Kyle Dubas discussion II

[ToneDog]

Dubas gets no credit for the elite players but gets blamed for their playoffs failures l

He bet everything on them.

 

[zeke]

He bet everything on them.

But gets no credit for them.

 

[4thline]

He bet everything on them.

Sooo, he could have not bet on them? Decided to do something else?

 

[PromisedLand]

He was drafted during Dubas’ time as interim GM

Marner was a hunter pick FYI

 

[ToneDog]

But gets no credit for them.

Not sure why the conversation has come to this. Dubas' fate comes down to winning in the playoffs. He can finish 1st every year but how many first round losses does he and the core get before somebody decides they cannot run it back? I liken it to stand Pat Gillick. Needed to make the Alomar trade to get the team over the hump.

 

[zeke]

Not sure why the conversation has come to this. Dubas' fate comes down to winning in the playoffs. He can finish 1st every year but how many first round losses does he and the core get before somebody decides they cannot run it back? I liken it to stand Pat Gillick. Needed to make the Alomar trade to get the team over the hump.

It's come to this because you argue both ends to make sure Dubas never gets credit.

 

[PromisedLand]

Waiver claim casualties coupled with Dubas' finds that could become available, I think bode well in any future deals Dubas chooses to or has to leverage.

We're at a point in the Dubas conversation where criticism is now beyond whether he's a good GM; it's moved to the is he THE GM that's going to give us the best shot once and for the foreseeable future...

...I can't find reasons why he wouldn't be.

50 wins, 6th best differential, and with an asterisk given that Campbell dip. A dip that still finds him: 29-9-5 on the season, and as a Leaf: 49-14-8 in 74 games.

My view is that Dubas dropped the ball on the core contracts; this team could be stacked if he had a few more millions to add

That said, after dropping the ball on core contacts I think he has navigated fairly well given the cap constraint of his own doing.

Post season this year should hopefully provide an answer as to whether Dubas’ actions post core contracts were enough to have a net benefit.

Bunting, Gio, Kase, Kampf, Boosh have been solid adds. But are they enough… TBD

 

[ToneDog]

Sooo, he could have not bet on them? Decided to do something else?

He is sticking with the core and can continue to do so until they win or the core gets enough kicks at the can or he can decide to move on from the core.

 

[ToneDog]

It's come to this because you argue both ends to make sure Dubas never gets credit.

He gets credit for building great regular season teams as he should. It is why I said he stays unless they are embarrassed in round 1.

 

[4thline]

He is sticking with the core and can continue to do so until they win or the core gets enough kicks at the can or he can decide to move on from the core.

But he could have made decisions that would have lead to us not having Matthews with 2 years left on his contract, either/both of Marner/Nylander even on the team correct?

 

[zeke]

He gets credit for building great regular season teams as he should. It is why I said he stays unless they are embarrassed in round 1.

He was literally not getting credit for that right here in this convo.

 

[hotpaws]

That is your belief. My belief is that Dubas should and does get full credit for constructing the team as it is today.

So at least your admitting you believe Mathews and Marner wouldn’t have improved after their 2nd year if Dubas wasn’t GM , that’s a strange opinion to have but your entitled to have it .

and no one’s arguing that you can give Dubas credit for everything since everyone is entitled to their beliefs

 

[zeke]

So at least your admitting you believe Mathews and Marner wouldn’t have improved after their 2nd year if Dubas wasn’t GM , that’s a strange opinion to have but your entitled to have it .

and no one’s arguing that you can give Dubas credit for everything since everyone is entitled to their beliefs

It's amazing how every player you were wrong about just suddenly "massively improved".

 

[All Mod Cons]

Marner came while he was at the helm.

Give us a comparison of the 105 point d corps and rest of the forwards.

To be fair there's a lot of confusion as to who is responsible for 2015 draft picks. If we credit him for Marner, he'd also have to be responsible for Dermott, Bracco, Nielsen, Dzierkals, Lindgren, Timashov, Desrochers and Korostelev.

Not a great haul in all honesty.

 

[ITM]

My view is that Dubas dropped the ball on the core contracts; this team could be stacked if he had a few more millions to add

That said, after dropping the ball on core contacts I think he has navigated fairly well given the cap constraint of his own doing.

Post season this year should hopefully provide an answer as to whether Dubas’ actions post core contracts were enough to have a net benefit.

