Kyle Dubas Discussion (continued) the 2021 edition

[colchar]

I am not a fan of Kyle 'Spreadsheet' Dubas, but people have to realize that they are two games into the season, and their only exhibition game was a scrimmage.

 

[FraumBallard]

Look, when your first overall, franchise player is 0 points and -3, and Marner another top offensive player, have games like this... it really wouldn't matter who the GM was. This isn't on Dubas... this is on the players who want to be MVP level paid, but have yet to play like it. Fire Dubas, bring in someone else... still doesn't make a difference.... Either Matty and Marner need to grow up and play to win, or we need a massive shake up. The peripheral stuff just doesn't matter, when your top guysplay like that. .

Wonder Boy has no clue.
Who pretends to run this team?
I don't get your logic.
He is the poison.
This is his team.
I love Thornton/Simmonds/Bogo.
They are quite simply past their due date,although;we need Bogo.
Total Disaster.
WB drafts what we have plenty of 5'6" 145 lbs.
Shanahan , in a brief moment of clarity ; tells WB - " Get some toughness".
And we will finally see WB/BS/SK
get what they deserve.
All because WB bamboozles Shanny.
They all gotta go mgt wise.
Trade Marner ( At a loss of course )
Use $ ( dump kerfoot/ vesey/
holl etc... to get cap space.)
Sign Josh Anderson and Petro.
Then start building.
Dubas has no clue.
Can't wait until he's fired.
I sound mad but it's more like resignation that it should have happened long ago but we need more patience.
Done.
NP.
It can't be far away.

 

[rumman]

It’s only the second game of the season, but is anyone really surprised that last year’s problems have already shown up? Signing vets running on fumes wasn’t the answer, and I get the “experience in the room” angle, but does anyone really believe these young entitled Leafs think they can learn anything from the aforementioned vets? I think they think they know it all already and by the time they’re mature enough to realize they don’t...... they’ll be playing elsewhere............

 

[Dekes For Days]

It's sure going to be fun seeing the same old people making the same old wildly incorrect claims in this thread every single time we lose a game all season.

 

[Racer88]

It's sure going to be fun seeing the same old people making the same old wildly incorrect claims in this thread every single time we lose a game all season.

Many posters myself included are claiming that we are seeing the same sort of performance as last year. Do you feel that this is incorrect?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Many posters myself included are claiming that we are seeing the same sort of performance as last year. Do you feel that this is incorrect?

Yes, you and many posters are incorrect. About it being the same as last year. About what actually happened last year. About the reasons for what we have actually seen this year. Etc. You are seeing what you want to see. Even beside all that, it's beyond ridiculous to be making the type of statements that have been made here, after the first loss of the season, in what would normally be pre-season games.

 

[Pookie]

It’s only the second game of the season, but is anyone really surprised that last year’s problems have already shown up? Signing vets running on fumes wasn’t the answer, and I get the “experience in the room” angle, but does anyone really believe these young entitled Leafs think they can learn anything from the aforementioned vets? I think they think they know it all already and by the time they’re mature enough to realize they don’t...... they’ll be playing elsewhere............

when you spend your money up front though.... tinkering is all you can do.

 

[Crosscrease14]

Wonder Boy has no clue.
Who pretends to run this team?
I don't get your logic.
He is the poison.
This is his team.
I love Thornton/Simmonds/Bogo.
They are quite simply past their due date,although;we need Bogo.
Total Disaster.
WB drafts what we have plenty of 5'6" 145 lbs.
Shanahan , in a brief moment of clarity ; tells WB - " Get some toughness".
And we will finally see WB/BS/SK
get what they deserve.
All because WB bamboozles Shanny.
They all gotta go mgt wise.
Trade Marner ( At a loss of course )
Use $ ( dump kerfoot/ vesey/
holl etc... to get cap space.)
Sign Josh Anderson and Petro.
Then start building.
Dubas has no clue.
Can't wait until he's fired.
I sound mad but it's more like resignation that it should have happened long ago but we need more patience.
Done.
NP.
It can't be far away.

