News Article: Kovacevic: Time to trade Letang could be now

[WheresRamziAbid]

i know. does Letang get us Eberle or do we have to add?

add Orpik!

I would love Eberle but no way in hell im trading Letang straight up for him let alone add. Letang is a top 10 defender in this league and that is woth more than a winger especially when you have an options like Bennett and Dupuis when healthy. I rather trade less for 3rd liners than trade Letang unless completely overwhelmed.

Again i would love Eberle, and would gladly give guys like Despres, Bennett, Sutter etc but that probably doesnt come close. Eberle is likely a luxury we cannot afford.

 

[Finesse]

i would have no issue with trading letang for eberle.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I would love Eberle but no way in hell im trading Letang straight up for him let alone add. Letang is a top 10 defender in this league and that is woth more than a winger especially when you have an options like Bennett and Dupuis when healthy. I rather trade less for 3rd liners than trade Letang unless completely overwhelmed.

Again i would love Eberle, and would gladly give guys like Despres, Bennett, Sutter etc but that probably doesnt come close. Eberle is likely a luxury we cannot afford.

"I'd gladly give the Oilers a good defensive prospect, a massive downgrade of a young winger, and a run of the mill 3rd line center for one of the better young wingers in the league." Gotta give to get.

Letang is the luxury we can't afford. Eberle, or someone of his caliber, is a necessity this team has nothing in the way of, and the type of player we're going to need to get over the playoff scoring depth issue. I like Bennett, but if you can get someone like Eberle, E. Kane, ROR, etc. you do it in a heartbeat.

This team is short two wingers in the top six, with Sid's RW vacancy and Jokinen playing on Geno's LW when he's much better suited for 3rd line duty. Even if Dupuis was healthy, who here still feels comfortable with him as a scoring line winger come playoff time? He's getting up there in age, and the luster is wearing off as far as his impact on a scoring line goes. His game is predicated on speed, and this is the type of injury that ruins a guy like Dupuis. He's been played out of position and reality caught up to him this season, even before his injury.

Letang isn't a top tier defender in the league. He's not stellar defensively, he's got the hockey IQ of a Gatorade bottle, and he refuses to play a simple but effective game. He's still worth a bundle to teams that need impact defensemen, but we're not one of them. I've said it a bunch, but even with all his short-comings, I'm sure he's worth a King's ransom to numerous teams around the league who are in need of a player like Letang. We've been fine without him for extended stretches, and we've been fine with him playing absolutely garbage hockey. Trade Letang for a stud winger to finally solve Sid's winger problem, re-sign Niskanen, let Orpik walk or try to get what you can for him, and move forward a much, much stronger and deeper team.

Letang is the solution to a huge problem this team has had for eight-plus years. He's an asset that, in my opinion, is best used as a trading chip to strengthen the team's forward depth.

Kunitz - Crosby - ROR/Kane/Eberle/etc
Bennett - Malkin - Neal
Megna - Sutter - Dupuis

That's a top-nine I'd be ecstatic with moving forward.

Martin - Despres
Niskanen - Maatta
Bortuzzo - Scuderi
Engelland

That's a defensive corps I would also be extremely happy with moving forward.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Where were all these Letang naysayers when I was taking bullets pre-contract extension?

If you were campaigning not to resign him, then that would have been a terrible idea to let him walk.

If you were arguing to trade him then for a winger for Sid, that is perfectly reasonable, as it is now, but the deal may not have been there. Rumors were that the offers to Shero were for futures. That would not have been a good deal.

Trading him now is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, but in the current cap environment, and with such major changes happening with the cap in the near future, it is very hard to find a dance partner. Of the players that this board fixates on, there is no perfect or even good deal, in terms of making it actually happen:

ROR: questions about value, salary cap hit a problem, not controlled definitively beyond July 1 of this year, has signed an offer sheet in the past (issues with his organization). UFA in 2 years.

Kane (or Wheeler): Winnipeg has no need for Letang, this deal relies on a series of unlikely events to create need (them trading Buff, them wanting Letang, us coming to a value deal with them). And there are cap issues picking up Wheeler, Ladd, or Kane.

Eberle: questions of value, and issues making the caps work.

Eberle has the least hurdles, but is he the player you really want? He's the least desirable for me of all the players we talk about.

In CP's days there was no salary cap, it made blockbuster deals much easier to do. You will never or very rarely see deals like that any more.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

"I'd gladly give the Oilers a good defensive prospect, a massive downgrade of a young winger, and a run of the mill 3rd line center for one of the better young wingers in the league." Gotta give to get.

