News Article: Kovacevic: Time to trade Letang could be now

[MrBurghundy]

Signing Scuds was fine. The mistake was not immediately moving Orpik as soon as the ink dried.

Well thats another thing. We both know that was never happening though, so that point is moot.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Signing Scuds was fine. The mistake was not immediately moving Orpik as soon as the ink dried.

1000% correct IMO. When I heard we'd signed Scuds, I immediately thought Orpik was gone.

 

[MrBurghundy]

When Madden what shouting about the Gogo and Whit trades as "proof" Des can be moves for a 1st line RW totally reminded me of some posters here who love to bring them up to defend Shero's drafting or pimp him as the best trading GM in the league.

The other guys were like "JN doesn't have a job" and "Des is in the A for a reason." And Madden was like, "there's dupes all over the league." Just because one GM made a horrible mistake and gave us Neal doesn't mean Shero can convince other GMs to do the same for Des.

Well Gogo and Whitney were established NHL defenseman. Something Despres has yet to become. Another example of why Madden is a dumbass.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

For Des? No way.

All it takes is one GM liking him and having an expendable forward. Not saying we wouldnt have to add another minor piece but you get the point.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Ladd, Stewart and Perron aren't guys who are on pace for 40g and 83pts.

I think people sort of sell Kunitz short. He's not flashy, but he gets **** done. The Kunitz deal was damn near as much of a steal as the Neal deal, the only difference is Niskanen puts it over the top.

Yeah but Kunitz wasnt that at the time of the trade either. He was a 50-60 pt two way winger that flourished here. No reason to think we cannot find an equivalent for Despres. Despres has played well enough in both the AHL and NHL to mitigate risk somewhat and has tons of potential as we all know. All it take is 1 GM who really likes him.

 

[Shady Machine]

All it takes is one GM liking him and having an expendable forward. Not saying we wouldnt have to add another minor piece but you get the point.

You're way off IMO. Despres + minor piece does not net you a Ladd (28 year old captain, 50-60 point winger with intangibles), Stewart (26 year old power forward with 30-40 goal potential), or Perron (leads his team with 22 goals). Even if a GM loves Despres, he knows that deal isn't close to fair value since Despres isn't proven at the NHL level. The fanbase, media, etc would be furious. It will take Despres + Bennett or 1st to do that deal IMO.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You're way off IMO. Despres + minor piece does not net you a Ladd (28 year old captain, 50-60 point winger with intangibles), Stewart (26 year old power forward with 30-40 goal potential), or Perron (leads his team with 22 goals). Even if a GM loves Despres, he knows that deal isn't close to fair value since Despres isn't proven at the NHL level. The fanbase, media, etc would be furious. It will take Despres + Bennett or 1st to do that deal IMO.

Stewart's value is imo considerably lower than the other two guys there. Though St Louis doesn't need Despres.

 

[mpp9]

You're way off IMO. Despres + minor piece does not net you a Ladd (28 year old captain, 50-60 point winger with intangibles), Stewart (26 year old power forward with 30-40 goal potential), or Perron (leads his team with 22 goals). Even if a GM loves Despres, he knows that deal isn't close to fair value since Despres isn't proven at the NHL level. The fanbase, media, etc would be furious. It will take Despres + Bennett or 1st to do that deal IMO.

Well Perron was traded for MPS+2nd in the offseason. But he's having too good of a season to be moved for a similar package. And Stewart's value can't be much more than Despres at this point in time.

But guys like Ladd will fetch quite a bit.

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah but Kunitz wasnt that at the time of the trade either. He was a 50-60 pt two way winger that flourished here. No reason to think we cannot find an equivalent for Despres. Despres has played well enough in both the AHL and NHL to mitigate risk somewhat and has tons of potential as we all know. All it take is 1 GM who really likes him.

Whitney at the time >>> Despres. Whitney was 26 and had played 253 NHL games and scored 150 points (49 point pace). He was a proven young offensive defenseman. Despres may have a lot of potential, but GM's don't trade proven players for potential unless it's a package deal or can't miss prospect.

 

[Shady Machine]

Stewart's value is imo considerably lower than the other two guys there. Though St Louis doesn't need Despres.

Yeah I would rank Ladd ahead of both Stewart and Perron by a considerable margin. That still doesn't change the fact that, 1.) St Louis doesn't really need Despres and 2.) Perron is now the Oilers leading goal scorer so they wouldn't move him for Despres.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah I would rank Ladd ahead of both Stewart and Perron by a considerable margin. That still doesn't change the fact that, 1.) St Louis doesn't really need Despres and 2.) Perron is now the Oilers leading goal scorer so they wouldn't move him for Despres.

Agreed. It just seems like an odd grouping of players.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

You're way off IMO. Despres + minor piece does not net you a Ladd (28 year old captain, 50-60 point winger with intangibles), Stewart (26 year old power forward with 30-40 goal potential), or Perron (leads his team with 22 goals). Even if a GM loves Despres, he knows that deal isn't close to fair value since Despres isn't proven at the NHL level. The fanbase, media, etc would be furious. It will take Despres + Bennett or 1st to do that deal IMO.

