News Article: Kovacevic: Time to trade Letang could be now

[Ogrezilla]

Whether or not Letang and Orpik's actual contributions could be replaced isn't the point though, jmelm. The point is that Shero isn't going to replace half his veteran top 4 in one off-season with less experienced guys. It's not in his DNA.

what if he trades Letang to add a similarly seasoned top 6 forward? Its not like Letang is some grizzled vet out there.

And more importantly, if there are two players on our defense I do not want our young guys learning from, its Letang and Orpik. Let Martin be the veteran leader for our defense.

 

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what if he trades Letang to add a similarly seasoned top 6 forward? Its not like Letang is some grizzled vet out there.

And more importantly, if there are two players on our defense I do not want our young guys learning from, its Letang and Orpik. Let Martin be the veteran leader for our defense.

Agreed. Letang's dealing with the same issues he's dealt with his entire career, and isn't a smart enough hockey player to be a mentor. Nothing about Letang translates through teaching. He's a guy who gets by on pure talent.

Orpik just seems like a petulant vet and has been regressing rapidly for years.

 

[IcedCapp]

Agreed. Letang's dealing with the same issues he's dealt with his entire career, and isn't a smart enough hockey player to be a mentor. Nothing about Letang translates through teaching. He's a guy who gets by on pure talent.

Orpik just seems like a petulant vet and has been regressing rapidly for years.

I'm going to laugh at this post when HCKL leads the Penguins to a Stanley Cup in 2033

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'm going to laugh at this post when HCKL leads the Penguins to a Stanley Cup in 2033

By all means.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So he's going to make an illogical move? I thought you had a higher opinion of Shero than that.

I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion.

I don't think the 2 situations are related at all. If Letang were dealt, Niskanen is re-signed, not Orpik. Sure, you could say "Niskanen will be re-signed anyway" in which case we should just lock in Chuck Kobasew for a another few years.

They're related because successful teams don't like a lot of turnover at the best of times, let alone Shero, let alone defensemen, let alone vet defensemen, let alone vet top 4 defensemen.

what if he trades Letang to add a similarly seasoned top 6 forward? Its not like Letang is some grizzled vet out there.

And more importantly, if there are two players on our defense I do not want our young guys learning from, its Letang and Orpik. Let Martin be the veteran leader for our defense.

I'm not sure why you're making points to justify it to me, haha. I'm saying that the organization isn't going to move 2 vet top 4 defensemen.

 

[Ogrezilla]

My points are why it shouldn't be a problem to move on from both. The fact that Shero and Disco probably disagree is just one of the many reasons I dislike Disco and am losing faith in Shero.

Scuderi - Niskanen
Maatta - Martin
Despres - Bortuzzo

that is a great defense to go into next year with.

 

[mpp9]

Yeah they wouldn't let Orpik walk if they traded Letang. But if we're getting a core top 6 winger signed longterm, I'll just view Orpik's play from here on out as a comedic gold. And hope he has a couple playoff runs left in him and/or he's given sheltered minutes as our young D develop.

 

[mpp9]

Watching as many Avs games as I can. It's painfully obvious that team needs a guy who can eat up minutes and help them in transition. Letang would still be protected playing behind EJ and Hejda. He'd get prime PP minutes and be in a vet role with their younger core group.

And O'Reilly is a stud.

 

[jmelm]

Whether or not Letang and Orpik's actual contributions could be replaced isn't the point though, jmelm. The point is that Shero isn't going to replace half his veteran top 4 in one off-season with less experienced guys. It's not in his DNA.

No, he's not. We'd be talking 2 players max: Letang (or Nisky) and Orpik. And there is no way we can re-sign all of Nisky + Orpik + Martin and have Scuderi at his price on the back end. I mean, we could afford it, but it would be stupid cap management, Orpik sucks, and it would preclude our soon-to-be-waiver-eligible top young Dmen from playing, and possibly prevent us signing a high end winger. Heck, I'd rather shave some $ off the back end and take my chances on a Gaborik or Vanek (if he his UFA) or someone else than pay all those old vets.

