Kyle Dubas Discussion (continued) the 2021 edition

[Dale Gribble]

This year has got to be Dubas' (and Shanahan's for that matter) make or break year. Dubas has done some good things (trades I suppose), but his drafts look questionable to me, and getting bent over for the big 4 contracts could hurt the team for a long while.

We'll see I guess, but for me this has got to be Dubas' year to prove he's the right GM.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

This year has got to be Dubas' (and Shanahan's for that matter) make or break year. Dubas has done some good things (trades I suppose), but his drafts look questionable to me, and getting bent over for the big 4 contracts could hurt the team for a long while.

We'll see I guess, but for me this has got to be Dubas' year to prove he's the right GM.

I'm curious as to why you think his drafts are questionable? I would say a majority of posters on this board would agree that the draft picks from the last 3 years have been very good to great. A lot of them improving their draft stock huge.

 

[Dale Gribble]

I'm curious as to why you think his drafts are questionable? I would say a majority of posters on this board would agree that the draft picks from the last 3 years have been very good to great. A lot of them improving their draft stock huge.

Way too many similar players for my liking. Also, too many small skill players, and not enough balance.

Most fans like their GM's drafts initially, and yet when a GM is fired it's one of the things negatives those same fans will bring up.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Way too many similar players for my liking. Also, too many small skill players, and not enough balance.

Most fans like their GM's drafts initially, and yet when a GM is fired it's one of the things negatives those same fans will bring up.

I agree that we have a theme going drafting small skilled players and that you need some balance to your lineup. It would be nice to be developing some power forwards in the system but as we've seen this offseason, size, grit and role player can be had cheap in free agency or through trade.

Right now we have many of our draft picks having noteworthy seasons and are raising their draft stock like Robertson, Sandin, Abruzzese, Abramov, Niemela, Hirvonen, Miettinen, Ovchinnikov and Rindell. Many like Niemela have very projectable skills that are required for today's NHL like skating, puck skills and a fast processor. Even if we have too many of the same type of player, we can trade from a surplus for what we need. Also its good asset management to have guys that can replace roster players at a cheaper cost. For example if Amirov can reach his potential as a 60 pt 2 way forward, he could replace Nylander.

You'll get better value drafting based on skill and potential rather than size. Look at where Nylander and Ritchie are in their careers. We could trade Nylander for Ritchie plus a 1st and probably more.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I'm curious as to why you think his drafts are questionable? I would say a majority of posters on this board would agree that the draft picks from the last 3 years have been very good to great. A lot of them improving their draft stock huge.

I was thinking the same thing because I remember a lot of Leafs fans on here complaining about Mark Hunter's draft picks when it was up to him who they selected and more specifically his selections after the 1st round. So I'm not including obvious choices like Matthews and Marner.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Way too many similar players for my liking. Also, too many small skill players, and not enough balance.

Most fans like their GM's drafts initially, and yet when a GM is fired it's one of the things negatives those same fans will bring up.

So did you think Hunter was correct when he selected Egor Korshkov with the 31st pick of the 2nd round in 2016? At that time in the draft he was an off the board selection, plus he was undrafted in 2014 and 2015, when other obvious choices like Alex DeBrincat and Carter Hart were still available. Plus in that 2nd round Toronto had selected first and Hunter could have selected anyone he wanted.

 

[LeafsNation75]

All contributed in their playoff run.. and as a Leaf fan, you know first hand that Komorov brings intangible qualities to a team that aren’t captured in any statistic.

You don’t have to like the roster but if they’re successful with it, it’s pretty hard to argue, no?

The Islanders were well on the way to miss the playoffs last season and got lucky Covid happened since it got them into the Toronto bubble. At the time when the season got suspended they lost 7 games in a row with a record of 0-4-3 and were 5th in the Metropolitan Division.

 

[hotpaws]

The Islanders were well on the way to miss the playoffs last season and got lucky Covid happened since it got them into the Toronto bubble. At the time when the season got suspended they lost 7 games in a row with a record of 0-4-3 and were 5th in the Metropolitan Division.

they may have missed the playoffs and we may have missed as well since we were playing like ass going only 1 game above .500 the last 27 games

i'm just wondering however , do you believe every team is destined to miss the playoffs if they have a mini slump during the course of the season ?

