Kyle Dubas discussion II

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people losing their minds over goaltending when kallgren is a damn good backup that dubas got when in a pinch
I don’t think anyone is ‘losing their minds’, more identifying a potential weakness that could derail the team come playoff time.
I’m sure most find it funnier that some are ‘losing their minds’ trying to defend absolutely everything the GM does. I’m sure even Dubas would admit he’s not perfect.
 
He’s made a bunch of mistakes but understandable when you’re learning on the job.
He’s certainly been better lately, not bringing in a goaltender at the deadline could become his biggest mistake of all.
We know he tried, trying isn’t good enough.

People confuse adapting with learning on the job. Even hall of fame GMs made a lot of mistakes while they were managing. It's not something you can control in a high risk environment. It's great having a GM recognize and adapt their abilities in order to improve the team they are managing. None of those archaic dinosaur baloney set in stone ways of doing things.
 
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I don’t think anyone is ‘losing their minds’, more identifying a potential weakness that could derail the team come playoff time.
I’m sure most find it funnier that some are ‘losing their minds’ trying to defend absolutely everything the GM does. I’m sure even Dubas would admit he’s not perfect.

no, it's an outright losing their minds.

i don't venture into these threads usually because the entire reason the thread chain exists is for a bunch of man children to cry into each others shoulders while proclaiming dubas is a nerdy math wizard who doesn't understand the minutae of the game while they constantly reminisce on their nostalgia for when the team was at it's most mediocre.
 
people losing their minds over goaltending when kallgren is a damn good backup that dubas got when in a pinch

Kallgren is not a damn good back up let alone a good back up. Besides his first 2 games he hasn’t looked great.

There was no other goalie available that would be an upgrade or work cap wise at the deadline so I understand him sticking with Campbell.
 
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I’m sure most find it funnier that some are ‘losing their minds’ trying to defend absolutely everything the GM does. I’m sure even Dubas would admit he’s not perfect.
Nobody has said that Dubas is perfect, and nobody has "defended absolutely everything the GM does". Most are just pointing out how ridiculous it is to "lose their minds" over Dubas not overpaying for a limited selection of goaltenders that aren't any meaningful upgrade on what we already have.
 
Great post, that is always the big IF. Could be better, might be better, but would it be better?

I think Dubas has raised the odds to pretty big, because I think outside of goaltending we have addressed all of our weaknesses. Defense was something that all the other GMs have failed. He fixed it completely. Without ruining our offense.

I trust he'll get that last part done eventually. Like our team I think young guy like Dubas will improve with more experience.
Goaltending is THE big issue, no doubt about it. I don't know about being better off with a new GM though, I guess that would depend on who the new GM is. Is there anyone specific you think we should go after or are you in the "anyone would be better than Dubas" camp?
Ever since getting walked on contracts his first year, he has clearly made more good moves than bad. A lot of people are still bitter about that, and the questionable decision to add Tavares but that's now ancient history and not relevant to how he makes his moves today. Its has a cap affect of course but he isn't adding more big $ firepower to further his vision. It did not seem like he thought a club needed more than just scoring when he started out but that has evolved to a more balanced team. I would call it more trial and error than that he had a plan and solved the balance needs over time. More like he admitted what the needs were and then moved to solve them to the extent that he could, He has vastly improved as a GM.

But the elephant in the room will always be the cap because he inherited a team with cap space and then signed an $11M player because a 30g guy as #2C didn't fit his plan. Yes Marleau was signed for too long but that money was already spent and trading a 1st to unload him wasn't necessary until Tavares was added, thats Kyle, not Lou. The burden going forward is the JT contract, not the Marleau one. The strategy was to spend half the cap on 4 forwards and just overwhelm the opposition with their skill while cheap pieces were used for most of the other positions. It hasn't worked yet and he will be running this same game plan into the playoffs for the 4th straight year. Every move he makes is steered by that $40M spend.

If he fails and gets canned it likely will be because he never wavered from his rookie GM cap use strategy. Adding players that make the club better and then not winning before those adds are in decline is a fail. Spezza on the last lap, Gio is turning 39. Simmonds was done when they got him, Muzz may be close to the end, and JT has given them 1 stellar year and three $8M ones. They needed to put the adds in place together and for a couple of years, otherwise you are just keeping your head above water, and adding new value in as old value ages out. When guys like Mikheyev and Spezza are gone we will look back on their high value years and wish the rest of the club was ready when they were.

