Kyle Dubas discussion II

[zeke]

just look for the posters who keep saying the players need to reward Dubas for his faith in them

i keep looking for those posters but can't seem to find them.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

You couldn't get find a better example of longterm thinking than this team.

Maybe try looking around without the homer glasses on, and you’d be able to see these examples yourself? Kings, Rangers are both setup for success for the next 12+ years (unlike the Leafs), and haven’t Doobled up multiple first round picks in the process. That’s long term thinking.

 

[hotpaws]

He was a 24 year old Dman that put up 36 points as a rookie, so I can see why there was potential there and to get him locked up but like I said 7 yrs for a 1 yr sample was pretty dumb.

The Marleau contract was one of worst ones all time

he also gave varying term to Rielly/Andy/Kadri/Brown and Hyman , you win some you lose some but that's the way you get players on value deals , the key is to limit your loses

 

[zeke]

FWI

Lou Lam has been named 2 X as Exec of the year [2020 & 2021] since leaving the Leafs in the past 3 years, Hardly someone who his peers believe time has passed him by.

Yep, the Old Boys Club loves Lou and hates young Kyle. We all know that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

how come nobody seems to mention how shit the Islanders are now? guess that isn't convenient.

It's been mentioned about 86 times already, that's just an estimate of course but yeah, not sure how anyone could have missed all those posts.

 

[Leaf Fans]

he also gave varying term to Rielly/Andy/Kadri/Brown and Hyman , you win some you lose some but that's the way you get players on value deals , the key is to limit your loses

Yup, Lou was pretty good in Toronto.

 

[Gutchecktime]

Dubas played no part in the Leafs selecting Marner regardless how desperate Dubies fan club are to give him credit ,

Dubies fan club? Weird thing to say.

I’m… just a Leaf fan.

 

[Damisoph]

honestly not sure what Lou did here other than have elite ELC talent fall into his lap.

Well, a quick google search would help

He acquired a shitload of picks leading up to the 2016 deadline. I mean, getting two 2nds for Nick Spaling and Roman Polak could be considered a huge win. Daniel Winnik for Connor Carrick and a 2nd. Unfortunately Hunter shit the bed with those 2nds.

Moved Phaneuf without retaining. Signed Mo and Kadri to team friendly deals.

We can enjoy our current roster without shitting on the previous guys.

 

[Gutchecktime]

Mitch was clearly a Hunter pick. It doesn't matter what corner Dubas was in, I don't think his opinion carried much weight at that time compared to Lou or Babs. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard Babs wanted Noah Hanifin but obviously Hunter's choice won out. Thankfully.

Lou wasn’t there. He wasn’t hired yet.

That’s why Dubas was co-GM.

 

[Damisoph]

Lou wasn’t there. He wasn’t hired yet.

haha for real? Memory is getting worse in my old age. I can remember moves from 30 years ago like they were yesterday.

 

[hotpaws]

Shifting whatnow?

Leafs have zero contracts extending into any player's late 30s. Unlike every other top team.

This is longterm planning.

we weren't discussing which teams had players signed until there late 30's , we were discussing building for future success

so tell me again how trading 2 x 2nds and a 3rd for 38 year old D and giving out long term deals to players who are going to regress building for future long term success

 

[The Podium]

Maybe try looking around without the homer glasses on, and you’d be able to see these examples yourself? Kings, Rangers are both setup for success for the next 12+ years (unlike the Leafs), and haven’t Doobled up multiple first round picks in the process. That’s long term thinking.

The Rangers are capped out with their young draft picks not producing for them…

32 % of their cap is tied into 30 year old players for the next 6-9 years. Even Goodrows 6 year deal at 3.6 and Trouba for 5 years at 8 at 29 years old is looking like a bad idea.

The Rangers are actually in one of the most win-now positions in the league.

The Kings have done really well building, but their contention is speculative based on a lot of high picks. No guarantee they become anything or navigate the cap properly.

 

[Gutchecktime]

He's only tinkered after signing Tavares? Uh?

Crazy stuff.

This is a Dubas team through and through.

 

[zeke]

Maybe try looking around without the homer glasses on, and you’d be able to see these examples yourself? Kings, Rangers are both setup for success for the next 12+ years (unlike the Leafs), and haven’t Doobled up multiple first round picks in the process. That’s long term thinking.

Let the Kings even make the playoffs first and/or have even one youngster playing at a top line level before telling me they're set up for longterm success.

The Rangers? They have only 2 youngish guys in their current impact core in Fox and Shesterkin, with the rest of their current core made up of 29/30/31yr olds with big contracts deep into their mid to late 30s in Panarin/Ziba/Kreider/Goodrow/Trouba.

 

[ACC1224]

We can enjoy our current roster without shitting on the previous guys.

Most of us can, it’s not that hard.