Josh Anderson is signed by Montreal until the end of time. Petro signed long term with Vegas. You can't sign players on other teams

Petro would've wanted 10m+ in Toronto with taxes and then you'd want him gone too.

Vesey makes like 1m so almost no cap savings by dumping him as well.

'Wonderboy' might not be the greatest gm ever but at least he knows the basics..

 

[BrianK]

Sandin and Liljegren seem like their ready. We cant know for sure since Dubas and co. refuse to play them. But from what other players say, scrimmage and their AHL performances they need to be in the NHL. Instead Dubas signs Lehtonen and Bogosian. and keeps them 7 8 on the depth chart while we have yet another poor defensive performance. I would be surprised if any other team could match our defensive depth while simultaneously be so bad at defense.

 

[Apex Predator]

Sandin and Liljegren seem like their ready. We cant know for sure since Dubas and co. refuse to play them. But from what other players say, scrimmage and their AHL performances they need to be in the NHL. Instead Dubas signs Lehtonen and Bogosian. and keeps them 7 8 on the depth chart while we have yet another poor defensive performance. I would be surprised if any other team could match our defensive depth while simultaneously be so bad at defense.

Then they play and struggle and everyone complains we didn’t get depth. There’s no way in knowing they are ready tell we see them play. We couldn’t go into the season with a D of Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, Holl, Dermott, Sandin, Liljegren.

 

[justashadowof]

when you spend your money up front though.... tinkering is all you can do.

There's always getting on your knees in front of your superstar-salaried forwards and begging them to care more about the results of the games.

 

[Pookie]

There's always getting on your knees in front of your superstar-salaried forwards and begging them to care more about the results of the games.

well Dubas admitted he made a mistake in undervaluing leadership.

I suspect that rather than tinker to bring in aging leadership, he is going to have to move one of the core.

It will be the most consequential decision he will have made in his short career.

 

[Racer88]

Yes, you and many posters are incorrect. About it being the same as last year. About what actually happened last year. About the reasons for what we have actually seen this year. Etc. You are seeing what you want to see. Even beside all that, it's beyond ridiculous to be making the type of statements that have been made here, after the first loss of the season, in what would normally be pre-season games.

I respect your opinion but we will have to disagree on this.
In both games I have watched we have seen poor goal tending, poor execution of of defensive assignments, Marner very perimeter and ineffective. Many times in both games we have seen the Leaf players get run over eg. the cross check on Matthews that went un answered.
I look forward to hearing how you feel that is different from last year

 

[BrianK]

Then they play and struggle and everyone complains we didn’t get depth. There’s no way in knowing they are ready tell we see them play. We couldn’t go into the season with a D of Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, Holl, Dermott, Sandin, Liljegren.

Then play them.. By all accounts they seem ready...

I would hate to play for Dubas. You have two guys who seem to be ready, the players like them (Tavares comments etc..) and instead he signs Bogosian and Thornton because we need that veteran locker room presence . Give me a break. Tavares Matthews seem like mature good dudes.. He should show some of these players a bit of respect and stop throwing guys under the bus. The way Keefe talked about Engval like come on.. Maybe he wasn't in good condition but we dont need you talking to the media about that..

 

[Fogelhund]

Wonder Boy has no clue.
Who pretends to run this team?
I don't get your logic.
He is the poison.
This is his team.
I love Thornton/Simmonds/Bogo.
They are quite simply past their due date,although;we need Bogo.
Total Disaster.
WB drafts what we have plenty of 5'6" 145 lbs.
Shanahan , in a brief moment of clarity ; tells WB - " Get some toughness".
And we will finally see WB/BS/SK
get what they deserve.
All because WB bamboozles Shanny.
They all gotta go mgt wise.
Trade Marner ( At a loss of course )
Use $ ( dump kerfoot/ vesey/
holl etc... to get cap space.)
Sign Josh Anderson and Petro.
Then start building.
Dubas has no clue.
Can't wait until he's fired.
I sound mad but it's more like resignation that it should have happened long ago but we need more patience.
Done.
NP.
It can't be far away.

