Kyle Dubas discussion II

[notbias]

William Nylander was cited to me in a discussion about toughness. I responded to that argument with his standing in hits/60, where he ranks 944th. I was more than aware of what company that put him in. However, the argument is about softness. The question won't be answered because it is hard to bring yourself to a place to admit that if you're trying to fight against it. Just admit it. Type the words...William Nylander is a soft player and the Leafs are a soft team. Why is this hard?

Kyle Clifford and Wayne Simmonds are not soft players. Neither are good at hockey, but they can fight and will stick up for themselves and teammates. And, again, we were hoping we wouldn't need to see these guys play. Both are washed. Sadly, we're so soft we NEED these two fist pumpers to be in the lineup or we're going to get bullied in May. Where do I have it wrong?

You talk a lot but you don't say a lot.

You are using hits as a measure of toughness, we were tougher than Tampa last night and they have some of the most hits in the league.

Can you name one scenario where Tampa was tougher than us last night? I can't think of one, you can single out individuals sure, but I am pretty sure the scrum with Nylander floating around also had Gio putting Cirelli down.

Some good examples of Tampa's toughness last night were Maroon getting punched and not throwing a single punch back, no one sticking up for Bunting elbowing Cirelli in the mouth, Perry running to the refs to tell on Clifford instead of fighting him, and Simmonds being allowed to throw a hit that got him fined.

Tampa seems like a bunch of pretenders, but I bet you think they are tough, they were last year, but their actual toughest line is no longer with them, all 3 left.

 

[Dreakmur]

A hit is good, but having a lot of them probably means you don't have the puck very much.

 

[TheRumble]

We should also trade Marner for Max Domi, Josh Anderson and Josh Manson.

The loss of 100 points worth of production will be made up for in toughness.

 

[riffle]

You talk a lot but you don't say a lot.

You are using hits as a measure of toughness, we were tougher than Tampa last night and they have some of the most hits in the league.

Can you name one scenario where Tampa was tougher than us last night? I can't think of one, you can single out individuals sure, but I am pretty sure the scrum with Nylander floating around also had Gio putting Cirelli down.

Some good examples of Tampa's toughness last night were Maroon getting punched and not throwing a single punch back, no one sticking up for Bunting elbowing Cirelli in the mouth, Perry running to the refs to tell on Clifford instead of fighting him, and Simmonds being allowed to throw a hit that got him fined.

Tampa seems like a bunch of pretenders, but I bet you think they are tough, they were last year, but their actual toughest line is no longer with them, all 3 left.

Watch the beginning of the game, again.

Tampa is Top 5 (4th) in hits. So are the Bruins (3rd) and Florida is 10th. We'll see how much that matters when May comes. We'll get to see what Florida and Washington have for us this weekend. Caps 7th in hits and Panthers 10th. Those games should be more like playoff hockey than any others this season. Rather be top 10 than 24th in that category but I know you don't think it matters whatsoever.

Simmonds did destroy Maroon. That was fun.

Boosh and Simmer accounted for 8 of our hits (30%) and Leafs still got outhit by nearly 25%. Boosh may not even be in our lineup if Muzzin returns, and I would prefer we didn't have to play a washed player because our guys can't stand up for themselves.

 

[riffle]

A hit is good, but having a lot of them probably means you don't have the puck very much.

Tampa is 4th in hits. Do you think they don't have the puck much? How about the Rangers at 5th? Florida at 10th?

 

[notbias]

Watch the beginning of the game, again.

Tampa is Top 5 (4th) in hits. So are the Bruins (3rd) and Florida is 10th. We'll see how much that matters when May comes. We'll get to see what Florida and Washington have for us this weekend. Caps 7th in hits and Panthers 10th. Those games should be more like playoff hockey than any others this season. Rather be top 10 than 24th in that category but I know you don't think it matters whatsoever.

Simmonds did destroy Maroon. That was fun.

Boosh and Simmer accounted for 8 of our hits (30%) and Leafs still got outhit by nearly 25%. Boosh may not even be in our lineup if Muzzin returns, and I would prefer we didn't have to play a washed player because our guys can't stand up for themselves.

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Why don't you just say hits instead of toughness or softness?

You keep referencing hits like it means toughness.

Go look at Minnesota's lineup or Calgary's... and they are both around 20th in hits.

 

[riffle]

Why don't you just say hits instead of toughness or softness?

You keep referencing hits like it means toughness.

Go look at Minnesota's lineup or Calgary's... and they are both around 20th in hits.

Have I said Minnesota and Calgary are tough?


Would you rather be Top 10 in hits or bottom 10?

The way it's being preached to me you should be 32nd in hits because that means you have the puck all the time. This is part of the Dubas fanaticism speaking. I like Kyle, but he has really rewired minds when it comes to hockey and his teams have done nothing but lose when it matters given he has the best goal scorer in the game and 3 near 11 million dollar players which nobody else comes close to.

 

[notbias]

Have I said Minnesota and Calgary are tough?

They are clearly two of the toughest teams in the league

What's your opinion on them?