Martin and Letang (or if we traded him, Niskanen) are the guys I would want going forward long-term. Scuderi could be traded in 1-2 years when Harrington/Dumoulin are ready, and I see zero need to retain Orpik past this season. He's just not that good, and he's not getting any younger.

Oh, and what's that saying again: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? We need to change this team. We need change the balance, and bring in more young players and, in particular, talented wingers. We have a great budding defensive group with our young guys and those few top vets. So with that in hand, I say let the best defence be offence, and let's get an elite winger or two. We need to turn the page.

 

[ss53mech]

My points are why it shouldn't be a problem to move on from both. The fact that Shero and Disco probably disagree is just one of the many reasons I dislike Disco and am losing faith in Shero.

Scuderi - Niskanen
Maatta - Martin
Despres - Bortuzzo

that is a great defense to go into next year with.

Damn you Ogre! Posts like this containing common sense lineups have no place on the internet and make me sad. Why do you want to make me sad?

 

[DrDangles]

The time to trade Letang was last offseason, his value was at it's peak and now it is nowhere near what it once was.

 

[jmelm]

The time to trade Letang was last offseason, his value was at it's peak and now it is nowhere near what it once was.

Not true. His value is higher now that's locked up and not an impending UFA. And like I said: NHL scouts and GMs don't have the short memory and "what have you done for me lately" mentality that people on these boards do. They remember that Letang has been one of the top 3-5 Dmen in the league in the previous 2 years before this strange, injury-interrupted season.

 

[WayneSid9987]

The time to trade Letang was last offseason, his value was at it's peak and now it is nowhere near what it once was.

I disagree. His point production alone will net a high return. It's like Karlsson in a way. Karlsson isn't very good defensively either. You tack on the fact that other coaches see Letangs physical abilities and what they believe they can mold him into.

He's going to be percieved as the best player in almost every trade he's potentially involved in.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No, he's not. We'd be talking 2 players max: Letang (or Nisky) and Orpik. And there is no way we can re-sign all of Nisky + Orpik + Martin and have Scuderi at his price on the back end. I mean, we could afford it, but it would be stupid cap management, Orpik sucks, and it would preclude our soon-to-be-waiver-eligible top young Dmen from playing, and possibly prevent us signing a high end winger. Heck, I'd rather shave some $ off the back end and take my chances on a Gaborik or Vanek (if he his UFA) or someone else than pay all those old vets.

Martin and Letang (or if we traded him, Niskanen) are the guys I would want going forward long-term. Scuderi could be traded in 1-2 years when Harrington/Dumoulin are ready, and I see zero need to retain Orpik past this season. He's just not that good, and he's not getting any younger.

Oh, and what's that saying again: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? We need to change this team. We need change the balance, and bring in more young players and, in particular, talented wingers. We have a great budding defensive group with our young guys and those few top vets. So with that in hand, I say let the best defence be offence, and let's get an elite winger or two. We need to turn the page.

You're not going to find any opposition here to moving Orpik asap. All I'm saying is that Shero won't move part with both Letang and Orpik, so if people want Letang moved for an elite winger, be prepared for Orpik to be around for another few years.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You're not going to find any opposition here to moving Orpik asap. All I'm saying is that Shero won't move part with both Letang and Orpik, so if people want Letang moved for an elite winger, be prepared for Orpik to be around for another few years.

with Scuds, Martin and in that case Niskanen here, I don't know if I believe that. Keep in mind we're talking about a Shero who is willing to trade Letang. At that point, I think he's going for a big change.

 

[jmelm]

You're not going to find any opposition here to moving Orpik asap. All I'm saying is that Shero won't move part with both Letang and Orpik, so if people want Letang moved for an elite winger, be prepared for Orpik to be around for another few years.

with Scuds, Martin and in that case Niskanen here, I don't know if I believe that. Keep in mind we're talking about a Shero who is willing to trade Letang. At that point, I think he's going for a big change.

