Kyle Dubas discussion II

[deprw]

There are 31 other teams in the league, there is always a way to make something happen.

Obviously he knew there was a need but decided against paying the price to fill the need.
If that holds the team back that has to be on him.

Like said we had all the goalies we needed during TDL, after that we lost Mrazek. We don't know about negotiations, but some were pretty angry when we overpaid for Foligno. I think that would have been option with goalie, without knowing real names it's impossible to speculate. Way Dubas handled Giordano situation I think he didn't have reasonable options. I trust Kallgren more than Wedgewood, because mid-season goalie acquisitions are usually bit tricky, that position is voodoo.

We'll see how this ends, but I'm happy we didn't mortgage our future during TDL. This isn't sprint this is marathon.

 

[ACC1224]

What G was available, worth the price and fit the cap?

Maybe Kahkonen, but that was a Campbell like gamble and still costed a D that was rumored to cost 2x2nds or a late 1st.

It’s easy to blame him for inactivity, but it’s also extremely difficult to make those moves mid-season.

No idea and I agree it’s not an easy job. When you hold an elite position you should be held to high expectations

 

[zeke]

No but if the Leafs had the same defensive stinginess I don't think they'd be blowing 3-0 leads to Columbus.

Columbus' stingy D blew a 3gl lead against us.

And of course, our defense last year and this year is much better than the one that faced Columbus.

 

[Sypher04]

90% of the fanbase talked all year about how elite we were. Elite D, Elite G and Elite F.

Now we're saying we were as Elite as the Columbus f***ing Blue Jackets?

That was a bumpy regular season regardless of if some fans might have claimed we were elite or not, we were not playing like it.

 

[IPS]

Columbus' stingy D blew a 3gl lead against us.

And of course, our defense last year and this year is much better than the one that faced Columbus.

Never questioned the offensive capability of the big 4. Getting shutout the next game sure stung though.

Indeed it is, which is why I'm optimistic. A lot of it hinges on Campbell being healthy though, which is a bit nerve racking.

 

[ACC1224]

Like said we had all the goalies we needed during TDL, after that we lost Mrazek. We don't know about negotiations, but some were pretty angry when we overpaid for Foligno. I think that would have been option with goalie, without knowing real names it's impossible to speculate. Way Dubas handled Giordano situation I think he didn't have reasonable options. I trust Kallgren more than Wedgewood, because mid-season goalie acquisitions are usually bit tricky, that position is voodoo.

We'll see how this ends, but I'm happy we didn't mortgage our future during TDL. This isn't sprint this is marathon.

I don’t think it was any surprise that Mrazek went down again and even if he didn’t, he hasn’t been very good.
I’m always quick to point out the good things Dubas does. If Campbell can carry the load Dubas will get the praise he deserves. Seems premature to give it to him now when even he admitted he needed a goalie.

 

[IPS]

That was a bumpy regular season regardless of if some fans might have claimed we were elite or not, we were not playing like it.

The transition from Babcock to Keefe was a bit rocky but at the same time the Leafs were relying on the likes of Ceci and Barrie to be reliable parts of the defense, so that team wasn't without its weaknesses. Also around the time where Freddy's play as a Leaf started really declining.

 

[The Podium]

No idea and I agree it’s not an easy job. When you hold an elite position you should be held to high expectations

“Dubas is in a big position so he should be a miracle worker” is essentially what you’re saying. High expectations are based on his whole body of work, not his inability to make a near impossible mid season move that may or may not have been an actual improvement.

 

[Zybalto]

I hope one day these obscure and abstract metrics that claim the Leafs are among the very best defensively actually lead to tanglible results and lead to the Leafs actually competing with the teams that are way ahead of them in GA / GP.

From the start of last season to January 14th of this season:

GP: 91
Shots Against/60: 10th fewest in the NHL
xGA: 7th fewest in the NHL
Team save%: 7th in the NHL
Goals Against/GP: 5th fewest in the NHL

A combination of solid top ten defensive and goaltending numbers lead to a great goals against. The Leafs also had top 3 defensive numbers and results last playoffs. Are these the tangible results you are looking for?

