Kyle Dubas appreciation / hot seat discussion ***Mod warning in OP***

[Byron Bitz]

Why do we pay more than other teams do for comparable players?

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Rantanen deal makes Dubas AND Marner look real bad right now.

We overpaid our big three by a combined 4-5M IMO. That is the kind of money that buys you a final piece for a cup run...

Ok do the breakdown then that equals 5 mil. Nylander isn't overpaid at all, so 5 mil between Marner and Matthews then..? Rantanen isn't even paid fairly, he's actually a bit underpaid.

 

[saffronleaf]

I'm sorry, but this is BS.

Matthews is a great comparable for Marner. Marner had more points than Matthews the past couple seasons and was clearly just as valuable to our team's success.

lmfao marner is far worse than matthews it's not even close.

marner contract is the biggest overpay of the 3 by far.

incomparable greed. unconscionable, really.

 

[Menzinger]

I'm sorry, but this is BS.

Matthews is a great comparable for Marner. Marner had more points than Matthews the past couple seasons and was clearly just as valuable to our team's success.

No its not.

They play different positions, Matthew's is by far the better goal scorer which is universally viewed as more valuable across the league - Matthew's has never played with a player of Tavares' quality on his line- and the only reason Marner has more points is because of injury time. And Matthew's was on the 2nd PP unit for 2/3 of his seasons.

No BS about that.

 

[LaPlante94]

Soft negotiators and greedy players. Good combo for a team trying to build a dynasty...

 

[MyBudJT]

No its not.

They play different positions, Matthew's is by far the better goal scorer which is universally viewed as more valuable across the league - Matthew's has never played with a player of Tavares' quality on his line- and the only reason Marner has more points is because of injury time. And Matthew's was on the 2nd PP unit for 2/3 of his seasons.

No BS about that.

Complete BS, man.

Marner has helped us win just as many games (if not more) the past two seasons than Matthews did.

 

[TOGuy14]

Ok do the breakdown then that equals 5 mil. Nylander isn't overpaid at all, so 5 mil between Marner and Matthews then..? Rantanen isn't even overpaid fairly, he's actually a bit underpaid.

When you factor in term we definitely overpaid in AAV. I wouldn't mind Matthews at 11-11.25 if we secured an 8 year term but getting only 5 years when other stars like McDavid, Drai, Eichel had been taking 8 is bad.

 

[Menzinger]

Even if he bounces back, 7 mil for a 20 goal, 60 point complimentary winger is pretty bad, when you consider that 44G Laine and 40G 90P Point got less AAV....

Might want to take a look at the term of those deals

 

[saffronleaf]

No its not.

They play different positions, Matthew's is by far the better goal scorer which is universally viewed as more valuable across the league - Matthew's has never played with a player of Tavares' quality on his line- and the only reason Marner has more points is because of injury time. And Matthew's was on the 2nd PP unit for 2/3 of his seasons.

No BS about that.

exactly. is there even any doubt that matthews would have received offer sheets? no, there isn't.

cannot believe we gave marner a penny more than the 4 1sts threshold (10.55), which itself is a massive overpay.

 

[MyBudJT]

Might want to take a look at the term of those deals

Even when you consider term, its a far worse deal. Nylander is a 20 goal, 60 point player....

 

[Menzinger]

Complete BS, man.

Marner has helped us win just as many games (if not more) the past two seasons than Matthews did.

I get that hes probably your favorite player. But that's something very different from contract value....

Centers and goal scores make more than playmaking wingers. That's the norm across the league

 

[SnizzMitch]

This team better win the cup at least once in the next 3 years..

Dubas is really dumb

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Marner is only making $1.643 million more than Rantanen. It’s not all that awful but he definitely shouldn’t be making 10+. Out of the Big Three Marner is the most overpaid no question.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

When you factor in term we definitely overpaid in AAV. I wouldn't mind Matthews at 11-11.25 if we secured an 8 year term but getting only 5 years when other stars like McDavid, Drai, Eichel had been taking 8 is bad.

Matthews is like 1mil overpaid, given what Eichel makes, and given how he's one of the best goalscorers in the league - aka most important skill in the game. Marner is about 1.25 mil overpaid, so that's about 2.25mil, nowhere close to 5mil. Can even add another 500k, and it's still about 3mil overpaid total, not too big of a deal.

 

[93LEAFS]

So, we gave everyone insane bonuses and lockout protection, and then still had to pay more to keep them? Just great negotiating....

Marner and Matthews will likely live up to their deals, but the term for Matthews while making him the 2nd highest-paid player in the league is a joke, and Marner is making way more than his reasonable comparables for 6. We also need to find cheap depth, which comes from ELC's, but won't have a first for 2 consecutive years. I'm glad we kept both players, but he got taken to the cleaners on both of those deals, and Willy's isn't much better. Frontloading and lockout protection should be getting us discounts, not making us pay our players significantly more than recent comparables.

 

[Menzinger]

Even when you consider term, its a far worse deal. Nylander is a 20 goal, 60 point player....

What are you talking about?

You realize both Pojnt and Laine will be making several million dollars beyond 7 million after their bridges, right? That Nylander one included a ufa year?That those bridges are among the highest in league history? I don't want to be rude here, but you're talking nonsense on this

Edit: typo

 

[93LEAFS]

Matthews is like 1mil overpaid, given what Eichel makes, and given how he's one of the best goalscorers in the league - aka most important skill in the game. Marner is about 1.25 mil overpaid, so that's about 2.25mil, nowhere close to 5mil. Can even add another 500k, and it's still about 3mil overpaid total, not too big of a deal.

Eichel signed for 3 more years. Term can't be ignored. Matthews is also way more frontloaded, and has way more lockout protection than Eichel. Two things that should let us bring down the cap-hit.

 

[Kiwi]

Marner's deal sucked and we knew it when it was signed, so this doesn't surprise me if I'm being honest

I think it's gross mishandling of contract negotiations by our front office but its done so what can you do?

Young GM's make mistakes, this is an example of that but thats the direction Shanahan wanted to take so if this goes sideways its on him and the front office, make it work or face the consequences

 

[capfit9]

I wanna rip that Red Bull hat off Marner's head

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Eichel signed for 3 more years. Term can't be ignored. Matthews is also way more frontloaded, and has way more lockout protection than Eichel. Two things that should let us bring down the cap-hit.

He's quite a bit better than Eichel, and a lot better of a goalscorer. Like I said 1mil overpaid, should've been around 10.5-10.7.

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

Both Dubas and Shanahan need to get the axe after this shitshow of incompetence.
I cannot believe they screwed it up this bad. This organization truly is cursed.

 

[93LEAFS]

He's quite a bit better than Eichel, and a lot better of a goalscorer. Like I said 1mil overpaid, should've been around 10.5-10.7.

Given the structure it should have been closer to 10 for 5. Dubas didn't use the tools at hand to drive down cap-hit. Those things shouldn't just automatically be offered in the structure.

 

[Menzinger]

Rantanen's deal IS heavily front loaded too - like 34 million over his first 3 years.

 

[Jozay]

Matthews is overpaid by a solid 1 million, considering its for only 5 years

Marner is overpaid by a solid 1.5 million

Nylander is, I would say, overpaid by 300k

2.8 million total

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

I wanna rip that Red Bull hat off Marner's head

Atleast channel your anger towards where it needs to be.

Marner just took what was available to him, nothing more nothing less.

MLSE appointed that dumb Shanahan with no god damn experience running a hockey team who decided to put his eggs in a rookie GM's basket and we handed out the worst RFA contracts of the cap era.