Kyle Dubas appreciation / hot seat discussion ***Mod warning in OP***

[ToDavid]

canadian to united states exchange rate should nullify that advantage.

Exchange Rate Canadian Dollar to US Dollar (Currency Calculator) - X-Rates

While I don’t think the tax issue is nearly as big as many here do, that’s not really how exchange rates work. Prices are higher in Canada.

 

[The CyNick]

Not many GMs in the history of the league walked into a situation with players like Matthew's, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, and Andersen in place without having to do anything.

Not many GMs got to have an elite UFA want to sign with his team to fulfill a boyhood dream and for personal reasons.

Not many GMs have an ownership group willing to fork over huge dollars in signing bonus money to help sign players.

Not many GMs have ever been gifted a high profile GM role without ever building a championship team at any level.

Not many GMs got to win a Calder Cup without really adding any significant players to the roster.

Not many GMs would be able to mishandle 3 out of 3 franchise altering contracts and keep their job.

Not many GMs could get away with messing up a key positional decision that likely cost the team a trip to the finals and keep their job.

Not many GMs could mishandle assets left and right and keep their job.

I call that lucky.

 

[capfit9]

A nice icing on the cake looks as if though Borgman might have made the Blues

 

[Stephen]

Not many GMs in the history of the league walked into a situation with players like Matthew's, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, and Andersen in place without having to do anything.

Mostly disagree with this assessment. Most GM's of great teams are built on the foundations of someone's else's work.

When Yzerman was in Tampa Bay he inherited Stamkos, Hedman, Lecavalier and St. Louis.

When Sweeney started in Boston, he had worked as the AGM for years and inherited Chara, Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krejci and had assets to trade in Hamilton, Chara, etc.

 

[Drytoast]

While I don’t think the tax issue is nearly as big as many here do, that’s not really how exchange rates work. Prices are higher in Canada.

You are referring to cost of living, and that varies from city to city.

The cost of living in Guelph is not the same as that in Toronto.

The cost of various products is lower and some are higher depending on the trade agreement with the United State. Don't try to pass off that getting 1.30 for every 1 isn't a big deal.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Verdict is in and Dubas very definitively lost the Marner negotiation. It sucks, considering just how profile it is and there's no doubt that it's a direct result of the Matthews and Nylander contract situations. Some blame falls to the player for the amount of shenanagins that went on this summer, but the GM who signs the contracts is the one who bears the responsibility at the end of the day. I think nicer thoughts about the Matthews deal and feel totally fine about Nylander's actual deal, but they very clearly were not wins. With most of the other RFA deals looking like clear wins, this sucks.

But the verdict is also in on Sandin and he's an absolute player. Still deliberating on our defense as a whole, but it looks absolutely outstanding right now. Kapanen and Johnsson have great deals too and if one of them really breaks out this year it will make overpaying Marner a whole lot more palatable. All this is to say that there's more to the GM and his job than just signing the big guns. I wouldn't give Dubas an F on signing the big 3 because he did get them signed, but a big fat D would have me calling for his head if he hadn't had solid successes elsewhere. I think he's done quite will in the draft, I think he's built a very good defense, and he's done a solid job signing some secondary pieces to value deals.

I'm nervous as all hell if he's the guy negotiating with Muzzin and Barrie for next year, but I trust him completely to juggle a trade or two to get space for both. I trust him completely to lock up Dermott on a good deal. I trust him at the draft to pick players like Sandin and Robertson. The shine is definitely off and I don't think he's a boy wonder, but I still think he's been adding value to the organization despite the high profile setbacks with our stars.

The problem with Dubas is that the rest of the agents now have the book on him. He will overpay because he doesn't want to get into a long nasty fight. He will overpay just to avoid that type of conflict. He lost with Nylander when he made him 100% whole for missing 2 months of the season. He tried to be their friend instead of the GM. You cannot tell me that Barrie is not looking to get at least $8M now that the book is out on Dubas.

This is why I said from the beginning that you cannot overpay on a contract to an RFA. Other teams just said to their players that Toronto was not a realistic comparison and if they want to play...they have to be reasonable in their ask. Miko is $1.5M less than Marner for the same term. If Dubas had just waited Marner out..he would have not had to scrounge the couch for nickels and dimes to get our roster together. I really thought that the whole millennial GM thing was just old people complaining...turns out it has some truth to it.

