Kyle Dubas Discussion (continued) the 2021 edition

[MattySnipes]

I know you can’t change the past, but in hindsight, I wonder if it would have made a difference if we had given bridge contracts to Nylander and Marner?

Only player play which has dropped since contract extension is the hometown boy. So if Mitch signed a bridge, and kept performing crap as he has, we would definitely be able to re-sign him cheaper.

However Matthews and Nylander have stepped up goals and paces. If we signed those two to bridge deals, we would be crying right now.

I think Mitch will figure it out but it's definitely worrisome to see how how he has trended since extension close to $11M.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Still think a few comments here are odd. The core four forwards hsve all played pretty well over the first two games. Matthews/Marner are only a matter of time before they light things up offensively.

They lost last night because their goalie had an off night and structurally the skaters aren't fully in season form yet. Its absurd to think 2 games into a season (a season with no warm up preseason games) that anyone can make any deep pronouncements about the state of the team

I agree, but at the same time, is this the best lineup? Is anyone on the taxi squad more deserving to be playing? If so, when will we have the necessary cap space?

 

[Captain Crunch]

Only player play which has dropped since contract extension is the hometown boy. So if Mitch signed a bridge, and kept performing crap as he has, we would definitely be able to re-sign him cheaper.

However Matthews and Nylander have stepped up goals and paces. If we signed those two to bridge deals, we would be crying right now.

I think Mitch will figure it out but it's definitely worrisome to see how how he has trended since extension close to $11M.

That’s true. I just meant would we have been able to better address the defence, as well as have a deeper forward group?

 

[MattySnipes]

That’s true. I just meant would we have been able to better address the defence, as well as have a deeper forward group?

Yes slightly but it would come at a cost right. More complete team but the elite talent is on short term deals. I feel Matthews would already ask for more. Same with Nylander. Glad they still got some years left.

I don't know how I feel about bridge deals vs. Long term. Especially for star forwards.

I'm honestly happy the 3 are locked up long-term. They will figure it out. Marner being so down has really upset the fanbase.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Unfortunately, a lot of fans utilize supposedly given patience through past failure in Leaf history to justify a ridiculous amount of impatience in the very promising present, leading them to a desire for knee-jerk moves that would almost guarantee further failure.

I totally agree that we do not need to make knee-jerk reactions. However, maybe Dubas himself made a knee-jerk reaction by forming such a top heavy lineup, leaving basically little to nothing to address other areas. And yes, nobody saw COVID coming and the problems it has caused with the cap, but at the same time, would it be so awful to have some cap room always available, so that when injuries or problems arise in the lineup, something can be done that actually addresses these occurrences?

 

[cesareborgia]

He was available. Not Dubas type of player he's taller than 5'9" and weighs more than 170.

Marner for Dubois and picks, and sign Josh Anderson. Suddenly we're a contender.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner for Dubois and picks, and sign Josh Anderson. Suddenly we're a contender.

After watching Mitch in the play-ins and the first 2 games of the season I wouldn't trade Dubois for Mitch and his contract straght up if I were Columbus. I'd be looking at Winnipeg for Laine.

 

[Tairy Greene]

After watching Mitch in the play-ins and the first 2 games of the season I wouldn't trade Dubois for Mitch and his contract straght up if I were Columbus. I'd be looking at Winnipeg for Laine.

PLD for Laine is a fair deal, I'm just not sure either organization would be keen to trade for another player who has publicly asked for a trade.

 

[Pookie]

Yes slightly but it would come at a cost right. More complete team but the elite talent is on short term deals. I feel Matthews would already ask for more. Same with Nylander. Glad they still got some years left.

I don't know how I feel about bridge deals vs. Long term. Especially for star forwards.

I'm honestly happy the 3 are locked up long-term. They will figure it out. Marner being so down has really upset the fanbase.

I don’t consider Matthews locked up long term.

This season plus 2 more before he hits the lame duck year and becomes a UFA at the end of it.

wouldn’t risk a Tavares like exit with him. If he can’t be resigned at the start of his last year, he must be moved.

Not to mention Rielly is UFA in two years. We are going to need to find money.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Yes, you and many posters are incorrect. About it being the same as last year. About what actually happened last year. About the reasons for what we have actually seen this year. Etc. You are seeing what you want to see. Even beside all that, it's beyond ridiculous to be making the type of statements that have been made here, after the first loss of the season, in what would normally be pre-season games.