Since then (with Mrazek continuing his injury-plagued bad streak, Campbell's first struggles with the team(it coming out Campbell had been playing hurt too) and an AHLer playing a bunch of games):

GP: 41
Shots Against/60: 8th fewest in the NHL
xGA: 3rd fewest in the NHL
Team save%: 30th in the NHL
Goals Against/GP: 24th fewest in the NHL

Defensive numbers remained great but the goaltending really fell off a cliff which is confirmed by the eye test of anyone who watched the games. The goals against is so obviously goaltending related it's hard to argue against it unless you really start pushing act of faith stuff.

With Campbell looking much better after the rib rehab and rest, I'm feeling a bit better going into the playoffs though.

 

[ACC1224]

“Dubas is in a big position so he should be a miracle worker” is essentially what you’re saying. High expectations are based on his whole body of work, not his inability to make a near impossible mid season move that may or may not have been an actual improvement.

I don’t believe adding a competent backup goalie takes a miracle worker but you are certainly welcome to believe it would.

 

[The Podium]

I don’t believe adding a competent backup goalie takes a miracle worker but you are certainly welcome to believe it would.

Would a competent backup be necessary if Mrazek and Campbell are healthy?

If so, do you keep Mrazek buried and riding the bus in the A further destroying his value?

Does this competent backup have term?

At what cap hit? Does it block the Gio/Blackwell trade?

 

[All Mod Cons]

View attachment 532445

I have zero doubt that we were as good/bad as the Columbus Blue Jackets. I'm making a point that a large majority portion of the fanbase has been calling us ultra elite for the past 4 years.

I don't believe we have been.

 

[The Podium]

I have zero doubt that we were as good/bad as the Columbus Blue Jackets. I'm making a point that a large majority portion of the fanbase has been calling us ultra elite for the past 4 years.

I don't believe we have been.

That’s nice.

 

[Dekes For Days]

No but if the Leafs had the same defensive stinginess I don't think they'd be blowing 3-0 leads to Columbus.

1. We're better defensively now than we were when we faced Columbus, especially once Muzzin went down.
2. Any team can blow a 3-0 lead to any team when your goalie is giving up soft wristers from the side wall.
3. Columbus was the best defensive team in the league that year, and gave up a 3-0 lead in a matter of minutes the very next game.

 

[The90]

This seems accurate - the D is so much improved from what it was, very impressive! The goaltending is an issue but man, pretty hard to predict how badly things have turned out in the dept. this year so I can't even be that mad and goalies are voodoo yada yada yada. Maybe another GM would have gotten some other goalie that would have been just as bad but with an anchor of a contract, who knows? And you can say we should have kept Andersen but not sure there was even one person that would have been behind that move in the summer. The big blemish on his record is the playoffs and while I hate to make excuses and hate even more to think about how embarrassing our game 7 performances have been, there are some mitigating circumstances there as well.

In the end, there are definitely reasons for people to be unhappy and things to criticize as well. But I'm still feel like he's done more good than bad, I think you make an excellent point that he will improve and IMHO, he's pretty damn good already. And I gotta say, I'm thrilled with his TDL performance this season, kept our top prospects and picks, that's so much better than what he did last year, maybe he's improved already.

And to the people saying that picks won't help us for a few years, that's just not true. We drafted Knies last year and he could help us TODAY if we were willing to trade him. Assets are assets and they can be converted into immediate help at any time.

I’m glad there are other people here who think with their heads instead of their hearts lol

 

[Mess]

IMO Leaf fans will accept a round 1 loss if they compete and lose like they did against Washington or Boston but not what we saw against Columbus and Montreal.

Boom goes the Dynamite.

Winner winner chicken dinner .

 

[Bigmarycombo]

I am not sure that is how it went down though. The reported trade was bigger and included Knies and AT LEAST one first round pick. It also apparently had Mrazek going out and Hagel coming back. Doing so would have meant we were done cap-wise...no Giordano or Blackwell, even with retention on Fleury.

...this of course if the leaked details are accurate.

So, option A was to give up our top prospect and let's say two first rounders for Fleury and Hagel.

Option B was to keep our picks and prospects and run with Campbell, Mrazek and Kallgren, while adding Giordano and Blackwell. That's a tough call... remember Mrazek appeared to bounce back also before the injury.

