Kyle Dubas discussion II

[BrannigansLaw]

Any discussion about him at this point basically hinges on his goaltending gamble this year and whether the core shows up. The regular season results look great though and I’m pretty optimistic about this group going into the postseason. Matthews and Marner look mature and ready

 

[Nylanderthal]

There was availability - it's just a matter of Dubas not wanting to part with 1sts. The ask for Gibson was high - so I get not going for him. But I would much rather have a veteran guy like Craig Anderson as a backup over Kallgren/Mrazek. He probably could have been had for a 3rd and was reported available.

You have proof there were better options available in net? I haven’t heard a thing about a guy like helle bring available. I’d question if Gibson was either available or even worth it when looking at his track record the last three seasons, and it’s questionable if any of the guys who moved are clear upgrades over Campbell (or mrazek when healthy) when looking at what they can offer the team.

 

[JKG33]

LA were the two in something like a 25-30 year period (I think it was since a 21 team league?).

So yeah, seeding does matter. Moreso in the sense that if you aren't a top 4, you basically aren't good enough to run the distance 9.5 times out of 10. Please note as well that in 2/3 examples, those teams went on absolute long runs.

My 3 in 10 (4 in 10 if you count 2021 Tampa) is a large enough and more recent sample size. So no, seeding isn't the be all end all.

Obviously more often than not the better teams finish higher. But for every team that dominates the regular season and wins the cup (like say Pittsburgh), theres also teams like Toronto (last year) or San Jose (late 2000's till mid 2010's) or Vancouver (late 2000's till 2012ish) that look great in the regular season and fail to win when it counts.

 

[AuraSphere]

You can't just keep going out and adding people without a rippling effect and roster issues arising. Anderson wasn't going to give us world class goaltending, he's a .896% goaltender, granted for a bad team. Why waste a top 90 pick on a 40-41 year old? Kallgren was fine. Woll was fine but got injured. Mrazek was healthy, albeit he sucked and got injured. Campbell was going to be the guy regardless. If the best goaltender Dubas could get for depth was Anderson... I am glad they didn't do anything.

Dubas was never going to find a good goaltender for both the cap space we had and the assets we had to give. If you can't accept that, I'm not sure Dubas can ever win you over.

Your entitled to your view, I'm entitled with mine. All I'm saying is that it's obvious our goaltending is the only make or break piece going into these playoffs. If we fail because of goaltending - it is a big knock on Dubas and especially because of the stupid move of signing Mrazek to begin with. Most of the fan base here knew it was a terrible signing the minute it happened and I imagine you yourself probably thought the same as a majority of this fanbase.

He had an opportunity to redeem himself at the deadline. I get not wanting to trade Knies - but he didn't even wanna move the 1st for a win-now team.

Overall - if the team loses because of goaltending - it will 100% be because of Dubas whether you accept it or not.

 

[The Podium]

Your entitled to your view, I'm entitled with mine. All I'm saying is that it's obvious our goaltending is the only make or break piece going into these playoffs. If we fail because of goaltending - it is a big knock on Dubas and especially because of the stupid move of signing Mrazek to begin with. Most of the fan base here knew it was a terrible signing the minute it happened and I imagine you yourself if you watch hockey would have thought the same as a majority of this fanbase.

He had an opportunity to redeem himself at the deadline. I get not wanting to trade Knies - but he didn't even wanna move the 1st for a win-now team.

Overall - if the team loses because of goaltending - it will 100% be because of Dubas whether you accept it or not.

Anyone who watches hockey knows Mrazek isn’t an 0.888 goalie… what an odd take.

You can question his injury history, but Mrazek is (was) the definition of a reliable tandem goalie.

 

[Menzinger]

There was availability - it's just a matter of Dubas not wanting to part with 1sts. The ask for Gibson was high - so I get not going for him. But I would much rather have a veteran guy like Craig Anderson as a backup over Kallgren/Mrazek. He probably could have been had for a 3rd and was reported available.

Plenty of teams were looking for improvements in net this season but the fact that only a single one of note (Flurey) was actually traded should be quite telling about the state of the goalie market right now. Simplest explanation is guys weren't available and those that were had extremely high prices.