It is the same as last year. Yes it is only the 2nd game so some sloppy play like bad passes or fumbled pucks is to be expected but we are seeing the same tendencies as we have the last 5 years with this group. They take periods off and aren't skating. They're also doing a horrible job of covering their man. There is no reason for the opposing team's forwards to have such an easy time in front of our net. Ottawa played their first game in what 10 months and they out worked us. We were out worked in the Montreal game as well. We don't have the luxury of using "its the first couple games" when it comes down to the other team skating and ours is not.

This team has gotten away with having winning records because we have enough skill to outscore opponents (especially on the PP). When it all comes down to it, we won't go far in the playoffs because this team doesn't bring a consistent effort. Its been the same crap the last so many years and they don't seem to be doing anything about it. Even though they preach it after every loss in the post-game pressers. No more excuses. This core group is getting paid a lot of money and need to start showing a winning attitude.

I dont think Dubas should be fired for these same outcomes from this team because it is literally no different under the previous regimes. Under tough love Lou and hardass Mike Babcock this same group of players took periods or even nights off as well and played horrible defensively. Same under Burke. Even though we have gone through several GMs, several coaches, different cores and different support players, its the same crap. I really don't get why this team can't show a consistent effort. We are getting beat by teams that we should be destroying. Dubas has shuffled the support players several times now and we get the same results. This is completely on the players. Not the GM, not the coach. No more excuses. Get it done

 

[Pookie]

Yep. Conference finals last year, upset the defending champs the year before that... and with far less talent. Those are the results I’m looking for.

Not really interested in rel xgf Corsi/60 “results”.

me neither.

And if someone tries to use any advanced stats to attempt to compare NHL teams this year, give them an extra virtual kick in the shins for me.

We don’t play the entire NHL this year. We play 6 other teams. At best, any stat can only be used to compare with these 6 other teams.

you’d think stats “experts” would take that as a given.... but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

View attachment 384847

This dinosaur looks pretty amused.

Wonder how things would look with a more traditional bottom 6 model behind the top guys? He’s sure done a great job plugging players in on the Island that have seen the team perform greater than the sum of their parts. No questions about leadership there, either.

We had a more traditional bottom 6 a few years ago with Komarov, Kadri and Martin and it was the same results.

Lou has essentially the same roster there as when he started. The only ones he's really added are Pageau, Brassard and Varlamov. Trotz has done a great job of getting that team to play hard working defensive hockey. Our team needs to take note of how hard they work.

 

[sparxx87]

We had a more traditional bottom 6 a few years ago with Komarov, Kadri and Martin and it was the same results.

Lou has essentially the same roster there as when he started. The only ones he's really added are Pageau, Brassard and Varlamov. Trotz has done a great job of getting that team to play hard working defensive hockey. Our team needs to take note of how hard they work.

Yeah, in their first year back in the playoffs with 8-9 rookies. For me, that was the only year they overachieved. The following year was a toss up against Boston, and the year after that I’d say Leafs were favoured.

Not sure I’d classify Kadri-Komorov bottom 6ers when they were most often used to matchup against the other teams top line. They knew their role and were stars in it. This sequence is one of the best you’ll ever see from a duo who knew what was needed when the team wasn’t feeling it. Check Komorov, singularly focused on taking Ovechkin out of the play.



Man, I loved those guys... but at least they’ve got Kerfoot, right?

 

[Dekes For Days]

So are you saying Leafs outplayed the Senators and should have won the game?

There's a pretty wide gap between "Leafs outplayed the Senators and should have won the game" and "Sens absolutely destroyed the Leafs last night in almost every way imaginable".

 

[Mickey Marner]

Yeah, in their first year back in the playoffs with 8-9 rookies. For me, that was the only year they overachieved. The following year was a toss up against Boston, and the year after that I’d say Leafs were favoured.

Not sure I’d classify Kadri-Komorov bottom 6ers when they were most often used to matchup against the other teams top line. They knew their role and were stars in it. This sequence is one of the best you’ll ever see from a duo who knew what was needed when the team wasn’t feeling it. Check Komorov, singularly focused on taking Ovechkin out of the play.



Man, I loved those guys... but at least they’ve got Kerfoot, right?