Finally, all of this assumes Fleury waives foe Toronto and there are lots of people saying he was never doing that.

I agree that goaltending will be what makes or breaks this team, but Campbell was an All-Star this year, Mrazek had a year unlike any other in his career and Kallgren seems like a shrewd depth pick up. I am not sure this year's goaltending is enough to say fire Dubas, IMO

Of course Chicago wanted a larger deal which we didn’t want but if you look at what they got just for fleury I’m sure something could have worked for our first and another lesser prospect. I don’t know why he wanted our first so much he decided to gamble on the lack of goaltending. Everything has aligned for us this year and good teams make the move to improve the team to the next level. We can’t outscore our goaltending woes in the playoffs especially when the refs are worse than they usually are. Dubas gets an F from me. Goaltending definitely 100 per cent should have been addressed

 

[nuck]

Or better goalie scouts

The clubs luck with goalies has been ridiculous. I have blamed a number of miscues on pro scouting, and specifically Troy Body so was pleased to see him off to the Kraken. Contrary to what some believe Dubas is not a scout and doesn't bird dog either prospects of players he wants to acquire. They have people for that who spend a lot more rink side and video time then the GM could ever spare, so when someone asks how much gas does Simmonds/Jumbo/Foligno have left in the tank? Of course he doesn't go in blind but that is what his staff are for.

Pro scouting and maybe the goalie coach would have a lot of influence but some of it is just shit luck.

 

[Dekes For Days]

if you look at what they got just for fleury I’m sure something could have worked for our first and another lesser prospect.

Not only had Fleury not even been very good this year, and not worth a 1st + a prospect, he also almost certainly would not have allowed a trade to another country when being near his family was so important to him.

 

[hotpaws]

Would a competent backup be necessary if Mrazek and Campbell are healthy?

If so, do you keep Mrazek buried and riding the bus in the A further destroying his value?

Does this competent backup have term?

At what cap hit? Does it block the Gio/Blackwell trade?

Mzarek cleared waivers , how could his value get any lower ?

 

[Leafsfan74]

Failed to address the goaltending issue properly, again.

Leafs will be better off with a new GM this summer.

Wasn't Campbell an all-stsr this season and an early Vezina candidate?

 

[JKG33]

Being the sixth time is immaterial to whether Dubas stays or goes. He’s only been in charge for 2 playoff failures as it currently stands.

Correct, but he's also kept the core parts of the group together thats responsible for the 5 failures. If he refuses to make significant changes after a potential 6th loss he's gotta go

 

[Jojalu]

This is really why Dubas is the GM and all of us have opinions that despite what we think are mostly fueled by emotion.

Fans so far have tried to lynch Engvall, Mik, Nylander, Marner at the starg of the year, Holl every shift, even though Boosh makes far more terrible plays, were ready to sign Campbell to a max deal. Tavares needs to go. Reilly too. Muzzin is past his prime. Kerfoot sucks.

How the hell did this team win 50 games with so many players that need to be fired into the sun?

 

[JKG33]

Would a competent backup be necessary if Mrazek and Campbell are healthy?

If so, do you keep Mrazek buried and riding the bus in the A further destroying his value?

Does this competent backup have term?

At what cap hit? Does it block the Gio/Blackwell trade?

Yes. Even when healthy Mrazek was terrible here.

I wouldn't have signed him in the first place. It's last off season, you've got Campbell (who I love) thats still got a very limited NHL track record. You bring in someone reliable and stable to partner with him. Nothing about Mrazek or anything he's done in his career has been stable or reliable.

 

[JKG33]

This is really why Dubas is the GM and all of us have opinions that despite what we think are mostly fueled by emotion.

Fans so far have tried to lynch Engvall, Mik, Nylander, Marner at the starg of the year, Holl every shift, even though Boosh makes far more terrible plays, were ready to sign Campbell to a max deal. Tavares needs to go. Reilly too. Muzzin is past his prime. Kerfoot sucks.

How the hell did this team win 50 games with so many players that need to be fired into the sun?

Who cares how many they win in the regular season if it just leads to playoff failure? Those teams get rightfully made fun of.