 

[LeafsNation75]

they may have missed the playoffs and we may have missed as well since we were playing like ass going only 1 game above .500 the last 27 games

i'm just wondering however , do you believe every team is destined to miss the playoffs if they have a mini slump during the course of the season ?

There is a difference between a slump like Toronto had when they lost 6 games in a row in November 2019, compared to the Islanders losing 7 games in a row in March 2020 since that was closer to the playoffs.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Dubas could have had Nylander on team Blue, but instead it cost them.

 

[Pookie]

The Islanders were well on the way to miss the playoffs last season and got lucky Covid happened since it got them into the Toronto bubble. At the time when the season got suspended they lost 7 games in a row with a record of 0-4-3 and were 5th in the Metropolitan Division.

Luck or not, the Islanders made it to the conference final after making it to round 2 the year before.

we haven’t won a playoff series in what...16-17 years?

and they did with with no Tavares. And a roster that included Komarov and Martin. 2 players deemed unworthy of playing keep away here.

be humble.

 

[Funk21]

So did you think Hunter was correct when he selected Egor Korshkov with the 31st pick of the 2nd round in 2016? At that time in the draft he was an off the board selection, plus he was undrafted in 2014 and 2015, when other obvious choices like Alex DeBrincat and Carter Hart were still available. Plus in that 2nd round Toronto had selected first and Hunter could have selected anyone he wanted.

This 100%, such a dumb pick. Looks like he is at least having a decent go in the KHL this year although he has really slowed down recently but he is basically a few years away from UFA and done nothing when there were a ton of picks which could have been helping this team.

Most mock drafts didn’t even have him anywhere on their draft boards or if they did it was in The 6th or 7th round.

 

[Funk21]

Regarding Dubas I think he has two years. He had a few years to get rid of some of the terrible signings Lou made. Zaitsev and Marleau primarily. I am not dismissing the fact that I think he failed signing the big three to reasonable deals but he was forced to dump terrible contracts nobody wanted. He has had his ups and downs regarding trades and seems to be getting better regarding negotiations of contracts after the big three.

He has addressed the D, finally gotten a competent back up and from the looks of it added some leadership without over paying, His drafting with the exception of the size of these kids looks to be very good.

We potentially have a second wave of kids in:
Sandin
Robertson
Amirov
Liljegren
Abramov
Woll
Scott
Niemela

Ideally if he can get Hyman done at a reasonable rate and a few playoff rounds under his belt we should be in good shape. Obviously extending Rielly is also key. In a few years I see this as our lineup:

Amirov Matthews Marner
Robertson JT Nylander
Hyman Abramov Mikheyev
?????? Hallander Korskov

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Liljegren
Sandin Holl

Scott/Woll-big stretch to see either of these as our number one next year but hopefully one can rise to that title in a few
Campbell

 

[LeafsNation75]

Regarding Dubas I think he has two years. He had a few years to get rid of some of the terrible signings Lou made. Zaitsev and Marleau primarily. I am not dismissing the fact that I think he failed signing the big three to reasonable deals but he was forced to dump terrible contracts nobody wanted. He has had his ups and downs regarding trades and seems to be getting better regarding negotiations of contracts after the big three.

When it comes to Dubas negotiations with Matthews, Marner, and Nylander here is how I see it.

He should have done better to get Matthews to sign for 8 years, because his $11.634 million AAV is more reasonable at 8 years instead of 5 years.

Marner should not be making over $10.893, so something around $8 - $9 million would have been better.

Nylander I think was a fair contract for both sides.

 

[sparxx87]

The Islanders were well on the way to miss the playoffs last season and got lucky Covid happened since it got them into the Toronto bubble. At the time when the season got suspended they lost 7 games in a row with a record of 0-4-3 and were 5th in the Metropolitan Division.

Now you’re selling your imagination as fact.

Did you look at the Leafs record after the new coach honeymoon? Difference being they actually missed the playoffs while the Islanders made it. One team overachieving while the other underachieving... and you’re seriously here suggesting the guy who just overachieved ‘screwed up’ That’s precious.

Re; the ‘deals he screwed up’ - you go on to list several members of the core that just went to the conference finals. I told you GM’s are buying wins, not stats... and you proceed to list players that contribute to winning.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Now you’re selling your imagination as fact.