 

[JKG33]

Plenty of teams were looking for improvements in net this season but the fact that only a single one of note (Flurey) was actually traded should be quite telling about the state of the goalie market right now. Simplest explanation is guys weren't available and those that were had extremely high prices.

Many teams may have been looking for upgrades, but how many supposed contender have worse goaltending than the Leafs right now?

 

[AuraSphere]

Anyone who watches hockey knows Mrazek isn’t an 0.888 goalie… what an odd take.

You can question his injury history, but Mrazek is (was) the definition of a reliable tandem goalie.

This is what stat watchers say and which is what I think Dubas made his decision off of in the off season. If you think I'm wrong, you can go to the thread from this past summer when the signing was announced and see myself along with several other posts calling it a horrible signing. Mrazek has always been insanely bad to average outside of his first couple seasons in the NHL. He hasn't been good since 2016. Carolina's defensive system is known to make poor goaltenders look good.

Whether you believe it or not - you can look at my history and you'll see i'm not making shit up when I said mrazek was a bad signing and a horrible goaltending even before his first game as a Leaf.

Your line of "anyone watches hockey" is such an odd take itself as you couldn't see Mrazek was a bad goalie before his first game as a Leaf while a majority of this fan base knew it from the gecko.

 

[AuraSphere]

Plenty of teams were looking for improvements in net this season but the fact that only a single one of note (Flurey) was actually traded should be quite telling about the state of the goalie market right now. Simplest explanation is guys weren't available and those that were had extremely high prices.

Yeah this is a good take - you're not wrong. Who knows what was available. I just wish this was the year we used a 3rd for depth goaltending rather than last season

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Other thread was full. Continue here.

Just II?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Can the Leafs have an embarrassing loss if they are playing Florida or Tampa?

Absolutely have you watched this team play? they can skate with ANYBODY in this league

they can beat anybody it just depends on if Jack Campbell is going to pull his head out of his ass and choose to actually do his job which he hasn't done since December.

if they get Jack Campbell from last night, they can beat anybody, Tampa included.

I personally want Boston because they are the demon, and I want to slay the demon but if Campbell plays like an actual NHL goalie again then they can beat anybody.

but then again even if he does you still need a goalie because Marazek simply can't come back he looks done 32 games combined in 2 years, that's all he's played

 

[Menzinger]

There are 31 other teams in the league, there is always a way to make something happen.

Obviously he knew there was a need but decided against paying the price to fill the need.
If that holds the team back that has to be on him.

There's certainly always a way to make things happen, but doesn't mean it should be the right call. I'm sure if Dubas' was willing to trade a couple 1st round picks he could have bought a goalie for example, but that doesn't mean it would have been the right call.

Tampa was aggressive at the tdl. Though at the moment they may be wishing they could have a do-over.

 

[tmlfan98]

Actually it does. I haven't looked in recent years but for something like a 25 - 30 year period, only twice did a team seeded lower than 4th in their conference (in a regular season) win the Cup.

Just getting in usually doesn't work.

Not only that, ever since the NHL expanded to 21 teams in 1979, only 2 teams that didn't finish in the top 10 in the league standings in the regular season have won the cup: Kings in 2012 and Blues in 2019 (but this one is an asterisk because Blues only finished outside the top 10 due to the ROW tiebreaker).

So in 42 seasons since then, top 10 teams in the league have gone 40/42.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I don’t understand his deadline thoughts

Campbell was struggling really bad

Mrazek was garbage and injured

We were running a fourth string goalie

We were having our best offensive year ever. Everyone having career ofensive production

We 100 per cent needed a goalie no question

Didn’t want to give up a first to get fluerey. Why not. The first is going to be anywhere from 26-32. The player we pick there in a poor draft may never make it to the show and even if he does it’s 3/4 years away.

Of all years this is the one to get a goalie and he didn’t.

This 100%.

 

[AuraSphere]

Anyone who watches hockey knows Mrazek isn’t an 0.888 goalie… what an odd take.

You can question his injury history, but Mrazek is (was) the definition of a reliable tandem goalie.

Confirmed Signing with Link: - [TOR] Petr Mrazek signs with the Maple Leafs (3 years, $3.8M AAV)

hfboards.mandatory.com

Just look at post #4 from a detroit fan when the signing was announced- heck just read the first 2 pages and you'll see literally everyone calling it a bad signing. Saying anyone who watches hockey knows Mrazek is decent is an odd take itself. Clearly you don't watch hockey. A majority of the hockey world that don't stat watch knew.