I agree with Ogrezilla, and I can't phrase it better than I said the first time. I just do not see the connection, necessity nor likelihood for having to re-sign Orpik:

Not true. If Letang is dealt, it means:

A) They're re-signing Niskanen for sure (and would probably lock that in before trading Kris)

B) That they feel VERY confident that at least one of Despres or Dumoulin will not only make the team, but be capable of making an impact next season.

C) It would not guarantee (because they can't talk contract with him yet), but would reinforce the notion an importance of them trying to extend Paul Martin beyond next season.

I say all of the above not only because I think it's logical and the truth, but also because Orpik and Letang do not play or fulfill anywhere near the same role. Nisky *might* be able to replace Letang, and Despres or Dumo could replace Orpik next season. Orpik is on the downswing any way you look at it, and I would not retain him under any circumstance or regardless of cost. Because even if Orpik were to take the league minimum salary, his performance won't be there and the opportunity cost for Despres/Dumoulin not playing would be too high.

 

[dePENSonFleury]

Does anyone else think Despres being a RFA at seasons end and needing a new contract (as well as not needing waivers) has something to do with him being in the AHL. Keep that number down.

 

[jmelm]

Does anyone else think Despres being a RFA at seasons end and needing a new contract (as well as not needing waivers) has something to do with him being in the AHL. Keep that number down.

No, I don't think Despres is being kept down for the express purpose of keeping his contract demands down. Some teams may do that, and I personally think it can be a smart strategy sometimes, but I don't think it's a concern with this player, and the Pens have shown that they are willing to keep guys up if they deserve to be here, even at the risk of the player playing well and perhaps deserving a higher price tag, or in Olli Maatta's case, having him hit UFA status a year sooner. In short, I don't believe the Pens assemble their line up based on contractual considerations.

I think Despres is in WBS for 2 very simple reasons: in the eyes of the Pens' staff, Despres has not proven to be in a category above the guys who are already on this roster; and as a result of that, he hasn't forced their hand in having to move/waive/demote anyone to make space for him.

This doesn't necessarily mean that they don't like him or that he'll be traded. We simply have no idea of that. It's simply that there has been media speculations or opinions put forward on the subject of him possibly being a guy that the Penguins want to move. This may very well be true, but I don't think the Pens would advertise that to the public because (A) it wouldn't help his trade value, and (B) it would only create a rift & discomfort with Despres and the organization if he were to stay. So I take any rumours as BS until we hear from more reliable sources (McKenize, LeBrun, Dreger, etc.) that Despres is being shopped.

I have only spoken about Despres being moved because I believe there is a VERY strong chance that either Despres or Dumo gets moved; but unlike with Dumo who is still has another year of not having to clear waivers, the Pens are going to have to make a decision soon. There just simply isn't room for all of our top D prospects + Maatta + Letang (to say nothing or Nisky, Martin, etc.) to all play here. It's a simple issue of numbers, as well as team needs and relative strengths vs. weaknesses.

 

[Ogrezilla]

No, I don't think Despres is being kept down for the express purpose of keeping his contract demands down. Some teams may do that, and I personally think it can be a smart strategy sometimes, but I don't think it's a concern with this player, and the Pens have shown that they are willing to keep guys up if they deserve to be here, even at the risk of the player playing well and perhaps deserving a higher price tag, or in Olli Maatta's case, having him hit UFA status a year sooner. In short, I don't believe the Pens assemble their line up based on contractual considerations.

I think Despres is in WBS for 2 very simple reasons: in the eyes of the Pens' staff, Despres has not proven to be in a category above the guys who are already on this roster; and as a result of that, he hasn't forced their hand in having to move/waive/demote anyone to make space for him.

This doesn't necessarily mean that they don't like him or that he'll be traded. We simply have no idea of that. It's simply that there has been media speculations or opinions put forward on the subject of him possibly being a guy that the Penguins want to move. This may very well be true, but I don't think the Pens would advertise that to the public because (A) it wouldn't help his trade value, and (B) it would only create a rift & discomfort with Despres and the organization if he were to stay. So I take any rumours as BS until we hear from more reliable sources (McKenize, LeBrun, Dreger, etc.) that Despres is being shopped.