The Washington series was the high water mark for this core and they've basically treaded water since. That Washington team was stacked and we took them to six with five OT games. We've never really recaptured that urgency and the game-over-game improvements we saw then.

 

[sparxx87]

The Washington series was the high water mark for this core and they've basically treaded water since. That Washington team was stacked and we took them to six with five OT games. We've never really recaptured that urgency and the game-over-game improvements we saw then.

100% agree.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Yeah, in their first year back in the playoffs with 8-9 rookies. For me, that was the only year they overachieved. The following year was a toss up against Boston, and the year after that I’d say Leafs were favoured.

Not sure I’d classify Kadri-Komorov bottom 6ers when they were most often used to matchup against the other teams top line. They knew their role and were stars in it. This sequence is one of the best you’ll ever see from a duo who knew what was needed when the team wasn’t feeling it. Check Komorov, singularly focused on taking Ovechkin out of the play.



Man, I loved those guys... but at least they’ve got Kerfoot, right?

Forechecking, physical play and defensive assignments is what they brought which is what I would consider a bottom 6er but Ya Kadri is a 2C. I think Kerfoot has more to offer than he did last season but he was playing with a broken face. He looked good in the play in round but if we could have a guy like Jenner or Cizikas replace him in the bottom 6, I would.

 

[sparxx87]

Forechecking, physical play and defensive assignments is what they brought which is what I would consider a bottom 6er but Ya Kadri is a 2C. I think Kerfoot has more to offer than he did last season but he was playing with a broken face. He looked good in the play in round but if we could have a guy like Jenner or Cizikas replace him in the bottom 6, I would.

That’s fair, but don’t forget, Kadri was a back-to-back 30 goal scorer in that role with 1st unit PP... for $4.5M. The fact that he could plug in different roles made him all the more valuable.

I’m with you on Jenner or Cizikas, too. I’ve tried to like Kerfoot and he just does nothing for me. Too easy to play against for that role, and doesn’t bring any grit or nasty unless it’s dangerously driving former teammate Erik Johnson head first into the boards from behind.

 

[egd27]

How do you figure? Zaitsev Komarov Martin to 4 years, PM to 3 - I see no evidence we were on an upward trajectory at the end with him

Well unless you look at the points achieved in his 3 season. But other than that.........

 

[justashadowof]

The Leafs' playoff crowd sure do hate that knuckle-dragging physical hockey.

 

[egd27]

Only player play which has dropped since contract extension is the hometown boy. So if Mitch signed a bridge, and kept performing crap as he has, we would definitely be able to re-sign him cheaper.

However Matthews and Nylander have stepped up goals and paces. If we signed those two to bridge deals, we would be crying right now.

I think Mitch will figure it out but it's definitely worrisome to see how how he has trended since extension close to $11M.

I know his is heresy to many, but maybe Babcock was right and he should be playing with Tavares rather than Matthews.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Well unless you look at the points achieved in his 3 season. But other than that.........

Right because it's all about regular season points
Random gm moves to a new team and they get more points it's all his doing

 

[All Mod Cons]

Yeah, in their first year back in the playoffs with 8-9 rookies. For me, that was the only year they overachieved. The following year was a toss up against Boston, and the year after that I’d say Leafs were favoured.

Not sure I’d classify Kadri-Komorov bottom 6ers when they were most often used to matchup against the other teams top line. They knew their role and were stars in it. This sequence is one of the best you’ll ever see from a duo who knew what was needed when the team wasn’t feeling it. Check Komorov, singularly focused on taking Ovechkin out of the play.



Man, I loved those guys... but at least they’ve got Kerfoot, right?

That was one of the most beautiful things I've seen in my time as a Leafs fan.

 

[egd27]

Right because it's all about regular season points
Random gm moves to a new team and they get more points it's all his doing

Well no, but the fact is that their point totals did increase in each of his 3 seasons. So that's good, isn't it?

Try not to read too much into things all the time.

 

[ToneDog]

Well no, but the fact is that their point totals did increase in each of his 3 seasons. So that's good, isn't it?

Try not to read too much into things all the time.

Isles could win the Cup and some could not bare to give Lou any credit. It was all Trotz and a whole bunch of luck. Here for some it is anybody but Dubas and having no luck as each futile year passes.