 

[Leaf Fans]

we weren't discussing which teams had players signed until there late 30's , we were discussing building for future success

so tell me again how trading 2 x 2nds and a 3rd for 38 year old D and giving out long term deals to players who are going to regress making building for future long term success

Dubas isn't only building for the future. He is also building for the present. Sure Tavares is a longer term deal but he will be around 34-35 when it ends, he still puts up a point per game ( or very close to it) He will likely be fine. Injuries have really slowed Muzzin down he might end badly but the jury is still out on that.

 

[The Podium]

Most of us can, it’s not that hard.

To be fair it goes both way, you just ignore the opinion of the pro-Lou anti-Dubas squad.

- Dubas spent Jarvis to get rid of Marleau!
- Well Lou signed Marleau
ACC1224 - we can talk about Dubas without shitting on Lou

 

[hotpaws]

i keep looking for those posters but can't seem to find them.

strange because there not hard to find

 

[hotpaws]

Dubas isn't only building for the future. He is also building for the present. Sure Tavares is a longer term deal but he will be around 34-35 when it ends, he still puts up a point per game ( or very close to it) He will likely be fine. Injuries have really slowed Muzzin down he might end badly but the jury is still out on that.

you should tell Zeke that since he's the one who said Dubie only made moves for future long term success

 

[zeke]

it could be worse or it could be much better but the problem is when he signed JT he could only tinker

His post-Tavares "tinkering":


Andersen ---> Campbell
Hutchinson -> Mrazek

Gardiner ---> Muzzin
Zaitsev -----> Brodie
Hainsey ----> Giordano
Dermott ----> Liljegren
Marincin ----> Holl
Ozhiganov --> Lyubushkin
Rosen -------> Sandin

Hyman ------> Bunting
Kadri ---------> Kerfoot
Kapanen ----> Mikheyev
Brown -------> Engvall
Johnsson -----> Kase
Gauthier ------> Kampf
Marleau ------> Spezza
Ennis ----------> Blackwell
Lindholm -----> Simmonds
Moore --------> Robertson

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Maybe try looking around without the homer glasses on, and you’d be able to see these examples yourself? Kings, Rangers are both setup for success for the next 12+ years (unlike the Leafs), and haven’t Doobled up multiple first round picks in the process. That’s long term thinking.

You anticipate a whack of Rangers playing into their 40's (or very late 30s)?

 

[zeke]

Well, a quick google search would help

He acquired a shitload of picks leading up to the 2016 deadline. I mean, getting two 2nds for Nick Spaling and Roman Polak could be considered a huge win. Daniel Winnik for Connor Carrick and a 2nd. Unfortunately Hunter shit the bed with those 2nds.

Moved Phaneuf without retaining. Signed Mo and Kadri to team friendly deals.

We can enjoy our current roster without shitting on the previous guys.

So he wasted a bunch of picks and signed a couple of decent deals that were more than outweighed by a number of horrendous deals.

And in the process completely wasted the the ELC years of the best group of ELC talent in hockey.

 

[hotpaws]

His post-Tavares "tinkering":


Andersen ---> Campbell
Hutchinson -> Mrazek

Gardiner ---> Muzzin
Zaitsev -----> Brodie
Hainsey ----> Giordano
Dermott ----> Liljegren
Marincin ----> Holl
Ozhiganov --> Lyubushkin
Rosen -------> Sandin

Hyman ------> Bunting
Kadri ---------> Kerfoot
Kapanen ----> Mikheyev
Brown -------> Engvall
Johnsson -----> Kase
Gauthier ------> Kampf
Marleau ------> Spezza
Ennis ----------> Blackwell
Lindholm -----> Simmonds
Moore --------> Robertson

and our core still has remained our core

 

[TMLegend]

It takes a real feat of bias and/or ignorance to look at the Leafs' current roster, contracts, and system and convince yourself that it exhibits short-term strategy....when it's clearly set up better for longterm success than any other org in hockey,

Not only is the team elite currently, but unlike the other elite teams it actually is set up to be elite for a long, long time. You couldn't get find a better example of longterm thinking than this team.

It's set up to be elite long term because the Leafs core guys are all under 30. Not because of long-term planning as Dubas has pissed away tons of futures the last few years.

 

[29Potvin]

Maybe try looking around without the homer glasses on, and you’d be able to see these examples yourself? Kings, Rangers are both setup for success for the next 12+ years (unlike the Leafs), and haven’t Doobled up multiple first round picks in the process. That’s long term thinking.

The Rangers are set for the next 12yrs?
They spent 2x 2rd, 3rd, 2 x 4rd and a 5rd pick at this tdl and have not won anything in the playoffs
They have 11mil in cap space for next season with 6 UFA F 2 RFA (Laf/KAAPO) still need a backup next season and Miller the following year.
That's a lot of draft capital gone already and cap tied for a team set for the next 12yrs