Kyle Dubas discussion II

[zeke]

Not what I said at all. Spin boy, spin.

It's what you posted. Backtrack away.

 

[ACC1224]

That actually doesn't have to be true at all

You can root for a team and not root management. I love Canada but I don't like Treadeau at all

Every investment and time is measured against opportunity cost. Kyle Dubas has taken what should have been a super competitive team, turned them into a choke artist

His data driven decision has cost this team significant opportunity to progress. We should have been the team in the finals last year. I guess we are just going ot accept that and let the by gones by be by gones

His trades?
Foligno for 1st
Kadri who would have gotten 100 points this year if not for injury and suspension for who exactly?

We have no addressed out goalie situation. Team top 9 still super soft

Remember Ceaser?

It's not that I dont' love Ceasers, I love Rome more..... It is because some of us Love the Leafs hate what we have in our management

For all that he was given, he hasn't gotten past 1 single round of playoff hockey...........1

But glory to him to our supreme leader because if I dont' like him, clearlyI don't love the Leafs

Good post.

In bizzaro world you cheer for the executives. The rest of us in the real world just cheer for the team and don’t really care who’s in charge as long as the team is successful.

 

[All Mod Cons]

does anyone really know what's going on in this thread anymore. I'm so lost.

Basically we're trying to get from Moncton to Vancouver via train, but we keep breaking down just outside of Winnipeg.

The 1st group just wants to get there. Not hugely bothered about how. But every train they get, they see the same issues with the train, like the previous ones, as they travel across Ontario.

The 2nd group enjoy the journey. They're not massively bothered if they get to Vancouver or not. They enjoy the food, sights and sleeping arrangements. Every time the train enters Ontario, they are telling all the other passengers that this train is much better than the previous ones they've been on.

The 1st group asks why they are so confident when the same issues keep appearing with the train.

The 2nd group responds that it's had a new coat of paint and a new set of dice dangling from the rear view mirror.

When the 1st group asks about the engines, brakes and suspension, the second group responds with expected arrival times in all different form of charts, tables and graphs.

When the train breaks down, the 1st group suggests maybe a different driver or operator would be a good idea to build off what has already been built.

The 2nd group explains there are no other train drivers in the world that could possible get their heads around a train.

That's about it.

 

[Leaftors]

That actually doesn't have to be true at all

You can root for a team and not root management. I love Canada but I don't like Treadeau at all

Every investment and time is measured against opportunity cost. Kyle Dubas has taken what should have been a super competitive team, turned them into a choke artist

His data driven decision has cost this team significant opportunity to progress. We should have been the team in the finals last year. I guess we are just going ot accept that and let the by gones by be by gones

His trades?
Foligno for 1st
Kadri who would have gotten 100 points this year if not for injury and suspension for who exactly?

We have no addressed out goalie situation. Team top 9 still super soft

Remember Ceaser?

It's not that I dont' love Ceasers, I love Rome more..... It is because some of us Love the Leafs hate what we have in our management

For all that he was given, he hasn't gotten past 1 single round of playoff hockey...........1

But glory to him to our supreme leader because if I dont' like him, clearlyI don't love the Leafs

To play devils advocate you are leaving out some pretty big signings/trades that have panned out to be extremely beneficial for us. I don't think we're "super" soft anymore either. They have been playing a more physical style for a couple of months now.

I don't really care if you like him or don't, but he's been pretty good at putting a successful product out there.

 

[zeke]

It's amazing.

These people will simply ignore that this is the best Leafs team they've ever seen, and just forget that they were hilariously wrong about how good they would be, all because they have a personal hatred for the GM.

I kinda feel bad for them tbh.

 

[ACC1224]

Basically we're trying to get from Moncton to Vancouver via train, but we keep breaking down just outside of Winnipeg.

The 1st group just wants to get there. Not hugely bothered about how. But every train they get, they see the same issues with the train, like the previous ones, as they travel across Ontario.

The 2nd group enjoy the journey. They're not massively bothered if they get to Vancouver or not. They enjoy the food, sights and sleeping arrangements. Every time the train enters Ontario, they are telling all the other passengers that this train is much better than the previous ones they've been on.

The 1st group asks why they are so confident when the same issues keep appearing with the train.

The 2nd group responds that it's had a new coat of paint and a new set of dice dangling from the rear view mirror.

When the 1st group asks about the engines, brakes and suspension, the first group responds with expected arrival times in all different form of charts, tables and graphs.

When the train breaks down, the 1st group suggests maybe a different driver or operator would be a good idea to build off what has already been built.

The 2nd group explains there are no other train drivers in the world that could possible get their heads around a train.

That's about it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

"justified" What you're not understanding is it was the LEAFS who decided this. It wasn't whether he was healthy or not as the guide here. It was an organizational decision regarding how they wanted to use/manipulate the cap.