When you resort to junk like Wonder Boy name calling, and think trading for Josh Anderson, and signing him and Pietro are the answers, you've lost all credibility. You'd literally have a junk lineup.

Dubas is "poison"... LOL... I mean that's just funny.

The only thing that is close, is that maybe Marner needs to be traded... to build a better balanced team... even then, if Matthews isn't going to play hard, it doesn't matter.

 

[nuck]

I think you guys are forgetting the elephant in the room. BABOCKS EGO! Did you see he gives all those minutes to Marleau er Thornton er oops. Seriously guys Freddy can't stop a beachball and thats nobody's fault but his. They didn't have an NHL goalie last night so they never had a chance. Same as last year and years before he is a slow starter but unlike last season in the previous years he blasted out of the fog. Will he do it this year? Who knows but shaking up the position players isn't the answer yet. Marner had 24 minutes and didn't manage a shot on goal and that has nothing to do with Jumbo's foot speed because this guy is supposed to be elite. Matthews has 10 shots on goal and hasn't scored yet and is 48% on the dot. The sample is small and skaters can have 10 weak games a year and still win a scoring title but if your #1g has 10 bad games you might not make the playoffs.

In closing, Freddie is sucking hard but its only 2 games. Odds are the Sens were going to be able to sneak in 1 or 2 wins no matter what. Its tough to say replace player X because he is bad when only 3 or 4 guys are actually good.

 

[killer1980]

I am not a fan of Kyle 'Spreadsheet' Dubas, but people have to realize that they are two games into the season, and their only exhibition game was a scrimmage.

Dubas is closing in on his 3rd year as GM so we aren't just reacting to 2 games. He sold management and a lot of desperate fans on a team that was younger, faster and better goal scorers than the rest of the league. So, he put together his team. For many obvious reasons that didn't work and he has now changed his vision. Now he wants old slow big guys that are past their prime and can't do much of anything. Management got what they wanted, a young yes man who looks good in a suit but has all the hockey instincts of a toad. Until he is gone this team will be cellar dwellers just like I predicted when they hired that incompetent loser almost 3 years ago.

 

[Fogelhund]

Good old Leafs fans, never change, never change...

 

[Dekes For Days]

In both games I have watched we have seen poor goal tending, poor execution of of defensive assignments, Marner very perimeter and ineffective. Many times in both games we have seen the Leaf players get run over eg. the cross check on Matthews that went un answered.
I look forward to hearing how you feel that is different from last year

Defense has had stretches of really messy play, but that's true of literally every single team in every single game so far, in case you weren't aware. Again, we are two games in with no pre-season. I'm not sure what people expected. Last year was our best year defensively under this core, so not really sure why you think that's similar.

Marner didn't have the best game 2, but "perimeter and ineffective" is still a really inaccurate description. It's really sad that our fans can't appreciate an amazing talent like Marner because they let their misunderstanding of contract valuation skew their whole perception. If anyone has been "perimeter and ineffective" on that line, it's Thornton by a mile.

Nobody has gotten "run over" in these games. Not sure what you're talking about. The biggest hit from either side in either game was probably a Leaf hitting a Leaf. Nobody even knew Matthews had been hit like that, and there was like 10 seconds left in a tie game. What exactly did you expect to happen? Also we literally had a fight (which we won) earlier in that game (which we also won).

Really, the main thing that's been the same as last year is Andersen being really disappointing. I'm sure glad Dubas got Campbell.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Defense has had stretches of really messy play, but that's true of literally every single team in every single game so far, in case you weren't aware. Again, we are two games in with no pre-season. I'm not sure what people expected. Last year was our best year defensively under this core, so not really sure why you think that's similar.

Marner didn't have the best game 2, but "perimeter and ineffective" is still a really inaccurate description. It's really sad that our fans can't appreciate an amazing talent like Marner because they let their misunderstanding of contract valuation skew their whole perception. If anyone has been "perimeter and ineffective" on that line, it's Thornton by a mile.

