors and Shanahan had a much bigger voice in the composition of this team than we all think. It's why Shanahan is still here.

In the end, this organization has a huge ego, which is comical because this organization has been failure for 50+ years. It truly is a traditional curse that constantly happens.

This isnt true. Shanahan said the discussions began in March and it wasnt necessarily Shanahan's decision to not offer an extension last year.

 

[justashadowof]

9 analysts. Maybe an even 10 analysts might've cracked that impenetrable Florida defense for our $40M quartet.

 

[hamzarocks]

Because we're the Leafs, you know this ends with Dubas and Spezza going to Ottawa and winning a Cup

Why didn't JFJ land a top tier job and win a cup as the GM?

Your pro dubas and want him to succeed so your imagining scenarios where he and spezza (who has zero qualifications for being an AGM/GM) ending uo winning in Ottawa.

Its as easy to imagine Dubas goes out like Patrick Roy and isn't hired again with how he squandered a golden opportunity to win.

What he does next is irrelevent. He proved not capable in his 5 year tenure in toronto.

His negotiating skills were piss poor and his decision to try and ask for more money and power at the last minute shows he doesn't understand the piwer dynamics of NHL management structure. He was power hungry and tried to hype himself up as the next big thing

He will be forgotten like Mark hunter as we move onto our next era

 

[LaPlante94]

They should have fired Dubas last year than. It makes no sense for the organization to carry out a lame duck GM for an entire year. I get changing directions, but I hate when teams let a GM in the final year of a contract run the team anyway. They should have just fired him last year. Clearly, the possibility/probability of getting fired if the Leafs didn't make an extended playoff run influenced his roster composition strategy and how he looked at future assets/short term returns. This organization has stagnated this team this year and the foreseeable future. We literally do not have a plan right now.

Comically enough, it's Shanahan/Ownership group's word that they liked the construction of the team this year and still wanted Dubas. But ego got in their way and they reacted with an emotional response.

They wanted him and told him not to do the press interview after the season until they signed the new deal they had in place and he said no and did the interview and used it as a negotiation tactic to try and get more money. I don't think that's ego getting involved, that's just someone seeing someone go against what they already had planned/worked on to squeeze every penny they could out of the org and they said we'll find someone who wants to be here and not just for the money. You don't get to play hardball when you haven't won anything. He gave our core everything when they didn't win anything and he thought he could do the same, only difference was he wasn't negotiating against himself. I don't know why people try and make this out to be an ego thing when it's just clearly taking a stand against someone who thought they could do whatever they want without bringing any results to the org in terms of post season success.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

They should have fired Dubas last year than. It makes no sense for the organization to carry out a lame duck GM for an entire year. I get changing directions, but I hate when teams let a GM in the final year of a contract run the team anyway. They should have just fired him last year. Clearly, the possibility/probability of getting fired if the Leafs didn't make an extended playoff run influenced his roster composition strategy and how he looked at future assets/short term returns. This organization has stagnated this team this year and the foreseeable future. We literally do not have a plan right now.

Comically enough, it's Shanahan/Ownership group's word that they liked the construction of the team this year and still wanted Dubas. But ego got in their way and they reacted with an emotional response. Now, we're left scrambling and in a huge mess. As per tradition.

I cannot disagree with this assessment.