I have only spoken about Despres being moved because I believe there is a VERY strong chance that either Despres or Dumo gets moved; but unlike with Dumo who is still has another year of not having to clear waivers, the Pens are going to have to make a decision soon. There just simply isn't room for all of our top D prospects + Maatta + Letang (to say nothing or Nisky, Martin, etc.) to all play here. It's a simple issue of numbers, as well as team needs and relative strengths vs. weaknesses.

I agree with this. I just very much disagree with the team's evaluation of Despres; particularly when compared to Orpik.

 

[jmelm]

I agree with this. I just very much disagree with the team's evaluation of Despres; particularly when compared to Orpik.

And I'm a stated believer of that philosophy. If it were up to me, I would trade Orpik yesterday and have one of our other guys fill that spot. I've proposed it many times. Given it hasn't happened yet, and that the Olympic break is upon us, I can only dream that the plan is to showcase Orpik at the Olympics and trade him at the deadline. I'm sure it won't happen, but I can still dream!

 

[Ogrezilla]

And I'm a stated believer of that philosophy. If it were up to me, I would trade Orpik yesterday and have one of our other guys fill that spot. I've proposed it many times. Given it hasn't happened yet, and that the Olympic break is upon us, I can only dream that the plan is to showcase Orpik at the Olympics and trade him at the deadline. I'm sure it won't happen, but I can still dream!

then the only difference between us is I want him traded last June

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

One potential repercussion of dealing Letang that may not have been mentioned yet:

If Letang were dealt, there's no way Orpik isn't re-signed. Think about it.

How does that work? Tang is a right handed OD who plays mostly PP. Orpik is a left handed DD who plays mostly PK.

Unless you meant Nisky your post doesn't make sense.

 

[SEALBound]

My points are why it shouldn't be a problem to move on from both. The fact that Shero and Disco probably disagree is just one of the many reasons I dislike Disco and am losing faith in Shero.

Scuderi - Niskanen
Maatta - Martin
Despres - Bortuzzo

that is a great defense to go into next year with.

Agreed but for this statement to have more meaning the return for Letang needs to be mentioned.

So:

Kunitz-Crosby-ROR
Winger-Malkin-Neal

Scuds-Nisky
Maatta-Martin
Despres-Bortz

is better than anything we can ice next year barring a major UFA signing.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Serious question.

Outside of Malkin and Crosby, drafted before Ray Ray got here, are we Nashville? And if so, what has Nashville ever done to make that a model to follow?

If you look at all the moves Shero's made, without looking at the roster at all or personnel, you'd prolly say to yourself "I bet that team has a stud goalie like Rinne and two stud Dmen like Suter and Weber".

I doubt you'd think, "that team has the two best centers in the world and a headcase in net,"

 

[Ogrezilla]

If you look at all the moves Shero's made, without looking at the roster at all or personnel, you'd prolly say to yourself "I bet that team has a stud goalie like Rinne and two stud Dmen like Suter and Weber".

I doubt you'd think, "that team has the two best centers in the world and a headcase in net,"

We have a weird mix. For the most part the team is built to not lose, and then hope Sid and Geno can turn that into wins. But if we properly used our defense, I think it would be pretty much an ideal group to play behind Sid and Geno. A group of Maatta, Despres, Niskanen, Martin, Bortuzzo and Scuderi would be a low cost and highly effective group both defensively and offensively. And the return we could get for Letang would go a long way towards solving our issues at wing.

Letang is the kind of d-man you need when you have a team built out of safe players who needs a gamebreaking offensive d-man. Scuds, Orpik and Engo are that kind of defense. So were Eaton and Murray last year. Even the cup year, we only had 2 offensive d-men in Gonchar and Letang, so we needed them to be really offensive. But with Martin, Niskanen, Despres and Maatta, we really wouldn't be that kind of defense. This team has grown past needing Letang. If we had Harrington and Dumoulin as our top d prospects instead of Maatta and Despres, I might think differently. But we have 4 really solid puck movers.