News Article: Kovacevic: Time to trade Letang could be now

[Shockmaster]

Regardless of what any of us wants or doesn't want... Signing a guy to a very long-term deal and then trading him before that deal even kicks in just doesn't seem like it's in the Penguins' or Ray Shero's MO. We can debate on whether or not it should be but we all know it just isn't. He's hardly played up to his potential the past few months either so they'd be selling pretty low.

The only way I see a deal happening is if it's an absolute steal AND if Letang verbally states he wants out. The former might happen, the latter won't.

I see no reason why Letang can't return to his Norris-candidate form or better so I'm fine with keeping him.

Fire Shero! Hire Holmgren!

In all seriousness, I'd rather see this coaching staff get canned before the Penguins start trading any of their players.

 

[jmelm]

Orpik's return is laughable compared to Letang's. Niskanen is a rental so his return isn't going to solve the issue, and he is playing extremely well for us. No reason to move him.

We could increase the return for one or both of these players if we were to grant the interested team permission to talk to their agents about an extension. This would dramatically increase their trade value.


Other option, you could have a trade with a conditional draft pick if the player is re-signed.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sorry Jules, had to abbreviate your post so mine isn't crazy long. I do agree with you about value, although Niskanen's UFA trade value is probably pretty close to Orpik's. But the big issue is this:We know that we have replacements for Letang (Nisky), and Orpik (Despres or Dumoulin), but we do not yet have a replacement for Sutter, yet.

In a year or two, perhaps Sundqvist will be able to take over from Sutter. But I would not want to trade Sutter without an adequate replacement. I know Sutter hasn't been lighting the world on fire (and this is a VERY good thing, because we'll be able to lock him up long term, which will increase his trade value, at very reasonable cap hit), but I also firmly believe he'll get better and better over the next few years. A signed Sutter who's better in a couple of years and when we have a replacement for him, that's when we should trade this player and not before.





A 1st rounder + one of Nisky/Despres/Orpik might get us Silfverberg, but might not be enough. He was on fire before his injury, but not so much since, so maybe we could get him, but not for certain. Same goes for the Coyles/Niederreiters and others of the league we've been discussing.

But like Jacob said, I would try to see what we could get by dangling those guys before Letang (unless Shero really decided he would move Letang despite giving him verbal assurance he wouldn't, and that Nisky gets re-signed).

Why would the Ducks trade the centerpiece of the Bobby Ryan trade? You realize they traded a legit 30 goal scorer almost straight up for this kid right?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We could increase the return for one or both of these players if we were to grant the interested team permission to talk to their agents about an extension. This would dramatically increase their trade value.


Other option, you could have a trade with a conditional draft pick if the player is re-signed.

There are ways to sweeten the pot, sure, but the return is still going to be a band-aid fix. We need to start solving problems, and not putting them off over and over again. It's time to fix things, not tweak things and hope for the best.

 

[Michael8771*]

Trading Letang will obviously bring the biggest return and IMO A more desired result. We have the mobility and skill on the blue line to endure a hit like Letang being elsewhere. Conversely, I don't think we can expect our handful of NHL caliber forwards to carry the load much more without adding some high end talent as well as some solid complementary players. This is the time to make such move, well by the TDL anyhow.

 

[Pancakes]

Regardless of what any of us wants or doesn't want... Signing a guy to a very long-term deal and then trading him before that deal even kicks in just doesn't seem like it's in the Penguins' or Ray Shero's MO. We can debate on whether or not it should be but we all know it just isn't. He's hardly played up to his potential the past few months either so they'd be selling pretty low.

The only way I see a deal happening is if it's an absolute steal AND if Letang verbally states he wants out. The former might happen, the latter won't.

I see no reason why Letang can't return to his Norris-candidate form or better so I'm fine with keeping him.

How far into his new deal was Whitney when Ray dealt him? Wasn't it in like year two maybe? Didn't Ray sign hmi to like a six yr deal then move him shortly into it?

 

[mpp9]

How far into his new deal was Whitney when Ray dealt him? Wasn't it in like year two maybe? Didn't Ray sign hmi to like a six yr deal then move him shortly into it?

Believe his new deal kicked in for the 07-08 season. He was dealt the season after.

If management doesn't see Letang here longterm, and they feel they can win a Cup this year without him, I really don't see the issue in dealing him this year. Especially while we we are free to move him anywhere we want.

I can understand thinking Ray wouldn't trade him so soon after signing him. But if we're getting a core piece up front, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

 

[66-30-33]

Believe his new deal kicked in for the 07-08 season. He was dealt the season after.

