News Article: Kovacevic: Time to trade Letang could be now

[jmelm]

I was pissed and making angry posts since word of his new contract, i wanted Karlsson money to be the max.

Then you are not being realistic. Erik Karlsson was an RFA (hence less leverage in negotiations) and coming off an ELC. Letang was a pending UFA and coming off a 2nd contract in which he was one of the top 3-5 defencemen in the league the 2 previous years.

And the amount of money/difference that you're talking about is pretty much exactly Craig Adams, or a little bit more than Sill/Connor/Ebbett and the like. In other words, easily replaceable 4th liners. And that may seem significant now, but when the cap goes up another $10-20 million over the next 2-5 years, it's going make *******-all difference.

This is not about whether we should/shouldn't trade him or about his performance. We'll see the outcome of those things in the near future. But crying over $750k/year on an 8 year deal is just....I don't know....somewhere between ridiculous and useless. It's completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things for a team that spends to the cap.

 

[JTG]

I wouldn't trade Letang during the season.

Trade him during the offseason. Get rid of the F3 system and let the Pens get used to it in preseason.

IMO an F3 is made more for duo's. Sure a better player can be used on lines as that third wheel but a trade for Letang has to be stud for stud.... not a star for spare parts.

#66...I'm not sure what you mean by when you say F3 system. All an F3 is the 3rd guy in on the play. In the most basic sense when someone is learning hockey, F1 is on the puck, F2 is supporting the puck, and F3 has a predetermined place to be, whether that is wide, or at the net, or sitting in the 1st row of the stands.

It's not a system, it's just what an easy way to recognize where you should be on offense. Anyone can be the F3

 

[JTG]

Then you are not being realistic. Erik Karlsson was an RFA (hence less leverage in negotiations) and coming off an ELC. Letang was a pending UFA and coming off a 2nd contract in which he was one of the top 3-5 defencemen in the league the 2 previous years.

And the amount of money/difference that you're talking about is pretty much exactly Craig Adams, or a little bit more than Sill/Connor/Ebbett and the like. In other words, easily replaceable 4th liners. And that may seem significant now, but when the cap goes up another $10-20 million over the next 2-5 years, it's going make *******-all difference.

This is not about whether we should/shouldn't trade him or about his performance. We'll see the outcome of those things in the near future. But crying over $750k/year on an 8 year deal is just....I don't know....somewhere between ridiculous and useless. It's completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things for a team that spends to the cap.

I do not buy the having leverage in negotiations bit when dealing with RFA's. If there was leverage, you wouldn't see guys getting the money they do right out of their ELC's. The only "leverage" that is present is that a team will be compensated if they don't sign, but as ROR showed...RFA's are getting much ballsier.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

One potential repercussion of dealing Letang that may not have been mentioned yet:

If Letang were dealt, there's no way Orpik isn't re-signed. Think about it.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

One potential repercussion of dealing Letang that may not have been mentioned yet:

If Letang were dealt, there's no way Orpik isn't re-signed. Think about it.

Shut up, RRP. You don't say things like that. The cap could still stop it, new winger and salaries increasing for other players.







I think that if they want to re-sign him nothing will stop it, if they're stupid enough to do it in any scenario that's that; it's happening no matter what.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Shut up, RRP. You don't say things like that. The cap could still stop it, new winger and salaries increasing for other players.







I think that if they want to re-sign him nothing will stop it, if they're stupid enough to do it in any scenario that's that; it's happening no matter what.

I don't think it's that cut-and-dried. The Pens could justify moving one of their top 4 to bolster the scoring wing situation, but there's no way Shero signs off on replacing 2 of his veteran top 4 blueliners in one year. No way.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

So Shero trades Letang because Niskanen has looked so good, then Niskanen says 'thanks for the opportunity Ray Ray, but I am not leaving a couple million a year on the table I got that moron to offer me for a five year deal. Hasta la vista, baby'

I could seriously see this play out. It would not be the first time that Shero has planned around signing someone and been left with his dick in his hand and nothing else.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I don't think it's that cut-and-dried. The Pens could justify moving one of their top 4 to bolster the scoring wing situation, but there's no way Shero signs off on replacing 2 of his veteran top 4 blueliners in one year. No way.

He could do it in 2 different seasons.

Yeah, IDK, I think the Orpik situation is set in stone and the Letang one probably is as well. They're both staying, Orpik will most likely get an awful new contract and I'll laugh at it all. I'll be legitimately shocked if he trades Letang (get me Wheeler, Shero) and really surprised if he trades Orpik.