You just cannot be their friend...they don't care or respect you. Now if he turns around and gives JT or Reilly the Captaincy...he is going to compound the issue even more with Matthews. You can't tell me that AM is not going to remember this in 5yrs when it's time to sign again. I know I wouldn't.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

The problem with Dubas is that the rest of the agents now have the book on him. He will overpay because he doesn't want to get into a long nasty fight. He will overpay just to avoid that type of conflict. He lost with Nylander when he made him 100% whole for missing 2 months of the season. He tried to be their friend instead of the GM. You cannot tell me that Barrie is not looking to get at least $8M now that the book is out on Dubas.

This is why I said from the beginning that you cannot overpay on a contract to an RFA. Other teams just said to their players that Toronto was not a realistic comparison and if they want to play...they have to be reasonable in their ask. Miko is $1.5M less than Marner for the same term. If Dubas had just waited Marner out..he would have not had to scrounge the couch for nickels and dimes to get our roster together. I really thought that the whole millennial GM thing was just old people complaining...turns out it has some truth to it.

You just cannot be their friend...they don't care or respect you. Now if he turns around and gives JT or Reilly the Captaincy...he is going to compound the issue even more with Matthews. You can't tell me that AM is not going to remember this in 5yrs when it's time to sign again. I know I wouldn't.

I see it as the other way around.

Star RFAs? Dubas sucks at.
Anyone else? No issue.

If Barrie wants more than 8M, he's out of here. Dubas doesn't have to sign him. If a UFA who loves Toronto doesn't want to stay in Toronto and win a cup in Toronto, then that's his loss. We'll go onto the next UFA. Dubas hasn't overpaid a single non-star RFA yet.

 

[al secord]

For all the "overpayments," when Hyman comes back, Kapanen falls to the third line. Then comes Dermott. There is no team more talented or more deep than this season's Leafs. The best Leaf team these 40 year old eyes has ever seen. Only our loud minority of idio...sorry, cynics, could have a problem with this.

 

[TheKule]

Not many GMs could get away with messing up a key positional decision that likely cost the team a trip to the finals and keep their job.

Of all the takes I disagree with, I feel this is the most egregious. The backup doesn't play in the playoffs. Home Ice doesn't change the terrible PK and awful deployment.

 

[SprDaVE]

For all the "overpayments," when Hyman comes back, Kapanen falls to the third line. Then comes Dermott. There is no team more talented or more deep than this season's Leafs. The best Leaf team these 40 year old eyes has ever seen. Only our loud minority of idio...sorry, cynics, could have a problem with this.

I'd rather overpay for a Star player than a role player.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

You are referring to cost of living, and that varies from city to city.

The cost of living in Guelph is not the same as that in Toronto.

The cost of various products is lower and some are higher depending on the trade agreement with the United State. Don't try to pass off that getting 1.30 for every 1 isn't a big deal.

What he's trying to say is that exchange affects the cost in CAD as well. $1 USD gets you just as far in the US as $1.30 CAD in Canada. Things cost more in CAD than they do in USD because it's a lower powered currency. Out side of quick exchange spikes that may go in favour or out of favour, getting paid CAD v.s. USD is not a big deal, they're just 2 completely different currencies. The CAD and USD have been at roughly the same exchange for half a decade outside of a short spike down and a short spike up.

It really is just cost of living, the exchange part is just psychological, but something someone who is treating it like a business can easily see past it.

 

[The CyNick]

People talk about "takes". It's funny because when you look at the final four last year it's full of teams that either had a platoon situation throughout the year or they had a backup who was able to take pressure off the starters to keep them fresh for the playoffs and a deep run. This isn't an opinion, it's fact.

Not only did we not have a capable backup to take pressure off Freddy, but we threw away one of the backups who was elite at that position.

You have to wonder if having played fewer games in the regular season allowed Rask to out duel Freddy in a tough seven game series. To me that doesn't seem like an egregious take.

 

[The Apologist]

You don't play an entire team of prospects/youngsters in the AHL. The AHL is not to be confused with a prospects league. AHL is a pro-league, not a league for solely youngsters.

I want to emphasize this:

You DON'T play an entire group of all 20-25 year old Ds in the AHL. You DON'T play a RHD-group of Lilijegren (19 years old), Durzi (20 years old), Hollowell (20 years old) in the AHL. That's ridiculous.

