Kyle Dubas discussion II

[The Podium]

Counterpoint- Lou Lam drafted franchise #1C Auston Matthews for the Leafs and now his 50 goals in 50 games as the best pure goal scorer in the game is helping the Leafs to wins, and is now the success wave Kyle Dubas & Sheldon Keefe are riding.

The House was already cleaned before Lou got there, he unloaded Phaneuf, came last place as the team with the most points for a last place team in history (ie shouldn’t have been last) and won the lottery making the easiest draft pick in franchise history.

That has more to do with luck than anything Lou did.

I don’t like to discredit Lou, he did a great job turning over the culture in this organization. He would’ve been a perfect president or advisor. But let’s not give him credit for things like drafting Matthews. That is 70% luck, 30% common sense.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Zaitsev is literally the worst D in the league

I know people get triggered when we post stats, so here are the opinions of Ottawa’s fans that watch him nightly

Player Discussion - Nikita Zaitsev (RD)

doesnt even look like a bottom pairing dman this season. Just terrible

hfboards.mandatory.com

Tavares isn’t the reason Zaitsev had to be shipped off and it is actually hilarious that you think he’d be better than Holl or Bush.

Marleau asked to be traded, his family moved back to SJ before JT was even signed. Maybe he saw the writing on the wall, but his play fell off completely and was barely NHL caliber in the seasons that followed his tenure with the Leafs.

I think I deleted it but the other day when I asked someone to discuss how they preferred the 105 point roster to this one (I provided the forward and D list), I went through and totalled the NHL games played and points scored by the players after leaving Toronto. Crazy how few games and points any had after Toronto.

That is funny though when you get suggestions like Tavares as a reason for Zaitsev being shipped.....I mean fircking YAY!!!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Reading the landscape is going all in on a team that was clearly not worthy.

1. What Dubas did last year was not "all-in". "All-in" is more-so like what Florida did this year, or what Tampa did a couple years ago, or what Columbus did a few years ago.
2. That Leaf team was worthy of the deadline assets that were utilized, especially in the kind of situation we had. The landscape was read just fine.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

In fairness though the Leafs didn’t have the cap space to hand out such deals. (Before the alarms go off I’m not saying they would have anyway)

Trotz is excellent though. Shame the Leafs missed out on him.

In fairness though the Leafs didn’t have the cap space to hand out such deals. (Before the alarms go off I’m not saying they would have anyway)

Trotz is excellent though. Shame the Leafs missed out on him.

Their bottom 6 makes a combined roughly 15M our current bottom 6 makes roughly 8M. We've put together a pretty good forward group for very cheap despite being tight up against the cap and we are a way better team.

We've been saying this all along that it is better to overpay the stars than it is to aging veteran bottom 6ers. Now Lou can't move most of them and he is losing good players like Toews because of it.

I actually think Lou did more good than bad in his tenure here but that was for the Job he was brought in to do, which was the rebuild. But as far as construction of a team in today's NHL, I have more faith in what Dubas has done here than what he has done with the Isles or when he was with the devils the last few years. Ive been saying this the past few seasons that while he did see some immediate success, he was crippling their team with the cap and depleting their farm for the seasons going forward based on overpaying pretty well every forward on their team going into their 30s.

We currently have one of the top teams in the league. We still have some warts but we have our stars still signed for a few more years in their primes, we've managed to find cheap talent to surround the rest of the roster that are for the most part making a decent impact and we have a deep prospect pool that look to be making an impact in the next year or 2. That is how you remain competitive for a long time like the Hawks had done. Now we just need our core pieces to start getting the job done in the playoffs

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

The House was already cleaned before Lou got there, he unloaded Phaneuf, came last place as the team with the most points for a last place team in history (ie shouldn’t have been last) and won the lottery making the easiest draft pick in franchise history.

That has more to do with luck than anything Lou did.