If management doesn't see Letang here longterm, and they feel they can win a Cup this year without him, I really don't see the issue in dealing him this year. Especially while we we are free to move him anywhere we want.

I can understand thinking Ray wouldn't trade him so soon after signing him. But if we're getting a core piece up front, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

Maybe the only way we were going to trade Letang for more was to re-sign him? Makes sense, Letang re-signed long term is worth a lot more then upcoming UFA Letang. Perhaps a deal with Avalanche is already done but waiting for the first day ROR can be traded here and the contract was what the Avalanche wanted or something? or they just wanted a long term Dman for upcoming RFA ROR and McGinn.

 

[KIRK]

Believe his new deal kicked in for the 07-08 season. He was dealt the season after.

If management doesn't see Letang here longterm, and they feel they can win a Cup this year without him, I really don't see the issue in dealing him this year. Especially while we we are free to move him anywhere we want.

I can understand thinking Ray wouldn't trade him so soon after signing him. But if we're getting a core piece up front, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

If it's because the 'right' deal isn't out there, then I can get it, although Shero's risk aversion makes me question the circumstances under which he really ever will pull the trigger.

If it's because he doesn't want to be a bad guy, then his priorities are way off.

If it's because he doesn't want Pittsburgh to be less attractive to potential free agents, well, when your best free agent signing with no existing or prior ties to the Pens up front since the Pens won the cup is Tanner Glass . . .

 

[DoktorZaius]

when your best free agent signing with no existing or prior ties to the Pens up front since the Pens won the cup is Tanner Glass . . .

Shouldn't Martin & Michalek get that honor?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Shouldn't Martin & Michalek get that honor?

I think he meant forwards.

M&M were his "biggest" signings but nothing too shocking from the GM of Nashville East.

 

[jmelm]

Why would the Ducks trade the centerpiece of the Bobby Ryan trade? You realize they traded a legit 30 goal scorer almost straight up for this kid right?

Yes, I realize it's a long shot. But (A) Anaheim could use some depth on defence versus what is an extremely deep forward group, (B) ANA did also receive a 1st round pick and Noesen (another 1st rounder) in that trade, so it wasn't only Silvferberg; (C) Jacob has cooled off of late and yet the team's winning hasn't slipped; and (D) while Jacob is obviously a very good player and the best player in that trade, he is still an "asset" as part of a package of assets that they got in return for Ryan. It could be, for example, that they planned on trading Ryan for the best package of futures/young players possible for salary reasons. They are not a team that operates at the cap ceiling, so who knows if there were other motives in involved.

(A similar example of just accepting the best asset available is when PHX got Rundblad for Turris. The last thing PHX needed was a Dman, but it was the best offer they had on the table for Turris so they took it. I don't necessarily believe that's the case with ANA and the Ryan deal, but it's possible.)

There are ways to sweeten the pot, sure, but the return is still going to be a band-aid fix. We need to start solving problems, and not putting them off over and over again. It's time to fix things, not tweak things and hope for the best.

Agreed. If we have the opportunity to get "that" player who can be Sid's Neal for the next 5-8+ years, we need to do it. I'm with Jacob, though, that I would try everything to do it at the cost of not moving Letang (which is why I say try to add a 1st rounder to Despres, or give permission for an extension for Orpik/Nisky + a 1st, etc.), but if that's still not enough, I would move Letang for the right offer.


But if we're going to trade Letang, it HAS TO be for a winger that we believe will be at least as good as Neal, or Hossa when we had him. It has to be a top-tier ppg winger. It has to be return that even Letang's camp or other people (players, scouts) in the NHL would agree we just couldn't say no to, which would mitigate any damage or negative optics about our commitment and promises we give to players (if it's indeed true that Shero promised Letang he would not move him this season).

 

[Pens17]

RRP - I will agree that Letang's talents are through the roof. I am one of his biggest fans until recent where his boneheaded (consistently for a long time) plays have cost us dearly. I do not want to trade him. I do not want new shiny things when we have something so damn good. But...

We are in the ONE situation where it's plausible. We drafted all these dmen and a lot of them look ready to go. We also have a good shelf life of vet defenders to play solid defense. It's amazing to say but the significance of losing Tangers really wouldn't be lost. I never thought I'd be saying that. Look at his recent terrible playoff runs where he becomes an idiot. We don't need that. The offensive output can be brought into play by guys like Nisky. We do not need 60 pt defenders. We have enough offense and can add the winger for Sid for a truly dynamic team. We need DEFENSE. Tangers could be a top defender but he just refuses to do so.

I'm just saying - FOR WHAT THIS TEAM NEEDS putting Letang on the table is now available to us if we get our equally dynamic player back for Sid. Tell me that isn't true...