 

[Suntouchable13]

Nobody wants to talk about Dubas' team has allowed the most goals out of all Eastern playoff teams. Just can not fix the Leafs defensive/goalie issues. That's squarely on the GM.

 

[IPS]

Nobody wants to talk about Dubas' team has allowed the most goals out of all Eastern playoff teams. Just can not fix the Leafs defensive/goalie issues. That's squarely on the GM.

And a lot of folks love to shit on Florida for their wonky defensive play yet they haven't exactly received stellar goaltending either.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Have I said Minnesota and Calgary are tough?


Would you rather be Top 10 in hits or bottom 10?

The way it's being preached to me you should be 32nd in hits because that means you have the puck all the time. This is part of the Dubas fanaticism speaking. I like Kyle, but he has really rewired minds when it comes to hockey and his teams have done nothing but lose when it matters given he has the best goal scorer in the game and 3 near 11 million dollar players which nobody else comes close to.

I don’t really care if my team is 1st or 32nd in a meaningless stat, I’m more concerned about how guys stick up for each other and themselves and how they succeed at toughness stats that equate to winning like puck battles won, where our much maligned captain currently ranks 1st in the NHL at by a decent margin.

 

[Nylanderthal]

And a lot of folks love to shit on Florida for their wonky defensive play yet they haven't exactly received stellar goaltending either.

Aside from Tampa and maybe the rangers (although Shesty hasn’t proven it in the post season) who in the east has goaltending you would put a mortgage payment on being dependable

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Dubas has done an alright job but simply heading into the playoffs with our current goaltending situation is a massive fail on his part.

Knowing how soft Campbell and Mrazek are, we’re dangerously close to relying on a third string goalie to beat a dynasty team. Just inexcusable.

Screw Hagel being in the deal. You mean to tell me we couldn’t throw a better conditional first at Chicago to get Fleury. Really stupid on his part.

And yeah I know people love to bring up the fact that a first was too much for MAF but actually read the conditions of that pick. I’m sure we’d all be happy to give up a first in that situation.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Dubas has done an alright job but simply heading into the playoffs with our current goaltending situation is a massive fail on his part.

Knowing how soft Campbell and Mrazek are, we’re dangerously close to relying on a third string goalie to beat a dynasty team. Just inexcusable.

Screw Hagel being in the deal. You mean to tell me we couldn’t throw a better conditional first at Chicago to get Fleury. Really stupid on his part.

And yeah I know people love to bring up the fact that a first was too much for MAF but actually read the conditions of that pick. I’m sure we’d all be happy to give up a first in that situation.

Yeah, let’s give up a first plus for a 37 year old who was ran outta his last two teams for playoff choke jobs and undermining the management during the post season so he can ride the bench.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Yeah, let’s give up a first plus for a 37 year old who was ran outta his last two teams for playoff choke jobs and undermining the management during the post season so he can ride the bench.

Again, did you read the condition on the first Minny gave up?

Let me answer for you because you seem confused, you haven’t.

Let me phrase my post also in Nylanderthal speak so it might make more sense for you:

“Yeah, let’s give up a conditional first for a 37 yo goalie who was the Vezina winner last year and has a ton of playoff experience, can actually stay healthy, and knows what winning is like.”

 

[IPS]

Aside from Tampa and maybe the rangers (although Shesty hasn’t proven it in the post season) who in the east has goaltending you would put a mortgage payment on being dependable

Yeah not many. But hence the poster before me who referenced us allowing more goals than any playoff team in the East. But there's posters on here who are deadset we somehow have a top-5 D in the league.

 

[riffle]

They are clearly two of the toughest teams in the league

What's your opinion on them?

No opinion of Calgary. Don't watch them much. Have seen some Wild games. Greenway, Foligno, Deslauriers are some tough guys but from what I've seen, I wouldn't classify them as a team to be feared in that category.

Calgary is Top 10 in height and weight ...Wild are not in either.

BTW, Tampa is Top 5 in both. Tops in weight.

Leafs are 12th in height and 22nd in weight.

Islanders were high on those lists and why many say they're built for playoff hockey. Leafs are clearly not built for playoff hockey. Bottom 10 in hits. Near the bottom in weight. This is about Toronto. Not sure why you're asking me about Calgary and Minnesota. The only time we'll see them is in the Cup.

EDIT: BTW @notbias if you're the GM are you building your team to compete with Calgary and Minnesota, or are you focused on assembling one that can beat Boston, Tampa, and Florida?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Again, did you read the condition on the first Minny gave up?

Let me answer for you because you seem confused, you haven’t.

I’m not confused I just don’t see how flower who is riding pine in favour of cam Talbot helps this team.
No mention of the fact he’s a locker room issue in the post season utilizing his handlers to undermine the team? He’s got a million watt smile but I have no interest and it’s pretty evident that he had no interest in coming to Canada

 

[IPS]

No opinion of Calgary. Don't watch them much. Have seen some Wild games. Greenway, Foligno, Deslauriers are some tough guys but from what I've seen, I wouldn't classify them as a team to be feared in that category.