Bunting, Gio, Kase, Kampf, Boosh have been solid adds. But are they enough… TBD

But is that an open question in light of unforeseen events (ie C-19 era NHL cap) that followed? Including perhaps, the development of our players commensurate with their contracts?

It's interesting because Matthews, Marner and Nylander are either at value or better value than their contracts - now. I don't think that's disputed.

When the contracts were signed obviously there was (appropriate) discomfort given comparisons with the league's (then) better players.

Contract negotiations anticipate future contribution. I think Dubas was right in that respect. Perhaps we're angry at the stage at which those contracts were negotiated.

Playoffs oncoming, and as you noted: TBD...to a point, I'd add.

 

[hotpaws]

Dubas gets no credit for the elite players but gets blamed for their playoffs failures l

Nope , he gets blamed if he can’t build a team around them if the team doesn’t have playoff success .

Just like Shero got blamed and fired for continual failure after winning a cup early in Sid/Geno’s arrival .

Which proved to be a wise decision since Rutherford came in and won b2b cups .

 

[Leaf Fans]

So at least your admitting you believe Mathews and Marner wouldn’t have improved after their 2nd year if Dubas wasn’t GM , that’s a strange opinion to have but your entitled to have it .

and no one’s arguing that you can give Dubas credit for everything since everyone is entitled to their beliefs

I haven't admitted that at all. Why are you saying they wouldn't? It is likely that they would have although we will never know for sure, but there is a high probably that they would have. It is irrelevent as it involves an imaginary situation. Anyway, what we do know is that they did in fact improve with Dubas as a GM. Yes, of course I can give credit to Dubas for constructing the team. As a separate issue yes we are entitled to our beliefs.

 

[hotpaws]

It's amazing how every player you were wrong about just suddenly "massively improved".

don’t have a clue what your talking about but I’m not here to spoil your day so hopefully the leafs can go on an extended playoff run so you don’t have to do your annual year end disappearance after another one of your cup winning predictions turns out wrong

 

[ITM]

To be fair there's a lot of confusion as to who is responsible for 2015 draft picks. If we credit him for Marner, he'd also have to be responsible for Dermott, Bracco, Nielsen, Dzierkals, Lindgren, Timashov, Desrochers and Korostelev.

Not a great haul in all honesty.

Draft pick swings and misses being what they are: Let's go full circle: I was banging the drum for Clague or Hart. They're not really kicking down doors now are they? Hart threatened but he's kind of - sadly - veering a la Steve Mason.

Mea culpa again: Debrincat and Fox were on my radar...but...like everyone else nowhere near where they should have been.

And fair being fair, the advanced stats on guys like Timashov and Bracco weren't entirely unjustified. Timashov's kind of a wash though being in the 5th. But Bracco was a miscalculation.

Granted not like selecting Dermott over Aho...Sonuva...!

 

[zeke]

don’t have a clue what your talking about but I’m not here to spoil your day so hopefully the leafs can go on an extended playoff run so you don’t have to do your annual year end disappearance after another one of your cup winning predictions turns out wrong

You know what I'm talking about, of course.

And its cute that you think me not posting everyday all offseason is a gotcha.

 

[hockeynorth]

Marner was obviously a Hunter pick .

If you want to give credit to Dubas then it should be for going to Shanny and having him force Hunter to draft Korshov which followed Dubies philosophy of drafting based on inefficiencies which he believes are over agers and Smurfs .

and if you can find and draft an over age Smurf like Big Mac Holliwell then you’ve hit the Jackpot !!!

this is satire right

 

[hotpaws]

You know what I'm talking about, of course.

And its cute that you think me not posting everyday all offseason is a gotcha.

Hardly ever have an idea what your talking about , lol

Oh and you post in the off season , you just disappear fir a while before popping up again .

 

[Morbo]

If he was making $7-8 million there would be no complaints.

yeah but since that is obviously silly, it doesn't help the cause of the complaints.

he's overpaid by between 1 and 2 million. welcome to signing players in unrestricted free agency.

 

[Morbo]

Campbell isn’t what needed upgrading Kallgren is.

we'll see about that.

 

[ACC1224]

we'll see about that.

Yep hopefully it’s a non issue.
I think most would have preferred he prepared for the worst.