Agreed 100%. Reading the preceding posts the rather directed Judge Judy quote leaps to the fore, "Beauty (talent) is fleeting but stupid is forever! Get what you can get while serious issues remain predominantly hidden.

 

[JTG]

Letang should have been traded last offseason before he even signed an extension, whether that decreases his value or not. Me wanting to trade him was in in no way an indictment of Letang, a knock on his talent, or a disbelief that he would reach a certain level of play. I have just always felt that what he brings to the table is more of a luxury than anything else. He's dynamic, he's fun to watch, but he has never drawn matchups, he is horrendous on the powerplay, he doesn't play 1st unit penalty kill, he has never really been a shut down defenseman, and he has been dinged up. I also have never thought he was a particularly smart hockey player, which I think despite his various physical gifts, should be a prerequisite for making over 7 million dollars a year as a defenseman. That's a "do-it-all" territory and Letang dazzles with flash and makes people forget he doesn't do it all, and never has. Paul Martin has been that guy for us, and will continue to be.

I think it's too late to trade him at this point, and if he ever does get traded, it will be when his new deal kicks in where he gains significantly more leverage because of his NMC. Love the guy, but how he has been playing for some time is not conducive to winning hockey games when they start to matter.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Letang should have been traded last offseason before he even signed an extension, whether that decreases his value or not. Me wanting to trade him was in in no way an indictment of Letang, a knock on his talent, or a disbelief that he would reach a certain level of play. I have just always felt that what he brings to the table is more of a luxury than anything else. He's dynamic, he's fun to watch, but he has never drawn matchups, he is horrendous on the powerplay, he doesn't play 1st unit penalty kill, he has never really been a shut down defenseman, and he has been dinged up. I also have never thought he was a particularly smart hockey player, which I think despite his various physical gifts, should be a prerequisite for making over 7 million dollars a year as a defenseman. That's a "do-it-all" territory and Letang dazzles with flash and makes people forget he doesn't do it all, and never has. Paul Martin has been that guy for us, and will continue to be.

I think it's too late to trade him at this point, and if he ever does get traded, it will be when his new deal kicks in where he gains significantly more leverage because of his NMC. Love the guy, but how he has been playing for some time is not conducive to winning hockey games when they start to matter.

I think the Pens play a less risky game without him, the kind of game they need to play to win in the playoffs. I agree, he feels more like a luxury than a necessity, I feel as though Despres would be more valuable in the top 4 than he would be right now. He's the best trading chip the team has to acquire a 1st line winger and finally put an end to "Sid needs a proper right winger!" talk.

 

[Malkin112*]

Kovacevic vs Madden vs Yohe

http://bcove.me/ixe5d0tj

 

[jmelm]

I think the Pens play a less risky game without him, the kind of game they need to play to win in the playoffs. I agree, he feels more like a luxury than a necessity, I feel as though Despres would be more valuable in the top 4 than he would be right now. He's the best trading chip the team has to acquire a 1st line winger and finally put an end to "Sid needs a proper right winger!" talk.

Sure, that may very well be the case. But until such time as we actually decide to trade him (if it happens at all), and once Kris regains the level of play he's shown us over the last few years, we need to view and incorporate his strengths and attributes into the game plan for our team. As long as he remains here, he will be an important and valuable member.

With that said, and Letang's individual strengths & weakness aside, I do not believe that having an elite point-producing Dman is a luxury. If you have a guy who's a liability (i.e. M.A. Bergeron), then he's simply not a good player overall and you wouldn't want him on your team. But virtually every team that is considered a great team, or every team that has won a Stanley Cup in the last few decades, has had at least one Dman on the back end who can be a big contributor offensively.

As I've said, I would not close the door on the opportunity to acquire THE right player in a deal for Kris, but this team absolutely does need an elite offensive Dman. Nisky and Martin have been nice contributors, and Olli and Pouliot have great potential, but whether it's been a Goligoski, Letang or Gonchar on this team, or a Keith on CHI, Chara on BOS, Doughty on LA, Pronger & Niedermayer on ANA, Lidstrom & Kronwall, etc., you almost certainly need this element on your team.

I do not view this as a luxury, I view this as a necessity. You can debate whether Letang is the right guy or not, but we need that type of player; and if we traded Kris tomorrow, we would be lamenting for the next year or 3 of how we don't have an elite offensive Dman, unlike all of the other top teams in the NHL, now, in the past, and in the future.