I don’t like to discredit Lou, he did a great job turning over the culture in this organization. He would’ve been a perfect president or advisor. But let’s not give him credit for things like drafting Matthews. That is 70% luck, 30% common sense.

It's literally "just don't screw this up". That said, yes he does go under Lou's ledger.

 

[Damisoph]

The House was already cleaned before Lou got there, he unloaded Phaneuf, came last place as the team with the most points for a last place team in history (ie shouldn’t have been last) and won the lottery making the easiest draft pick in franchise history.

That has more to do with luck than anything Lou did.

I don’t like to discredit Lou, he did a great job turning over the culture in this organization. He would’ve been a perfect president or advisor. But let’s not give him credit for things like drafting Matthews. That is 70% luck, 30% common sense.

Lou made some good trades while he was here, but crediting him with drafting Matthews? A shaved monkey would have made that pick Mess cmon now

 

[hotpaws]

Unless Lou rigged the lottery I'm not sure why he would get any credit for drafting Auston Matthews lol. The team was already on a path to tanking before he was hired.

the credit should go to Dubas since the rumor was Shanny/Lou/Hunter and the board wanted to trade down and pick Willies brother Alex while adding another 2nd but Dubie stood up to them and said ''thou shalt not trade down and we shall draft Mathews'' or words to that affect

 

[hotpaws]

Yes, Tavares and Muzzin's deals ending at age 34, when every other elite team is on the hook for many more mid to late 30s contract years, is a perfect example of the Leafs longterm thinking.

As is adding a player as good as Gio with zero term to worry about.

but you said his moves were to build for long term future success unfortunately they mostly look like short term win now moves so why are you shifting the goal posts ?

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

For the record - the Zaitsev contract was awful on day one according to the analytics. Of course back then poor dumb zeke was skeptical of the analytics and thought they weren't accurate when it came to Zaitsev. That was dumb. Lesson learned.

He was a 24 year old Dman that put up 36 points as a rookie, so I can see why there was potential there and to get him locked up but like I said 7 yrs for a 1 yr sample was pretty dumb.

The Marleau contract was one of worst ones all time

 

[hotpaws]

I understand needing to fire the GM for the lack of playoff success. Someone needs to take the bullet.

But fans have to understand that this team can be in such a worst spot in terms of quality. It could be SO much worse in a lot of ways. Playoff success will happen. I'd rather give Dubas a lot of leash to let him keep tinkering this team. It will happen eventually.

but I'm with you... it's extremely frustrating watching last couple season go down the toilet.

it could be worse or it could be much better but the problem is when he signed JT he could only tinker

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Mitch was clearly a Hunter pick. It doesn't matter what corner Dubas was in, I don't think his opinion carried much weight at that time compared to Lou or Babs. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've heard Babs wanted Noah Hanifin but obviously Hunter's choice won out. Thankfully.

Doesn't matter who likes who, if you are at the helm, you are at the helm. People claiming Marner was "inherited" are just pushing an agenda.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Dubas played no part in the Leafs selecting Marner regardless how desperate Dubies fan club are to give him credit ,

Sure he did. He also signed Marner to an extension.

 

[Gary Nylund]

But that Marleau deal, WTF was he thinking!?

I guess we'll never know but yeah, that was the most obvious mistake ever from day one. I mean signing him was fine, but that last year oh boy, no excuse for that whatsoever.

 

[ACC1224]

Their bottom 6 makes a combined roughly 15M our current bottom 6 makes roughly 8M. We've put together a pretty good forward group for very cheap despite being tight up against the cap and we are a way better team.

We've been saying this all along that it is better to overpay the stars than it is to aging veteran bottom 6ers. Now Lou can't move most of them and he is losing good players like Toews because of it.

I actually think Lou did more good than bad in his tenure here but that was for the Job he was brought in to do, which was the rebuild. But as far as construction of a team in today's NHL, I have more faith in what Dubas has done here than what he has done with the Isles or when he was with the devils the last few years. Ive been saying this the past few seasons that while he did see some immediate success, he was crippling their team with the cap and depleting their farm for the seasons going forward based on overpaying pretty well every forward on their team going into their 30s.