Shero is a really cautious GM who hoards defensemen and he got embarrassed last season for going all in. He's probably not going to do anything risky. He also promised Letang or whatever, and Orpik has been around forever apparently leading veteran-ly or something.

I'm pretty damn pessimistic, though. The veteran thing is interesting to me. Letang is a veteran defenseman who needs a babysitter and who's consistently dumber than the rookies, Orpik is awful.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Serious question.

Outside of Malkin and Crosby, drafted before Ray Ray got here, are we Nashville? And if so, what has Nashville ever done to make that a model to follow?

 

[wgknestrick]

Serious question.

Outside of Malkin and Crosby, drafted before Ray Ray got here, are we Nashville? And if so, what has Nashville ever done to make that a model to follow?

They have at least drafted and developed an elite #1 D man and elite goaltender. Shero/Bylsma has done none of these to date.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Serious question.

Outside of Malkin and Crosby, drafted before Ray Ray got here, are we Nashville? And if so, what has Nashville ever done to make that a model to follow?

Have you seen our goalie?

Kind of. Yes with the defensemen stockpiling and drafting, he's going after that. No with Kunitz, Neal and Bennett, there's also Megna and Jokinen's here right now. Our forward situation isn't actually that horrible, it's largely who gets played making it worse and the injury curse. We really, really just need Crosby's Neal and Shero has tried to do that a few times, he's just failed every time. I think it's clear that he does try with the forward situation, he's just failed with the big one. No with the coach.

I can see the logic to a degree. Defense wins cups, the Pens really impressive defensemen and prospects, that's good. You can trade the defensemen for forwards or use saved cap space from playing cheap defensemen on forwards. There's been a snag with the forward half of it.

God Letang is a step down from Weber and Suter.


Fun fact: Crosby has more points than Nashville's two top scorers combined.

 

[MrBurghundy]

They have at least drafted and developed an elite #1 D man and elite goaltender. Shero/Bylsma has done none of these to date.

Unfortunately, they didn't draft any offense either. I do think we have one or two elite #1 D-men though in the future.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Absolutely are not Nashville cuz the Pens can be in on any FA they choose to go after whereas, when's the last time you heard Nashville in on any big FA?

It isn't completely essential the Pens draft wingers cuz they have the assets to land them plus the FA route mentioned above but it would be nice to draft 1 or 2 along the way though.

Signing aging 3rd line wingers and being satisfied with them playing on your star wing is another story though.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I do believe that 1 of Letang/Niskanen and 1 of Orpik/Scuderi/Martin are expendable.

You have Bort or Engelland to fill the 3rd pairing RD role and Maata or Despres filling the void left by the other move.

 

[jmelm]

One potential repercussion of dealing Letang that may not have been mentioned yet:

If Letang were dealt, there's no way Orpik isn't re-signed. Think about it.

Not true. If Letang is dealt, it means:

A) They're re-signing Niskanen for sure (and would probably lock that in before trading Kris)

B) That they feel VERY confident that at least one of Despres or Dumoulin will not only make the team, but be capable of making an impact next season.

C) It would not guarantee (because they can't talk contract with him yet), but would reinforce the notion an importance of them trying to extend Paul Martin beyond next season.

I say all of the above not only because I think it's logical and the truth, but also because Orpik and Letang do not play or fulfill anywhere near the same role. Nisky *might* be able to replace Letang, and Despres or Dumo could replace Orpik next season. Orpik is on the downswing any way you look at it, and I would not retain him under any circumstance or regardless of cost. Because even if Orpik were to take the league minimum salary, his performance won't be there and the opportunity cost for Despres/Dumoulin not playing would be too high.

 

[Captain Hook]

Yeah, I can't see Shero trading Letang without Niskanen being re-signed. Although I get RRP's point. Letang and Orpik are top 4 while Nisky has been a 5 or 6. Would Shero really let two top 4 guys go? Probably not unless Shero believes Niskanen can fill Letang's shoes in the top 4 the rest of this season and maybe beyond that. The Scuderi/Niskanen pairing was very good to start the season. We've seen Niskanen struggle in a top 4 role in past seasons though.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Not true. If Letang is dealt, it means:

A) They're re-signing Niskanen for sure (and would probably lock that in before trading Kris)

B) That they feel VERY confident that at least one of Despres or Dumoulin will not only make the team, but be capable of making an impact next season.

C) It would not guarantee (because they can't talk contract with him yet), but would reinforce the notion an importance of them trying to extend Paul Martin beyond next season.