Are you talking about yourself?

Did you look at the Leafs record after the new coach honeymoon?

You mean that thing that doesn't exist? Did you look at the Leafs record when they weren't completely decimated by injury?

Difference being they actually missed the playoffs while the Islanders made it.

Both made the playoffs.

I told you GM’s are buying wins, not stats... and you proceed to list players that contribute to winning.

Paying those type of players that kind of money does not contribute to winning, especially not long-term.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

This year has got to be Dubas' (and Shanahan's for that matter) make or break year. Dubas has done some good things (trades I suppose), but his drafts look questionable to me, and getting bent over for the big 4 contracts could hurt the team for a long while.

We'll see I guess, but for me this has got to be Dubas' year to prove he's the right GM.

I think you have to wait until they have a full, normal season to make any sort of judgement.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I thought Dubas needed to trade Kapanen and Johnsson due the cap being flat and not going up like it was expected to before Covid.

However that didn't prevent him from signing Brodie, Thornton, Simmonds, Bogosian, Vesey, and Dell.

Yeah to me the roster looks better today then it did before last season (much better actually) so not missing Kapanen and Johnsson at all. Plus we got a 1st for Kapanen so not seeing a problem here at all.

So other than one 20 games stretch of the alleged "new coach high", the leafs have been slightly over a .500 team since December 2018. lol

To be fair, the team was decimated by injuries last season. Seems premature to judge this group today but I'm confident they will be well over .500 this season.

Toronto was 3rd in the Atlantic and in a playoff spot. The Islanders were 5th in the Metro and out of a playoff spot.

To be fair, Toronto was just barely in a playoff spot and had they lost the last game they played they would have been out. I think it's fair to say that they were right on the top of that bubble and making the playoffs was far from a foregone conclusion.

 

[Notsince67]

When it comes to Dubas negotiations with Matthews, Marner, and Nylander here is how I see it.

He should have done better to get Matthews to sign for 8 years, because his $11.634 million AAV is more reasonable at 8 years instead of 5 years.

Marner should not be making over $10.893, so something around $8 - $9 million would have been better.

Nylander I think was a fair contract for both sides.

6mm would be even better

 

[ToneDog]

I think you have to wait until they have a full, normal season to make any sort of judgement.

Agreed unless they seriously lay an egg this year and/or most of Kyle's offseason moves turn out to be mistakes.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yeah to me the roster looks better today then it did before last season (much better actually) so not missing Kapanen and Johnsson at all. Plus we got a 1st for Kapanen so not seeing a problem here at all.

Plus we don't have Cody Ceci anymore, although I always said he was a 1 year temporary solution and was still better than 5 more years of Nikita Zaitsev.

To be fair, Toronto was just barely in a playoff spot and had they lost the last game they played they would have been out. I think it's fair to say that they were right on the top of that bubble and making the playoffs was far from a foregone conclusion.

Yes that's true, however Toronto was in a more clear playoff spot since they were 3 points up on the Panthers for 3rd in the Atlantic compared to the Islanders.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yeah to me the roster looks better today then it did before last season (much better actually) so not missing Kapanen and Johnsson at all. Plus we got a 1st for Kapanen so not seeing a problem here at all.



To be fair, the team was decimated by injuries last season. Seems premature to judge this group today but I'm confident they will be well over .500 this season.



To be fair, Toronto was just barely in a playoff spot and had they lost the last game they played they would have been out. I think it's fair to say that they were right on the top of that bubble and making the playoffs was far from a foregone conclusion.

But they won the last game they played beating Tampa Bay.

 

[DueDiligence]

You mean that thing that doesn't exist? Did you look at the Leafs record when they weren't completely decimated by injury?

When were the Leafs "completely decimated" by injury?

 

[Gary Nylund]

But they won the last game they played beating Tampa Bay.

And?

When were the Leafs "completely decimated" by injury"?

Perhaps "completely decimated" is an overstatement but it's subjective term so I guess you could argue it either way. In any case, they had a lot of injuries which obviously contributed to their poor record.

 

[Leaf Fans]

And?



Perhaps "completely decimated" is an overstatement but it's subjective term so I guess you could argue it either way. In any case, they had a lot of injuries which obviously contributed to their poor record.

And...they were in a playoff spot.