Kyle Dubas discussion

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Ehhhhh choosing the mid twenties AHL goalie of the year to be the back up over the 36 year old vet was always the move to make. Not every good bet pans out just like not every risk busts. He learned from that and obtained a back up that was so good he stole the starters job
It was a mistake that cost us a year and a half of points and ran Freddy into the ground.

He then followed it up by over paying a goalie that had been injured all year and then ran Campbell into the ground.

Besides jack which is an A+ move his goalie decisions have been atrocious
 
Meh, if there's no trust or comfort level with that organization because they leak things, it makes sense to walk away.

But things are leaked all the time and according to Allan Walsh the agents and media are used as a communication conduit. So take it or leave it.
Sure everything eventually leaks, that’s the nature of the industry and I don’t think kyles particular issue here was with that overall, but more in this instance specifically which to me indicates they were probably at a stage where the leak came from a place too high up Chicago’s chain of command to keep confidence in their integrity.
 
Best GM we've had in 20 years. Low bar to clear, and he's certainly made his share of mistakes, but I look around the league and I don't see many who are actually better at their jobs than Dubas is. Results are what matter in this business and he hasn't been able to get them, but honestly, I blame the players for losing to Montreal. The job of the GM is to put the best team on the ice, and while he inherited a good team I think he's done well to add value.

I have no problem talking about the mistakes that he's made with contracts, lost trades, or whatever ails you. But I have to hand the guy credit when I think that his mistakes at least made sense to try. And at the end of the day, I see the Leafs are consistently a top team. We don't have to be Tampa Bay for me to like the GM, and I'm not going to hate a guy when I think it's his players (looking at you Marner) letting him down. Accountability is important and while I understand that he may get a pink slip this summer if the Leafs don't win, that doesn't mean I have to like it. I'd consider it a damn waste.

Agreed. All things considering he hasn’t exactly had a normal four years… Babcock, Covid, key playoff injuries…

I think he’s coming into his own and we’d be foolish to move on at this time.

We can say all we want about lack of playoff success but at least we can talk about it……(insert Jim Mora “Playoffs”) I remember all those years. Dreadful.
 
Just curious... does anyone know how long a contract Dubas signed when he was named GM in 2018? It will be 4 years in May this year
 
It’s possible that he has learned from the mistakes he has made here and applies those lessons in the future. I’d be ok if he stayed even after a first round exit, but he would have to demonstrate that he has learned something by moving one of Nylander or Marner and also by unloading some of his buddies like Keefe, Holl, Engvall, etc.
I’ll agree with you here, if they falter in the post season and they sit on their hands again then all bets are off imo. I’d keep the coach, I think he’s pretty good. All the rest you mentioned along with Kerfoot and maybe muzz would all be up for consideration as well in an effort to change the mix.
 
Agreed. All things considering he hasn’t exactly had a normal four years… Babcock, Covid, key playoff injuries…

I think he’s coming into his own and we’d be foolish to move on at this time.

We can say all we want about lack of playoff success but at least we can talk about it……(insert Jim Mora “Playoffs”) I remember all those years. Dreadful.
Imagine this team but with a 90m cap? That’s what he was banking on when handing out those deals.
 
It was a mistake that cost us a year and a half of points and ran Freddy into the ground.

He then followed it up by over paying a goalie that had been injured all year and then ran Campbell into the ground.

Besides jack which is an A+ move his goalie decisions have been atrocious
Good thing he’s learned from mistakes and doesn’t sit on his hands and taking Lou’s advice of “have time, use it” to heart any longer.
I’m sure if there was an upgrade that moved the needle in net he’d of gone for it.
 
I think many of you that are calling for Dubas to be fired would be very disappointed by whomever his replacement ends up being
Why ? Who cares who his replacement might be as long as they improve the team. Dubas isn’t the only good GM candidate in hockey and they may need somebody who can make the tough decisions without having loyalty to the current players.
 
There's a fun case study. Everyone is in love with the team Sakic built right now in Colorado, but he has been GM for over 7 years there.

He took over after the Av's won their division and bowed out of the first round, having a core of Duchene, Landy, ROR, Mackinnon, Statsny & Barrie. With Varly in net.

They subsequently missed the playoffs the next 3 seasons finishing last, or near last, in the division. Can you imagine the outrage here over that? But he learned stuck with a plan, drafted key pieces like Rantanen, Makar (after a brilliant trade), and has the team in contender status. Yet they have not been past the second round under Sakic's reign.

So maybe there needs to be some long-term planning in mind and that GM's can learn.

I'm not sure firing him is the right answer, because I do believe the Leafs could do a lot worse for a GM.
We live in an immediate gratification society, Bert. If it isn't working all at once then throw it away, don't bother to fix it. Wife isn't putting out -- get a new one. Car needs some maintenance -- trade it in. The lane next to you looks faster -- change, change and change again. Prospects aren't developing fast enough -- bury them and then wonder why you can never develop your own players.

Patience is a virtue, but a rare virtue.

I think if the Leafs stick with their management team they will eventually succeed. Coaches eventually lose their voice, but good managers can last a very long time.
 