I say all of the above not only because I think it's logical and the truth, but also because Orpik and Letang do not play or fulfill anywhere near the same role. Nisky *might* be able to replace Letang, and Despres or Dumo could replace Orpik next season. Orpik is on the downswing any way you look at it, and I would not retain him under any circumstance or regardless of cost. Because even if Orpik were to take the league minimum salary, his performance won't be there and the opportunity cost for Despres/Dumoulin not playing would be too high.

Whether or not Letang and Orpik's actual contributions could be replaced isn't the point though, jmelm. The point is that Shero isn't going to replace half his veteran top 4 in one off-season with less experienced guys. It's not in his DNA.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I do believe that 1 of Letang/Niskanen and 1 of Orpik/Scuderi/Martin are expendable.

You have Bort or Engelland to fill the 3rd pairing RD role and Maata or Despres filling the void left by the other move.

Also, these are the guys who are going to get you real return in a trade. The only D-prospects that can get full value in a swap imo are Maata and Pouliot.

For instance, Niskanen, right now could land you something more significant than Despres can.

 

[AZPenguins]

Absolutely are not Nashville cuz the Pens can be in on any FA they choose to go after whereas, when's the last time you heard Nashville in on any big FA?

It isn't completely essential the Pens draft wingers cuz they have the assets to land them plus the FA route mentioned above but it would be nice to draft 1 or 2 along the way though.

Signing aging 3rd line wingers and being satisfied with them playing on your star wing is another story though.

Without Crosby the Penguins are in KC at worst and at best they are hoping they are Nashville.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Without Crosby the Penguins are in KC at worst and at best they are hoping they are Nashville.

Of course.
And without Geno and Staal, i doubt there'd be a 3rd Cup.
Theres an element of timing and luck here. You can't just get 4 years of first round draft picks and be considered a contender.

And you look at the difference in draft classes from year to year. Last year with MacKinnon and Jones. This year, you have Ekblad, Reinhart, Sam Bennett. Thats a considerable drop imo.

 

[madinsomniac]

Maatta, Despres, Pouliot, Bortuzzo, Harrington, Dumoulin, Ruopp, Samuelsson, Dagostino, maybe Segalla now... that's a short list of guys expected to be at least seen in the NHL over the next couple years. tell me why we need more than one or two vet defensemen at all... there are at least 4 of those guys NHL ready right now. there are a lot more close.

Trade orps letang and nisky and Id be comfortable in the playoffs... heck we'd probably be better off. Nisky is hot and way overrated right now, probably as overrated as he was underrated last year... he is still going to get pushed around in the crease come playoff time. Orps has more worth in trade value than ice value right now. Letang is struggling to fit into the current defensive plan...

 

[Shady Machine]

One potential repercussion of dealing Letang that may not have been mentioned yet:

If Letang were dealt, there's no way Orpik isn't re-signed. Think about it.

I don't think the 2 situations are related at all. If Letang were dealt, Niskanen is re-signed, not Orpik. Sure, you could say "Niskanen will be re-signed anyway" in which case we should just lock in Chuck Kobasew for a another few years.

 

[Shady Machine]

Whether or not Letang and Orpik's actual contributions could be replaced isn't the point though, jmelm. The point is that Shero isn't going to replace half his veteran top 4 in one off-season with less experienced guys. It's not in his DNA.

So he's going to make an illogical move? I thought you had a higher opinion of Shero than that.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Unfortunately, they didn't draft any offense either. I do think we have one or two elite #1 D-men though in the future.

They did but got screwed with Radulov. They drafted a bunch of ok forwards in Spalling, Bourque, Wilson, Smith and they traded for Forsberg last year. Not the greatest but they have more depth then us at the forward position

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't think the 2 situations are related at all. If Letang were dealt, Niskanen is re-signed, not Orpik. Sure, you could say "Niskanen will be re-signed anyway" in which case we should just lock in Chuck Kobasew for a another few years.

I agree with this. Letang and Orpik are in no way related to one another's spots on this team. They don't play together, and they don't play the same role or position on this team.

Over the summer I was completely against trading Letang. I am now on board with a Letang trade for the right return, and its not because of Letang's poor play. Since summer Despres has looked great, Niskanen has played the best hockey of his career and Maatta came out of freaking nowhere.

Martin, Maatta, Despres and Niskanen can provide plenty of steady offense from the blueline. Letang has the gamebreaking offense that none of them do, but we really don't need gamebreaking offense anymore. When there are only two reliable offensive d-man on the team, you want them to bring that gamebreaking level offense. That's not us anymore.