Having said all the above, every season is a new roll of the dice and we all know the Washington and St Louis Cup wins were not predicted nor were the pundits touting their roster building as enlightened. We don't know what the club would have done last season but for the Chariot knee, and if last seasons Campbell wakes up for the playoffs a top 5 team has to have a real chance. If they win or make a deep run that is a vindication of the Dubas roadmap. Now if they fail miserably because management didn't make a goalie move, or they just get outplayed by enough to lose in round 1 again I am not sure that would indicate the present regime has earned another chance.
 
Ever since getting walked on contracts his first year, he has clearly made more good moves than bad. A lot of people are still bitter about that, and the questionable decision to add Tavares but that's now ancient history and not relevant to how he makes his moves today. Its has a cap affect of course but he isn't adding more big $ firepower to further his vision. It did not seem like he thought a club needed more than just scoring when he started out but that has evolved to a more balanced team. I would call it more trial and error than that he had a plan and solved the balance needs over time. More like he admitted what the needs were and then moved to solve them to the extent that he could, He has vastly improved as a GM.

But the elephant in the room will always be the cap because he inherited a team with cap space and then signed an $11M player because a 30g guy as #2C didn't fit his plan. Yes Marleau was signed for too long but that money was already spent and trading a 1st to unload him wasn't necessary until Tavares was added, thats Kyle, not Lou. The burden going forward is the JT contract, not the Marleau one. The strategy was to spend half the cap on 4 forwards and just overwhelm the opposition with their skill while cheap pieces were used for most of the other positions. It hasn't worked yet and he will be running this same game plan into the playoffs for the 4th straight year. Every move he makes is steered by that $40M spend.

If he fails and gets canned it likely will be because he never wavered from his rookie GM cap use strategy. Adding players that make the club better and then not winning before those adds are in decline is a fail. Spezza on the last lap, Gio is turning 39. Simmonds was done when they got him, Muzz may be close to the end, and JT has given them 1 stellar year and three $8M ones. They needed to put the adds in place together and for a couple of years, otherwise you are just keeping your head above water, and adding new value in as old value ages out. When guys like Mikheyev and Spezza are gone we will look back on their high value years and wish the rest of the club was ready when they were.

Having said all the above, every season is a new roll of the dice and we all know the Washington and St Louis Cup wins were not predicted nor were the pundits touting their roster building as enlightened. We don't know what the club would have done last season but for the Chariot knee, and if last seasons Campbell wakes up for the playoffs a top 5 team has to have a real chance. If they win or make a deep run that is a vindication of the Dubas roadmap. Now if they fail miserably because management didn't make a goalie move, or they just get outplayed by enough to lose in round 1 again I am not sure that would indicate the present regime has earned another chance.

Lets go Jack!

I love it when people complain about a PPG #1C who is a good two-way player and one of the best face off guys in the league.

If that’s our biggest burden of a contract, we are in good shape.
 
Kallgren is not a damn good back up let alone a good back up. Besides his first 2 games he hasn’t looked great.

There was no other goalie available that would be an upgrade or work cap wise at the deadline so I understand him sticking with Campbell.

he gives the team a chance to win like 85-90% of the times he is dressed. that's better than average when it comes to backups as far as I'm concerned.

he's been playing against some tough teams too.
 
They had an embarrassing loss against Boston? I’d even argue the Columbus loss wasn’t embarrassing.

No, losing to an equal/better team is not embarrassing. Obviously we can’t make excuses forever and they need some playoff success, but the term “embarrassing” is being used way to liberal when discussing the Leafs playoff woes.
IMHO it depends on how you lose.

In 2018 we played Boston dead even through 6 games, then took a 4-3 lead into the 3rd period of game 7. We lost that game 7-4 in the end, seems at least a little bit embarrassing to me.