Listen to the Friedman clip for greater context around this kind of thing. This is all simple stuff that teams do to circumvent the system.

@Gary Nylund I addressed that you didn't address that while commenting on post 994. Circles.

Like I said, you're just speculating, blowing smoke without any evidence whatsoever. And then you're getting "frustrated" because not everyone is willing to accept your "theories" as fact.

 

[fahad203]

To play devils advocate you are leaving out some pretty big signings/trades that have panned out to be extremely beneficial for us. I don't think we're "super" soft anymore either. They have been playing a more physical style for a couple of months now.

I don't really care if you like him or don't, but he's been pretty good at putting a successful product out there.

Success is a very relative term around it seems. They are tougher, but not tough enough. They are good, but they haven't good enough

There are 8 teams this year that will have 100 points. Everyoen had a banner year. Those trades and signings beneficial if we win a round. Until then he gets no benefit of the doubt

 

[ACC1224]

To play devils advocate you are leaving out some pretty big signings/trades that have panned out to be extremely beneficial for us. I don't think we're "super" soft anymore either. They have been playing a more physical style for a couple of months now.

I don't really care if you like him or don't, but he's been pretty good at putting a successful product out there.

That he has I don’t think anyone would deny that. Pointing out the good and the bad is just being an honest fan of the team.

 

[fahad203]

Good post.

In bizzaro world you cheer for the executives. The rest of us in the real world just cheer for the team and don’t really care who’s in charge as long as the team is successful.

It's not his or anyone's fault. Not everyone got through Ballard years. I don't know a single person who loved the leafs and didn't hate Ballard equally. There's no way I am comparing Dubas to Ballard, not in million years.

Dubas is a great guy... great potential. But my point is, you can love this team and hate the management equally

 

[ACC1224]

It's not his or anyone's fault. Not everyone got through Ballard years. I don't know a single person who loved the leafs and didn't hate Ballard equally. There's no way I am comparing Dubas to Ballard, not in million years.

Dubas is a great guy... great potential. But my point is, you can love this team and hate the management equally

I have no idea if he’s a great guy or not and it really makes no difference to me. I suppose there could be some that hate him but that’s just as bizarre as those that love him.

 

[Apex Predator]

Basically we're trying to get from Moncton to Vancouver via train, but we keep breaking down just outside of Winnipeg.

The 1st group just wants to get there. Not hugely bothered about how. But every train they get, they see the same issues with the train, like the previous ones, as they travel across Ontario.

The 2nd group enjoy the journey. They're not massively bothered if they get to Vancouver or not. They enjoy the food, sights and sleeping arrangements. Every time the train enters Ontario, they are telling all the other passengers that this train is much better than the previous ones they've been on.

The 1st group asks why they are so confident when the same issues keep appearing with the train.

The 2nd group responds that it's had a new coat of paint and a new set of dice dangling from the rear view mirror.

When the 1st group asks about the engines, brakes and suspension, the first group responds with expected arrival times in all different form of charts, tables and graphs.

When the train breaks down, the 1st group suggests maybe a different driver or operator would be a good idea to build off what has already been built.

The 2nd group explains there are no other train drivers in the world that could possible get their heads around a train.

That's about it.

Close thread this person nailed it!!

 

[Teeder Keon]

The Leafs are better than they have ever been.

Anyone who roots for the team would obviously be rooting for this GM, but bizarrely so many fans let their personal hate for a GM make them root against the best Leafs team they have ever seen


It's truly messed up.

lol

GLASSES!!!!!

 

[JKG33]

The only good thing that'll happen when the Leafs go out in the first round in 5 is that Dubas will be fired and the Dubas Defense League will have to actually root for the team rather than the GM.

Weirdest thing I've even seen.

We could be so lucky. But the red carpet of excuses will be rolled out when they lose to the 2x defending champs, and we'll be stuck with one or two more first round exits from the Dubas squad yet

 

[Racer88]

That actually doesn't have to be true at all

You can root for a team and not root management. I love Canada but I don't like Treadeau at all

Every investment and time is measured against opportunity cost. Kyle Dubas has taken what should have been a super competitive team, turned them into a choke artist

His data driven decision has cost this team significant opportunity to progress. We should have been the team in the finals last year. I guess we are just going ot accept that and let the by gones by be by gones

His trades?
Foligno for 1st
Kadri who would have gotten 100 points this year if not for injury and suspension for who exactly?

We have no addressed out goalie situation. Team top 9 still super soft

Remember Ceaser?