They are examples for the type of player that could be returned. And though not proven if they liked what they saw from him at the pro level they will not concern much about where he is right now. There is defenetly 1 GM (probably more) out there thats sees an NHL ready top 4 defenseman, now the question is do tehy have the player we need.

 

[Shady Machine]

They are examples for the type of player that could be returned. And though not proven if they liked what they saw from him at the pro level they will not concern much about where he is right now. There is defenetly 1 GM (probably more) out there thats sees an NHL ready top 4 defenseman, now the question is do tehy have the player we need.

They are examples of players that would not be traded for Simon Despres.

You're wrong, I called you out on it, you ignore my points and keep saying the same thing. Here's my view: I love Simon Despres, I think he's NHL dman that can play in my top 4 right now but I'm not trading a current top 6 winger for him. Kyle Palmieri is an example of a guy we could get for Despres. Not the ones you listed.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

They are examples for the type of player that could be returned. And though not proven if they liked what they saw from him at the pro level they will not concern much about where he is right now. There is defenetly 1 GM (probably more) out there thats sees an NHL ready top 4 defenseman, now the question is do tehy have the player we need.

Even if you find that GM, they will be bargain hunting with Despres, as GM's are risk averse these days. There's just not a lot of CP firing from the hip with trades.

Our handling of Despres has reduced his current value, and I don't think he's going to return a controlled, long term solution at the wing as the centerpiece of a deal unless it's a young wing who can grow into the role.

A more realistic return might be more like a deal centered around Despres for Etem, who has also bounced back and forth this year and is currently in the minors. Anaheim may not feel like they have a need for Despres though with the emergence of some of their young guys.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

They are examples of players that would not be traded for Simon Despres.

You're wrong, I called you out on it, you ignore my points and keep saying the same thing. Here's my view: I love Simon Despres, I think he's NHL dman that can play in my top 4 right now but I'm not trading a current top 6 winger for him. Kyle Palmieri is an example of a guy we could get for Despres. Not the ones you listed.

Palmieri is a good example, Stewart is def one if STL need defenseman (unfortunetly they do not), Gagner in Edm. would probably be had etc. Im not taking team needs etc into consideration just highlighting types of player they could get if the correct situation occured.

Everyone is acting like Whitney and Gogo had tons of value when they were dealt. Whitney was proven offensive contributer but was never dominant and was ok defensively and also had foot issues. Gogo was proven to be a bottom pairing guy that could earn you 40 pts if given PP time but was a defensive liability at EV. Despres has value to the right GM just matter of if that GM and us match up. He has played almost a seasons worth of NHL games and has looked pretty d*mn good doing it. Defenseman are the most overvalued position in the NHL and wingers (unless elite) are the most undervalued. Just takes the correct match. It might be there it might not.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

They are examples of players that would not be traded for Simon Despres.

You're wrong, I called you out on it, you ignore my points and keep saying the same thing. Here's my view: I love Simon Despres, I think he's NHL dman that can play in my top 4 right now but I'm not trading a current top 6 winger for him. Kyle Palmieri is an example of a guy we could get for Despres. Not the ones you listed.

I like Palmieri.

The issue with Despres is that the org never increased his value, very well may have hurt it. What he could probably do doesn't get anything guaranteed back. That's all there really is to it. Sure, there might be a sucker somewhere, but if Shero is going to wait for that...

They've really created this situation where Letang is the only viable trade piece to solve the forward problem in a big way, he has proven value and he's in a position where there's organizational depth. Trading him doesn't instantly create another hole.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I like Palmieri.

The issue with Despres is that the org never increased his value, very well may have hurt it. What he could probably do doesn't get anything guaranteed back. That's all there really is to it. Sure, there might be a sucker somewhere, but if Shero is going to wait for that...

They've really created this situation where Letang is the only viable trade piece to solve the forward problem in a big way, he has proven value and he's in a position where there's organizational depth. Trading him doesn't instantly create another hole.

I dont think Despres value has been hurt at all, if another teams scouts like him they like him they probably do not care if waivers is keeping him in the AHL they are not knee jerk like fans are. Like most anything his value could likely be represented like a bell curve where 20 GMs like him as his actual value 4 GM overrate him 1 really overrrates him and 4 GM underrate him with 1 GM thinking hes hot garbage, they key is if one of the 5 that overrate him match for a trade.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I dont think Despres value has been hurt at all, if another teams scouts like him they like him they probably do not care if waivers is keeping him in the AHL they are not knee jerk like fans are. Like most anything his value could likely be represented like a bell curve where 20 GMs like him as his actual value 4 GM overrate him 1 really overrrates him and 4 GM underrate him with 1 GM thinking hes hot garbage, they key is if one of the 5 that overrate him match for a trade.