^ Aside from my above explaination, Dubas is known for his prospects development, so I'll trust him here.

Seems like common sense to me.

 

[Menzinger]

Mostly disagree with this assessment. Most GM's of great teams are built on the foundations of someone's else's work.

When Yzerman was in Tampa Bay he inherited Stamkos, Hedman, Lecavalier and St. Louis.

When Sweeney started in Boston, he had worked as the AGM for years and inherited Chara, Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron, Krejci and had assets to trade in Hamilton, Chara, etc.

Yep. Theres not a single GM in this league whose 100% responsible for building their team.

I mean Rielly is a Burke legacy,...

 

[Menzinger]

stop defending Dubas, your embarrassing yourself. Even his staunchest supporters have to concede he was too young/inexperienced to be GM, Shanahan has shown just how green he is too.

Having a nuanced understanding of decisions is better than blind hatred, you should try it sometime

 

[Menzinger]

They aren't that comparable. Connor gave up 3 full UFA years, Nylander gave up 1. That's a pretty big difference. The only way they are is if you view UFA and RFA years as equal, which no GM should or does (excpet maybe Dubas).

They had similar production prior to the contracts - and Connor got a higher aav. You're essentially splitting hairs at most over maybe 1-2 hundred thousand dollars here.

 

[93LEAFS]

They had similar production prior to the contracts - and Connor got a higher aav. You're essentially splitting hairs at most over maybe 1-2 hundred thousand dollars here.

No, I’m splitting hairs over the 2 extra UFA years bought for only .2m more. That’s a pretty damn big difference. He also got no singgning bonus’s or lockout protection that should drive aav down.

 

[WTFMAN99]

No, I’m splitting hairs over the 2 extra UFA years bought for only .2m more. That’s a pretty damn big difference. He also got no singgning bonus’s or lockout protection that should drive aav down.

Did Dubas do *some* good as GM? Yeah...

The bad things really stick out big time, you told me...and gotta hand it to you ,you were right lol. f***, it is frustrating having this guy as our GM.

 

[IPS]

No, I’m splitting hairs over the 2 extra UFA years bought for only .2m more. That’s a pretty damn big difference. He also got no singgning bonus’s or lockout protection that should drive aav down.

Connor's production gets a big helping hand via being the staple LW on the Jets 1st line and the 1st PP unit.

I haven't been happy with Dubas lately but let's keep things objective.

 

[IPS]

I'd rather overpay for a Star player than a role player.

I don't get it. What does this excuse do for you guys? I've been hearing this non-stop over the summer and it's just stupid. If I f*** up at work, do I just tell my boss "well I could have done this instead" and be absolved of it?

 

[Menzinger]

I don't get it. What does this excuse do for you guys? I've been hearing this non-stop over the summer and it's just stupid. If I **** up at work, do I just tell my boss "well I could have done this instead" and be absolved of it?

Because there is a huge difference overpaying a 90 point guy by a million dollars vs overpaying a depth winger like Marleau by about 4-5 million. Neither one of.those options is good, but the first at least nets you a star player who will perform very close to that caphit in terms of impact. The latter just leads to wasted capspace.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I don't get it. What does this excuse do for you guys? I've been hearing this non-stop over the summer and it's just stupid. If I **** up at work, do I just tell my boss "well I could have done this instead" and be absolved of it?

Because it doesn't really matter how Dubas handles one or two contracts. It matters how he handles the cap overall and how he builds a team. If he thinks he can build a winning group and overpay Marner, so be it. Yes it's a bad deal and should be criticized as such, but it's still just one deal and should not be the entire basis for how he's evaluated as a GM

 

[Dreakmur]

I'd rather overpay for a Star player than a role player.

If those are the only two options, sure, I agree.

 

[kb]

Did Dubas do *some* good as GM? Yeah...

The bad things really stick out big time, you told me...and gotta hand it to you ,you were right lol. ****, it is frustrating having this guy as our GM.

I'm frustrated by having a talented team with lots of depth too.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

I would guess that with some old school ball busting GM where we would be sitting at right now is:
-Nylander traded
-Matthews gone via ridiculous offersheet
-Marner playing in Switzerland right now
-marleau on the first line opening night.

There is no chance in hell any tough GM would have signed Marner to that 8 year 8.5 contract allegedly asked for in 2018; look at what Connor just got.

Way to go Dubas!
AAA rating