It's not that I dont' love Ceasers, I love Rome more..... It is because some of us Love the Leafs hate what we have in our management

For all that he was given, he hasn't gotten past 1 single round of playoff hockey...........1

But glory to him to our supreme leader because if I dont' like him, clearlyI don't love the Leafs

This is one of the best posts I have read in a while

 

[ToneDog]

We could be so lucky. But the red carpet of excuses will be rolled out when they lose to the 2x defending champs, and we'll be stuck with one or two more first round exits from the Dubas squad yet

Shanny and Kyle will run it back as long as it takes. Unfortunately it is looking like the good ship Dubas is about to meet it's biggest iceberg. For the sake of Leaf nation, his captain Keefe better not sail into it.

 

[TheRumble]

I just wanna point out that we have a literal vegetable in this thread speculating that the Leafs are faking Kase concussion in order to put him on LTIR for cap relief.

This thread has gone beyond derailment and now entered the realm of 9/11 conspiracy theories.

 

[JKG33]

It's amazing.

These people will simply ignore that this is the best Leafs team they've ever seen, and just forget that they were hilariously wrong about how good they would be, all because they have a personal hatred for the GM.

I kinda feel bad for them tbh.

What about the best Leafs team ever last year? How'd that one do in the playoffs?

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think many Dubas haters are questioning the regular season. It's the playoffs we're concerned about. And also concerned for the mental health of those who fall for the "best team ever!!1" shtick every year.

 

[Gallagbi]

"justified" What you're not understanding is it was the LEAFS who decided this. It wasn't whether he was healthy or not as the guide here. It was an organizational decision regarding how they wanted to use/manipulate the cap.

Couple of things

Healthy/injured is a scale, not a status. It's why a player can play a playoff series then immediately get surgery. It's why we can have an ache but still go about our daily routine, even if it's not at 100%. More rest would be justifiable given Muzzins concussion history

As for manipulation, what was the determination? Was it not that Muzzin projected to return post TDL and did, so they didn't spend that potential cap?

Listen to the Friedman clip for greater context around this kind of thing. This is all simple stuff that teams do to circumvent the system.

The clip from pre covid?

To clarify, I believe cap circumvention happens and Vegas is a prime example. Kuch would be another. Robidas island is another. Not sure we've seen it much with Dubas though or in the situations you've noted which are Kase (capable of returning now from a cap perspective) or Muzzin who did return post TDL

 

[authentic]

Leafs are 13-3-2 since the deadline.

And who is Bunkis?

Bunkis knows best, I promise

 

[riffle]

Couple of things

Healthy/injured is a scale, not a status. It's why a player can play a playoff series then immediately get surgery. It's why we can have an ache but still go about our daily routine, even if it's not at 100%. More rest would be justifiable given Muzzins concussion history

As for manipulation, what was the determination? Was it not that Muzzin projected to return post TDL and did, so they didn't spend that potential cap?


The clip from pre covid?

To clarify, I believe cap circumvention happens and Vegas is a prime example. Kuch would be another. Robidas island is another. Not sure we've seen it much with Dubas though or in the situations you've noted which are Kase (capable of returning now from a cap perspective) or Muzzin who did return post TDL

The situation with Muzzin was what do we want more?

A) Muzzin available to us after the TDL

or

B) Muzzin not available to us and his money to spend more at the deadline which would make it even harder to bring him back once his money went elsewhere. (Many ramifications of the decision that are never pondered by many here who believe this is all about health, and it just working out)

The Leafs chose based on organization preference, not injury status, that trotting out Jake was the better play for them. The issue is THEY CONSIDERED THE ALTERNATIVE. That shows it was an "either, or" proposition. It had NOTHING to do with him actually being injured. The "scale" was used to manipulate the Leafs situation into the desired direction of the GM. Muzzin's health did not dictate the decision. Kyle did.

 

[BertCorbeau]

What about the best Leafs team ever last year? How'd that one do in the playoffs?

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think many Dubas haters are questioning the regular season. It's the playoffs we're concerned about. And also concerned for the mental health of those who fall for the "best team ever!!1" shtick every year.

Shtick? The Leafs have set a franchise record for regular season wins and points. Maybe it's more a choice of wording but it's not entirely wrong to say this year's Leafs' is the best.

 

[JKG33]

Shtick? The Leafs have set a franchise record for regular season wins and points. Maybe it's more a choice of wording but it's not entirely wrong to say this year's Leafs' is the best.

Sure, and last year was the best. And the year before that. Yet those teams did shit all in the playoffs each time, so surely you can understand my skeptism at yet another best Leafs team ever

 

[IPS]

He literally just said that them losing in the playoffs was the best thing because dubas would be fired.

How did you miss that?

No he didn't. He's saying the upside to losing in the 1st round again is the team getting new management.

 

[Leaf Fans]

The only good thing that'll happen when the Leafs go out in the first round in 5 is that Dubas will be fired and the Dubas Defense League will have to actually root for the team rather than the GM.

Weirdest thing I've even seen.

Most people root for the team. Though there are those people the root against the GM instead of for the team. Also, there is no such thing as the Dubas Defense League.