 

[The Podium]

This is what stat watchers say and which is what I think Dubas made his decision off of in the off season. If you think I'm wrong, you can go to the thread from this past summer when the signing was announced and see myself along with several other posts calling it a horrible signing. Mrazek has always been insanely bad to average outside of his first couple seasons in the NHL. He hasn't been good since 2016. Carolina's defensive system is known to make poor goaltenders look good.

Whether you believe it or not - you can look at my history and you'll see i'm not making shit up when I said mrazek was a bad signing and a horrible goaltending even before his first game as a Leaf.

Your line of "anyone watches hockey" is such an odd take itself as you couldn't see Mrazek was a bad goalie before his first game as a Leaf while a majority of this fan base knew it from the gecko.

Classic hindsight verification.

Carolina isn’t some magic organization that can make an AHL goalie into a reliable starter. Especially compared to a good defensive team like the Leafs.

For someone who supposedly watches a lot of hockey it’s actually funny that you, not once, mentioned his inconsistency. The problem with Mrazek hasn’t been his body of work, but his lengthy hot and cold streaks. His career has been plagued with stretches where he is either the best or worst goalie in the league.

That doesn’t mean he isn’t a 0.910 tandem goalie having an awful season. Just like Ritchie wasn’t an ECHL caliber forward like he was while here.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Many teams may have been looking for upgrades, but how many supposed contender have worse goaltending than the Leafs right now?

How many of the options that moved would be a significant upgrade to what Campbell is when playing well?

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Everybody hates losing in the playoffs, but it seems like some people here don't know what an "embarrassing loss" actually is. Getting swept is embarrassing. Largely outplaying but losing to an equal/better team (or even a lesser team that goes on to have significant success) in the maximum number of games while missing key players is disappointing, not embarrassing. The most "embarrassing" thing about our playoff losses is the reaction from our "fans".

Look at the narrative shifting. WOW.

Anything less than making the Stanley Cup Finals is unacceptable. Period.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Of course if they are swept, blow a 3-1 series lead, game #7 no shows, get run out of the building etc.

IMO Leaf fans will accept a round 1 loss if they compete and lose like they did against Washington or Boston but not what we saw against Columbus and Montreal.

I won't. Participation Ribbons are not the goal here, folks.

 

[JKG33]

How many of the options that moved would be a significant upgrade to what Campbell is when playing well?

If he's playing well they wouldn't need a goalie and this discussion would be irrelevant

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I love it when people complain about a PPG #1C who is a good two-way player and one of the best face off guys in the league.

If that’s our biggest burden of a contract, we are in good shape.

If he was making $7-8 million there would be no complaints.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

the idea behind signing Marazek was correct, you needed a veteran backup behind Campbell because had not proven himself as a starter, in fact I would suggest you still need that because Campbell's play has fallen off the face of the earth since December at this point I would suggest you need a starter, but I digress.

The idea behind Marazek was correct but Marazek himself was the WRONG guy.

I wonder if they wouldn't have been better off paying for Keumper and going with Kempeur/Campbell

I'm wondering if they should try to sign him in UFA if he gets there

I don't know that Campbell can be the guy long term.

 

[The Podium]

If he was making $7-8 million there would be no complaints.

These are 7-8 mill players that signed around the time of Tavares (2018 or 2019)

Kevin Hayes
Brayden Schenn
Logan Couture
Matt Duchene

So…. Ya, he’s probably a 9 mill even today

 

[hockeynorth]

Any discussion about him at this point basically hinges on his goaltending gamble this year and whether the core shows up. The regular season results look great though and I’m pretty optimistic about this group going into the postseason. Matthews and Marner look mature and ready

Yeah he's choosing to ride or die by Jack Campbell. If goalies falter, it's on him, if 34 and 16 don't show up, I'd argue that's more on the players and Keefe. Dubas has bet big on Jack Campbell before (Soo Greyhounds) and it didn't work, here's hoping this time is different.

 

[hockeynorth]

Campbell:

Fleury:

Soups season save percentage of .912 is .005 above the league average .907, while Fleury has a .910. They're basically the same.