In 2019 we again played them dead even through 6 games (and were even ahead 3-2 after 5 games), which set the stage for another game 7. We're a year older, more experienced, we added JT to the roster so we're so much better prepared and have every reason to expect better this time, right? We may lose, no shame in that but we are going to play our hearts our and no way are we going down easy, right?

Wrong. We played our worst game of the playoffs in getting dominated 5-1.

Our deciding game performances against CLB and MTL weren't much better, if at all and if those weren't our worst playoff games of the year, they were near the top of the list.

I think we need to do better and if we lose because of another dismal game 7 performance, it would be ... embarrassing.
 
he gives the team a chance to win like 85-90% of the times he is dressed. that's better than average when it comes to backups as far as I'm concerned.

he's been playing against some tough teams too.

7 of his 11 starts have been against non playoff teams. In 7 of the 11 games they have had to score 4 or more to win. He’s been barley an upgrade on Mrazek.

I’m not trying to be hard on the guy because he’s the 4th string goalie but I don’t think he’s been good.
 
Also love how signing one UFA superstar and then running into a pandemic flat cap for a half-decade equates to "It was his plan all along to spend half the cap on 4 forwards!"

You’re right it wasn’t and it could have been an easy excuse to trade one. Time will tell if trading one or not was the right move.

He’s committed to the core 4 and I would like to see them reward him with some playoff success this year. If they are going to lose in the first round don’t no show please
 
I love it when people complain about a PPG #1C who is a good two-way player and one of the best face off guys in the league.

If that’s our biggest burden of a contract, we are in good shape.
Tavares is a fine player but they could have Pietrangelo and Kadri instead of JT and Holl. If you want to reduce it to JT is good so whether they needed or could afford him is irrelevant then we are arguing 2 different points. He is really good. His effect on the cap, and basically all of Kyles options since the signing are not really good. Both these things can be true.
 
Before his disastreous season here, Mrazek had a respectable .913% over the last 10 or so years in the NHL. He's never had a sub .900 season in the NHL in a full season. This is by far his worst season ever and a lot of it is because he was injured most of the season. But sure, blame the manager for not being able to foresee someone getting injured like that...
Mrazek had a history of prior injuries, it was a risky pickup at the time and it (somewhat predictably) backfired. That’s 100% on Dubas.
 
You’re right it wasn’t and it could have been an easy excuse to trade one.
Ah yes, the wonderful option he had available to him when the pandemic flat cap hit - to either trade one of our early 20s future HOFers, the captain with the NMC that we had just convinced to sign here, or the cheapest guy who was also in his early-mid 20s, improving, and already outperforming his contract by a decent amount.

Instead, he just improved every part of our team while keeping them.
Time will tell if trading one or not was the right move.
Even if we don't win while not trading them, that doesn't equate to trading them being the correct move.
 
I don’t understand his deadline thoughts

Campbell was struggling really bad

Mrazek was garbage and injured

We were running a fourth string goalie

We were having our best offensive year ever. Everyone having career ofensive production

We 100 per cent needed a goalie no question

Didn’t want to give up a first to get fluerey. Why not. The first is going to be anywhere from 26-32. The player we pick there in a poor draft may never make it to the show and even if he does it’s 3/4 years away.

Of all years this is the one to get a goalie and he didn’t.
We got Sateri. Job done.
 
They had an embarrassing loss against Boston? I’d even argue the Columbus loss wasn’t embarrassing.

No, losing to an equal/better team is not embarrassing. Obviously we can’t make excuses forever and they need some playoff success, but the term “embarrassing” is being used way to liberal when discussing the Leafs playoff woes.
90% of the fanbase talked all year about how elite we were. Elite D, Elite G and Elite F.

Now we're saying we were as Elite as the Columbus f***ing Blue Jackets?
 
Mrazek had a history of prior injuries, it was a risky pickup at the time and it (somewhat predictably) backfired. That’s 100% on Dubas.

Not anymore than most goaltenders in the league. Most goaltenders have a history of injuries. Andersen and Mrazek share similar injury histories for one. His current groin issue did start when he was with the Hurricanes in the pandemic bubble season though.

Should Waddell of the Hurricanes get fired for not foreseeing Andersen getting injured as well?


Blaming a GM for a player getting injured is really stretching the list to blame Dubas for.
 
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