Calgary is Top 10 in height and weight ...Wild are not in either.

BTW, Tampa is Top 5 in both. Tops in weight.

Leafs are 12th in height and 22nd in weight.

Islanders were high on those lists and why many say they're built for playoff hockey. Leafs are clearly not built for playoff hockey. Bottom 10 in hits. Near the bottom in weight. This is about Toronto. Not sure why you're asking me about Calgary and Minnesota. The only time we'll see them is in the Cup.

Big f***ing whoop dude... Pittsburgh and Chicago were among the smallest teams in the league when they won cups and had were near the bottom in hits.

Try contributing something useful.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I’m not confused I just don’t see how flower who is riding pine in favour of cam Talbot helps this team.
No mention of the fact he’s a locker room issue in the post season utilizing his handlers to undermine the team? He’s got a million watt smile but I have no interest and it’s pretty evident that he had no interest in coming to Canada

Do we have a Cam Talbot on this team? No, we have cripple Mrazek and Campbell who hasn’t won anything and who is himself injury prone. All the other nonsense you wrote is just a smear job. The last portion of your post, you have literally no clue. Why did Dubas even try to trade for him if there was no chance. I’m sure you’re going to bring up Friedman or something as if they knew everything.

 

[riffle]

Big f***ing whoop dude... Pittsburgh and Chicago were among the smallest teams in the league when they won cups and had were near the bottom in hits.

Try contributing something useful.

Dubas is great! We are so lucky to have him. Best GM in the league!

How's that?

 

[IPS]

Dubas is great! We are so lucky to have him. Best GM in the league!

How's that?

Well it still does nothing to strengthen all of the useless points you brought up earlier

 

[Gabriel426]

No opinion of Calgary. Don't watch them much. Have seen some Wild games. Greenway, Foligno, Deslauriers are some tough guys but from what I've seen, I wouldn't classify them as a team to be feared in that category.

Calgary is Top 10 in height and weight ...Wild are not in either.

BTW, Tampa is Top 5 in both. Tops in weight.

Leafs are 12th in height and 22nd in weight.

Islanders were high on those lists and why many say they're built for playoff hockey. Leafs are clearly not built for playoff hockey. Bottom 10 in hits. Near the bottom in weight. This is about Toronto. Not sure why you're asking me about Calgary and Minnesota. The only time we'll see them is in the Cup.

Tucker and Domi are two of the toughest Leafs and the last I checked they ain't even 5'10 and weight well below 200pounds.

Antropov and Modin are two of the biggest Leafs I have seen and I won't call both of them strong and heavy weight.

I don't think Leafs past 5 years playoffs failure were because they were not tough or heavy or short, but more to do with performance from their top stars. Both Andersen and Campbell let in their career worst goals in the worst time possible. Our top stars didn't show up the last few years. These were reasons why the team didn't advance and it was not because they were missing a few Tom Wilsons.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Do we have a Cam Talbot on this team? No, we have cripple Mrazek and Campbell who hasn’t won anything and who is himself injury prone. All the other nonsense you wrote is just a smear job. The last portion of your post, you have literally no clue. Why did Dubas even try to trade for him if there was no chance. I’m sure you’re going to bring up Friedman or something as if they knew everything.

Do we have a Cam Talbot on this team? No, we have cripple Mrazek and Campbell who hasn’t won anything and who is himself injury prone. All the other nonsense you wrote is just a smear job. The last portion of your post, you have literally no clue. Why did Dubas even try to trade for him if there was no chance. I’m sure you’re going to bring up Friedman or something as if they knew everything.

No we have jack Campbell who when healthy and on his game is better than cam talbot today. And smear job? So he didn’t lose his job twice to a rookie Matt Murray and then given away with a sweetener in the expansion draft to ensure his selection? Then ran out of Vegas in favour of Band-aid mental case Panda?
I guess I’m imagining Allan Walsh posting photos of flower with the Vegas spear photo shopped through him? If that was truly an issue with MAF he’d of said something and maybe even changed representation. He’s washed.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

No we have jack Campbell who when healthy and on his game is better than cam talbot today. And smear job? So he didn’t lose his job twice to a rookie Matt Murray and then given away with a sweetener in the expansion draft to ensure his selection?
I guess I’m imagining Allan Walsh posting photos of flower with the Vegas spear photo shopped through him? If that was truly an issue with MAF he’d of said something and maybe even changed representation. He’s washed.

Who tf cares what his agent did. Why is that even relevant? Fact is, he was the best option available in case Campbell kept up his second half play and Mrazek couldn’t stay healthy. There is a strong argument even when those two are healthy he’s a much better option anyway.

Matt Murray being better than him has nothing to do with our situation. Again, we don’t have a Matt Murray. We have Campbell. Who a) can’t stay healthy and b) has been terrible in the second half of the season. I for one would have loved to have some insurance instead of being a Pat Maroon run away from Kallgren starting in the playoffs but you do you.