We currently have one of the top teams in the league. We still have some warts but we have our stars still signed for a few more years in their primes, we've managed to find cheap talent to surround the rest of the roster that are for the most part making a decent impact and we have a deep prospect pool that look to be making an impact in the next year or 2. That is how you remain competitive for a long time like the Hawks had done. Now we just need our core pieces to start getting the job done in the playoffs

Yep I’ve said many times he’s done an excellent job managing the flat cap. We don’t know though what he would have spent money on had he had more of it available.

 

[zeke]

If you don't know or follow other teams in thee league to see what their coaches and GMs are doing, you don't know enough to be speaking on matters of whether or not anyone is a good GM/coach.

I'm a hockey fans who's favourite team is the Leafs.

You're a Leafs fan who doesn't watch hockey when the Leafs aren't playing.

So learn to be humble and shut up. You might learn a thing or two. Or you can sit back and be a snarky smartass and be look stupid.

 

[hotpaws]

Zaitsev is literally the worst D in the league

I know people get triggered when we post stats, so here are the opinions of Ottawa’s fans that watch him nightly

Player Discussion - Nikita Zaitsev (RD)

doesnt even look like a bottom pairing dman this season. Just terrible

hfboards.mandatory.com

Tavares isn’t the reason Zaitsev had to be shipped off and it is actually hilarious that you think he’d be better than Holl or Bush.

Marleau asked to be traded, his family moved back to SJ before JT was even signed. Maybe he saw the writing on the wall, but his play fell off completely and was barely NHL caliber in the seasons that followed his tenure with the Leafs.

not only is Z the worst D in the league but he's the worst D in the history of the game , am i doing this right ? did Dubie's light just start to shine a little bit brighter ?

 

[Leaf Fans]

the credit should go to Dubas since the rumor was Shanny/Lou/Hunter and the board wanted to trade down and pick Willies brother Alex while adding another 2nd but Dubie stood up to them and said ''thou shalt not trade down and we shall draft Mathews'' or words to that affect

I don't think that is the case but as part of the management team, he shares in the credit. Besides, Dubas re-signed him.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Dubas played no part in the Leafs selecting Marner regardless how desperate Dubies fan club are to give him credit ,

Truth.

 

[SprDaVE]

it could be worse or it could be much better but the problem is when he signed JT he could only tinker

He's only tinkered after signing Tavares? Uh?

 

[hotpaws]

I don't think that is the case but as part of the management team, he shares in the credit. Besides, Dubas re-signed him.

it was exactly the case and not only does Dubie get credit for us selecting AM but Mathews also gives Dubie credit for teaching him how to shoot

 

[zeke]

but you said his moves were to build for long term future success unfortunately they mostly look like short term win now moves so why are you shifting the goal posts ?

Shifting whatnow?

Leafs have zero contracts extending into any player's late 30s. Unlike every other top team.

This is longterm planning.

 

[zeke]

I view Lou's Leafs tenure similarly to Babcock. Both guys were what we needed at the time, and the game has since passed them by. Sure Lou made some mistakes, every GM does.

honestly not sure what Lou did here other than have elite ELC talent fall into his lap.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's only tinkered after signing Tavares? Uh?

Can't see who you're responding to but adding Muzzin, Giordano, Brodie and Boosh is some pretty advanced tinkering indeed.

 

[Morbo]

how come nobody seems to mention how shit the Islanders are now? guess that isn't convenient.

 

[Leaf Fans]

it was exactly the case and not only does Dubie get credit for us selecting AM but Mathews also gives credit for Dubie teaching him how to shoot

No, he only gets credit for the things that he has done. Like being part of the team that drafted Matthews, and re-signing him, but not for things he didn't drink. He also accepts the blame for the poor decisions he has made.