So now we’re criticizing someone for trying to get the best deal possible?
i'm just correcting you on what Dubie's plan was when he signed JT and it wasn't to wait for years for the cap to go up to be able to build a team around three 11m dollar forwards
 
Because we haven't been given any suggestion to think otherwise.

After last year's loss, the noise from the fans was excessive, but within and internally it appeared very quiet. We didn't hear about many tough questions being asked of MLSE about Shanahan, Dubas, and their spending.
We didn't hear any hints or whispers of this being a make-it-or-break it year for Kyle.
We certainly haven't heard anything to suggest that MLSE are ready to "clean house".
If any of those things actually existed, I'd agree with you and say you have a point.
But as of now, not a single one of them is true or applicable.
When you consider how many people cover this team or are close to this team, let's face it - if MLSE were sharpening the knives, we'd have been given some sort of suggestion or hint by now.
The fact that we haven't, is why I believe he's going to be fine assuming they don't get embarrassed.
The one thing we can say about this Maple Leafs front office - they have become very good at blocking out the noise & distraction of the marketplace and just focusing on what needs to be done. Even if fans are enraged by another R1 loss, I don't think that's enough to move the needle unless the media really gets involved.
He’s gone if they lose in the first round. It’s his coach, his team, he wears it. Only a loser organization keeps accepting embarrassment year after year, he’s had his bullets. I’ll leave his own words to start this season:

“That can only be achieved in the playoffs. When we don’t reach that in the playoffs, I think you have to be very realistic and objective in saying you fell short.” But he didn’t stop there, adding, “it is certainly fair to say that if there aren’t changes in our performance, in the end, there will be changes to the organization. I think that comes with the territory of operating in a market like this and operating with a team that hasn’t reached its potential in the playoffs thus far.”
 
he was banking on the kids taking discounts that's why he went on the ''we vs me'' endless media campaign

No, he was banking on the salary cap expanding as it should have except for we experienced this whole global pandemic thing.
Kyle Dubas has been an amazing GM, I really hope Shanahan and MLSE don't listen to these idiotic fans calling for his head. This is the best Toronto Maple Leafs team in decades, with the most skilled team we have ever had.

Our drafting has improved 10 fold, there are so many prospects on their way into this league with Niemela, Knies and Robertson looking to be the creme of the crop.

Then you look at Bunting, Kase, Kampf as recent guys who have exceeded expectations, all brought in by Dubas. You can criticize Mrazek and Ritchie, but he's already corrected his mistake with Ritchie and it sounds like Mrazek could be moved this summer.

If you really want to criticize him over the Marner & Matthews contracts, its literally been made up for by moving Hyman and bringing in Bunting. There's 4M+ in savings right there. That 100% covers the 2M that Mitch is overpaid.

The thing that sucks is we now need Mitch and Auston to lead this team deep into the playoffs, and if you guys had a crystal ball to see that they would struggle in the playoffs, why didn't you let everyone know 4 years ago?
 
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I believe you’re full of shit, so there’s that. Is someone in management supposed to say they don’t have faith in the players in their organization? It’s such a weird thing where a bunch of you try to hang Kyle with the answers he gives to the media, as if he didn’t apprentice under Lou and work in the same organization as Masai.
Dubas is no Masai and neither is Shanahan. They don’t hold the players accountable. Keefe tells it like it is about their play being soft and purposeless. Dubas rakes him over the coals so Keefe has to backtrack. Losing is too easily accepted by management, the players and a lot of the fan base. They haven’t won in the playoffs because they don’t rise to the occasion and Dubas continues to go with the same core group. No urgency to win. Blue and White disease rains supreme.
 
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He’s gone if they lose in the first round. It’s his coach, his team, he wears it. Only a loser organization keeps accepting embarrassment year after year, he’s had his bullets. I’ll leave his own words to start this season:

“That can only be achieved in the playoffs. When we don’t reach that in the playoffs, I think you have to be very realistic and objective in saying you fell short.” But he didn’t stop there, adding, “it is certainly fair to say that if there aren’t changes in our performance, in the end, there will be changes to the organization. I think that comes with the territory of operating in a market like this and operating with a team that hasn’t reached its potential in the playoffs thus far.”
Are the Avs a loser franchise for sticking with sakic when he took a playoff team with Mack duchene landy etc to three straight finishes in the central basement? David Poile is literally the only gm nashville has ever had and they always stay competitive.
 
Those seems like words to strike fear into people. We can't move away from this guy because the next guy (whom we have less than 0% idea it will be) will be worse.

Fear will not stop fans wanting the best for this organization.
Can’t it work the other way and the next guy might be better?
 
Are the Avs a loser franchise for sticking with sakic when he took a playoff team with Mack duchene landy etc to three straight finishes in the central basement? David Poile is literally the only gm nashville has ever had and they always stay competitive.
What a terrible analogy, I recall watching them the last three years after we lost in the first round.
 
Imagine this team but with a 90m cap? That’s what he was banking on when handing out those deals.
So would every other team. Also it’s not just the Leafs that had to deal with the covid cap. He needed to adjust to the fact that the cap was going to go up but instead he opted to keep going with the core 4 taking 40% of the cap.
 
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