Nobody has gotten "run over" in these games. Not sure what you're talking about. The biggest hit from either side in either game was probably a Leaf hitting a Leaf. Nobody even knew Matthews had been hit like that, and there was like 10 seconds left in a tie game. What exactly did you expect to happen? Also we literally had a fight (which we won) earlier in that game (which we also won).

Really, the only thing that's been the same as last year is Andersen being really disappointing. I'm sure glad Dubas got Campbell.

Cherry would say you live in billykin ha. Marner had 2 shots in two game on 24:35 minutes of ice time average. Thornton needs to go off the line. Marner is the setup man with Robertson playing the left side. If you can put Thornton on the left side,you can put Robertson there. Keefe needs to react

 

[Fogelhund]

Defense has had stretches of really messy play, but that's true of literally every single team in every single game so far, in case you weren't aware. Again, we are two games in with no pre-season. I'm not sure what people expected. Last year was our best year defensively under this core, so not really sure why you think that's similar.

Marner didn't have the best game 2, but "perimeter and ineffective" is still a really inaccurate description. It's really sad that our fans can't appreciate an amazing talent like Marner because they let their misunderstanding of contract valuation skew their whole perception. If anyone has been "perimeter and ineffective" on that line, it's Thornton by a mile.

Nobody has gotten "run over" in these games. Not sure what you're talking about. The biggest hit from either side in either game was probably a Leaf hitting a Leaf. Nobody even knew Matthews had been hit like that, and there was like 10 seconds left in a tie game. What exactly did you expect to happen? Also we literally had a fight (which we won) earlier in that game (which we also won).

Really, the main thing that's been the same as last year is Andersen being really disappointing. I'm sure glad Dubas got Campbell.

One of the challenges with this fanbase, is that we could go onto win the next forty games, and then lose one, and all the boo birds would be back out in full force.

The second, is as you say, no perspective that Andersen almost always is bad at the start of the year, and we had no preseason.

But... we need more out of Marner and Matthews.. and so far, that's not on display. It's not just points, it's effort, and showing the will to win... maybe a humiliating game, and a stern talking to does the trick and light bulbs go on... or not... but at least most of this fan base should have the patience to wait a few games before going full lynch mob... I mean, what a terrible "fan base".

Fans talk about the core, and built on skill primarily... I mean, you don't give up on Marner, Nylander and Matthews as a core when they are that young... you just don't. You give it time, let them mature, and then adjust as necessary. But you give it time, and have patience. Acorn seeds don't grow into trees their first year.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner had 2 shots in two game on 24:35 minutes of ice time average.

Not sure why you're evaluating Marner by shots...

Thornton needs to go off the line.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said... Hopefully he'll find his legs at some point, but he has not been good so far.

 

[Bomber0104]

Good old Leafs fans, never change, never change...

Right back at ya:

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Not sure why you're evaluating Marner by shots...

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said... Hopefully he'll find his legs at some point, but he has not been good so far.

2 shots in almost 25 minutes average Dekes. Thats brutal man. 1 measly assist. He needs to be the lines setup guy. Thornton just doesn’t work there.
I’m biggest Marner Homer on the board unless someone is more and sneaking under the radar on me. I’ll try harder to be biggest homer if he gives me something ha

 

[BertCorbeau]

Dubas is closing in on his 3rd year as GM so we aren't just reacting to 2 games. He sold management and a lot of desperate fans on a team that was younger, faster and better goal scorers than the rest of the league. So, he put together his team. For many obvious reasons that didn't work and he has now changed his vision. Now he wants old slow big guys that are past their prime and can't do much of anything. Management got what they wanted, a young yes man who looks good in a suit but has all the hockey instincts of a toad. Until he is gone this team will be cellar dwellers just like I predicted when they hired that incompetent loser almost 3 years ago.

Those last place finishes in the last few years have been really rough.