Eh. He had his minutes cut in game a lot and typically kept low, he's been in and out of the AHL, wasn't trusted in the playoffs and had his roster spot stolen by Maatta this season. That could have hurt it, and arguably not increasing his value has hurt it in a way at this point. Letang is the only thing with great value that we can trade (thanks, horrible forward depth!), he's proven, has upside, has a long term contract, he's still young and he's from an area of great depth.

The issue is waiting on someone to overrate him, have something we need (it's not defense, Shero), what they have fitting on this team and them not getting shutdown by people above/around them, and Shero being in a position to do it. Cap space becomes an issue if it happens this season. You're also talking about something that might just not exist. Like I said, it could happen, but if Shero is waiting for it then good luck.

 

[KIRK]

Stewart's value is imo considerably lower than the other two guys there. Though St Louis doesn't need Despres.

I'm not sure how much STL really NEEDS. Despres would help longer term. Team's top five is set, but they wouldn't suffer for organizational depth on defense that rivals what they've got on offense.

A few weeks ago, there was chat in the main forum about Sutter and Despres for Stewart and something (someone suggested their 2nd round pick William Carrier).

From their perspective, Despres, even if he adds nothing this year, would help a lot starting next year. And, Sutter would fill 3C well.

Not saying Y or N to the proposal, but the idea that Despres wouldn't be of interest to STL may not be true.

 

[KIRK]

Well Perron was traded for MPS+2nd in the offseason. But he's having too good of a season to be moved for a similar package. And Stewart's value can't be much more than Despres at this point in time.

But guys like Ladd will fetch quite a bit.

The Perron trade wasn't a pure hockey trade. STL needed to cut salary. You can't use that as the basis to suggest a hockey trade.

EDIT: Saying Despres has comparable value to Whitney or Gogo is just comical. IMO, the chain is Gogo > Whitney > Despres. I put Gogo first because he was younger at the time, still had controlled years, and was a much lower salary, which meant more teams would be in a position to inquire. Whitney 2nd for reasons mentioned. As for Despres, he just doesn't have the experience to justify even a 1 for 1 for a guy like Kunitz unless he were an impending UFA.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

All it takes is one GM liking him and having an expendable forward. Not saying we wouldnt have to add another minor piece but you get the point.

Your point is, "maybe we can get lucky and another GM will make a huge mistake." That's not something you should expect to happen.

 

[mpp9]

The Perron trade wasn't a pure hockey trade. STL needed to cut salary. You can't use that as the basis to suggest a hockey trade.

EDIT: Saying Despres has comparable value to Whitney or Gogo is just comical. IMO, the chain is Gogo > Whitney > Despres. I put Gogo first because he was younger at the time, still had controlled years, and was a much lower salary, which meant more teams would be in a position to inquire. Whitney 2nd for reasons mentioned. As for Despres, he just doesn't have the experience to justify even a 1 for 1 for a guy like Kunitz unless he were an impending UFA.

I don't disagree that it takes a special type of stupid to think Despres is on the same level in terms of value as Gogo and Whitney were when they were moved.

And we're likely better off keeping him anyway. Hope we re-sign Nisky, thus forcing the departure of one Brooks Orpik and plug Despres in his place.

I'd move Orpik. Maybe Letang if the right deal is there.

 

[KIRK]

Your point is, "maybe we can get lucky and another GM will make a huge mistake." That's not something you should expect to happen.

Then again, that whole 'maybe we can get lucky' seems to encompass a bit of Shero's approach to things . . . to making (risk free) deals and to trying to win cups by neutralizing, rather than exploiting, Sid and Geno. Hey, it worked . . . with Nieuwendyk and the Gogo deal and in 2009 avoiding good defensive teams in the East and then getting Detroit with Datsyuk hurt, so clearly it's bound to work again.

I don't disagree that it takes a special type of stupid to think Despres is on the same level in terms of value as Gogo and Whitney were when they were moved.

And we're likely better off keeping him anyway. Hope we re-sign Nisky, thus forcing the departure of one Brooks Orpik and plug Despres in his place.

I'd move Orpik. Maybe Letang if the right deal is there.

Couldn't agree more. I'd even take a less than perfect deal for Letang, provided it's right for the Pens top nine and Sid specifically.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'm not sure how much STL really NEEDS. Despres would help longer term. Team's top five is set, but they wouldn't suffer for organizational depth on defense that rivals what they've got on offense.

A few weeks ago, there was chat in the main forum about Sutter and Despres for Stewart and something (someone suggested their 2nd round pick William Carrier).

From their perspective, Despres, even if he adds nothing this year, would help a lot starting next year. And, Sutter would fill 3C well.

Not saying Y or N to the proposal, but the idea that Despres wouldn't be of interest to STL may not be true.

I wouldn't even entertain the discussion of Sutter and Despres for Stewart.

 

[Michael8771*]

I wouldn't even entertain the discussion of Sutter and Despres for Stewart.

I simply don't see STL as a good trading partner anyhow.