So if we were going to trade Kris, we had damn well better make sure that the forward we were going to get in return was going to provide THAT MUCH offense, so as to off-set the fact that we wouldn't really have that legit offensive Dman. Now, that is possible, but we're talking about players in the range of an Evander Kane, Jordan Eberle or Taylor Hall, Jamie Benn, etc., and nothing less. I'm not saying we could get any one of those players, but I'm saying we would have to get a guy who has minimum 30+ goal & 75+ point potential -- and given Letang's age, upside, popularity and the age of our core & window of contention, that forward would have to be someone who could contribute at that level for the next 8-10+ years.

So finding the RIGHT trade for Letang may be possible now and is probably even more possible in the summer, but if we ever make that move, we better make sure we hit a home run. And that means being as patient as you have to be until you find that particular player.


Edit: And I don't agree with JTG or others who may think the ideal window to trade Letang has passed. I unequivocally believe that his value is higher now that he is locked up for several years, and he can only submit a list of 12 teams he wouldn't accept a trade to, which gives us 17 other teams to negotiate with. And even still, we've seen in the past players waive to go to those teams if asked or convinced. I'm not worried about this issue at all or finding enough teams to create a bidding war if we truly decided to shop Letang. But like Jacob believes, I think we would try to exhaust several other options before resorting to this one, for all the reasons mentioned in this post.

 

[stardog]

Y'all know how I feel about this. Just wanted to say that I made a comment about this on their website about a whole lot of things that most of us feel (regarding our coaching situation etc.) and boy howdy....did it stir up a hornets nest.
It amazes me how ignorant and blind people can be when it comes to Bylsma. Sometimes I think that the only intelligent hockey talk is from some of the posters on this forum because most of the comments I received back were of the, "You're an idiot if you think Bylsma is a problem" variety. It was worth a good laugh.

 

[blueliner18]

Y'all know how I feel about this. Just wanted to say that I made a comment about this on their website about a whole lot of things that most of us feel (regarding our coaching situation etc.) and boy howdy....did it stir up a hornets nest.
It amazes me how ignorant and blind people can be when it comes to Bylsma. Sometimes I think that the only intelligent hockey talk is from some of the posters on this forum because most of the comments I received back were of the, "You're an idiot if you think Bylsma is a problem" variety. It was worth a good laugh.

Just wait, when Bylsma's "game" fails around playoff time again because of the lack of respect for a defensive game, he'll be packing his bags. I like the guy, but you can't be so proud that you refuse to change for the better of the team. On the other hand, all the yinzers might make Fleury the scapegoat again when he is not stopping 45 shots per game. It will have nothing to do with the fact that the defense became more passive than wet rice paper. Should Fleury have made a couple more of the "easier" saves, sure...but even now in the regular season the Pens can't solve the Islanders. When you give up 35+ shots to one of the worst teams in the conference consistantly don't blame your goaltender, blame your system.

 

[Tender Rip]

Kovacevic vs Madden vs Yohe

http://bcove.me/ixe5d0tj

Madden is a ****ing moron. End off.

 

[blueliner18]

Should he, will he...

Should Letang be traded, yes. Will he be traded, No. The organization loves this guy. Even when he only plays in about half of the games per season, and is mentally absent for about half of those. This organization loves him. Can you see potential for him to be a top 5 d-man in the league, sure. How long do we wait until he fills those shoes? It is not as if he was a rookie last season or he only has 3 NHL seasons under his belt. However, it seems that there is some transformation process that the organization is waiting for. My question is how long do they wait? Pretty soon Letang will be a middle of the pack defenseman making top 5 money. I don't care how gifted or endless his talents are, if he does not possess the knowledge or decision making skills that the game demands his physical attributes are worthless. The Pens may fall into another Michalek problem ($5M a year for mediocrity), luckily Martin regained his form. Only Letang's cap hit will be higher. Am I rooting for the kid, yeah he's a Penguin. I just am not very optimistic when all of his problems are mental and not physical.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Kovacevic vs Madden vs Yohe

http://bcove.me/ixe5d0tj

vs.

vs.

 

[iFishyHD]

If were are going to trade Letang why would we have signed Scuds? Why would we bring somebody in to cover Letangs defensive meltdowns, to trade Letang away?

 

[chethejet]

It doesn't matter what moves Shero makes as last year demonstrated. Bylsma is a dope and until Mario sees that, it will do more harm than good for the Pens to do anything. Shero if he is joined at the hip with Bylsma should find both in deep doo doo when they are eliminated in the playoffs. What I hope is Mario tells Shero, no young talent or high draft picks can be used for trades. No rentals! Hopefully Mario knows the adage, fool me once...

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Maybe Scuderi wasn't purely for Letang? Maybe we just needed another reliable defensive d-man? Shero's said several times that letting Scuderi go after the Cup was a mistake to begin with.