Letang is the luxury we can't afford. Eberle, or someone of his caliber, is a necessity this team has nothing in the way of, and the type of player we're going to need to get over the playoff scoring depth issue. I like Bennett, but if you can get someone like Eberle, E. Kane, ROR, etc. you do it in a heartbeat.

This team is short two wingers in the top six, with Sid's RW vacancy and Jokinen playing on Geno's LW when he's much better suited for 3rd line duty. Even if Dupuis was healthy, who here still feels comfortable with him as a scoring line winger come playoff time? He's getting up there in age, and the luster is wearing off as far as his impact on a scoring line goes. His game is predicated on speed, and this is the type of injury that ruins a guy like Dupuis. He's been played out of position and reality caught up to him this season, even before his injury.

Letang isn't a top tier defender in the league. He's not stellar defensively, he's got the hockey IQ of a Gatorade bottle, and he refuses to play a simple but effective game. He's still worth a bundle to teams that need impact defensemen, but we're not one of them. I've said it a bunch, but even with all his short-comings, I'm sure he's worth a King's ransom to numerous teams around the league who are in need of a player like Letang. We've been fine without him for extended stretches, and we've been fine with him playing absolutely garbage hockey. Trade Letang for a stud winger to finally solve Sid's winger problem, re-sign Niskanen, let Orpik walk or try to get what you can for him, and move forward a much, much stronger and deeper team.

Letang is the solution to a huge problem this team has had for eight-plus years. He's an asset that, in my opinion, is best used as a trading chip to strengthen the team's forward depth.

Kunitz - Crosby - ROR/Kane/Eberle/etc
Bennett - Malkin - Neal
Megna - Sutter - Dupuis

That's a top-nine I'd be ecstatic with moving forward.

Martin - Despres
Niskanen - Maatta
Bortuzzo - Scuderi
Engelland

That's a defensive corps I would also be extremely happy with moving forward.

Thats why i said it wont get you even close, Letang is a top 10 defensman and i aint trading that unless the offer was one that couldnt be refused. I would much rather trade a lesser D-man for a lesser forward. Wingers are the most fungible asset on a hockey team. For christ sake we won a cup with Feds and Talbot on the 2nd line and Bill Guerin on the first. If anything our needs are a vastly improved 3rd line and we can do that for alot less than Letang.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I would add significantly to Letang for Landeskog.

Yah there is 0.0 chance Kris Letang will get us Landeskog. Not happening. Duchene, Lando and MacKinnon are going nowhere, including for a top-notch D.

And nearly all of those deals suck. If we trade Letang, we need a guaranteed real thing. Burrows? Really?

A) Read my whole post... I suggested some we should not go after, but in any case all would be a upgrade over everyone not named Kunitz and Neal IMO, some more so than others.

B) Burrows is injury prone and a little old (and I haven't checked his hit) but could easily produce more offensive than most W on this team. Hence the + sign. What if we could get a deal that included Burrows and Kassian or something like that? The Canucks' D pool is not as deep as it was a few years ago, they might be willing to make us a deal. Would love to see Kesler as our 3C but that won't happen so I named Burrows as a guy who could form the basis of a larger group of assets. Point was just that there are other teams out there who could make a decent deal with us.

Not advocating it though. I still think Letang's biggest problem is Bylsma's system. I would see the value in someone like Eberle or ROR or Wheeler but those are pretty big IFs. I don't think Shero would strand Letang in EDM for one, and I don't think WPG can afford to give up any of Wheeler, Ladd or Kane (because then their offense becomes paper thin). ROR may be the best option because of Colorado's depth at his position and his salary and their lack of a stud D. Plus the French coach thing.

ROR is a much more complete and all around better player than Wheeler. However Wheeler is a much better skater.

Wheeler's the bigger body too on the PP etc.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Thats why i said it wont get you even close, Letang is a top 10 defensman and i aint trading that unless the offer was one that couldnt be refused. I would much rather trade a lesser D-man for a lesser forward. Wingers are the most fungible asset on a hockey team. For christ sake we won a cup with Feds and Talbot on the 2nd line and Bill Guerin on the first. If anything our needs are a vastly improved 3rd line and we can do that for alot less than Letang.

We didn't play anything near a defensive stalwart in our run through the playoffs that season until we got to the Cup Finals. Geno continued his great play in the Finals with 1g, 6a in the seven games, but Sid was held to 1g, 2a. Sid and Geno were playing ungodly hockey, and honestly, teams learned from it. It's no longer about trying to win with scraps, it's about insulating your best players with the help they'll need. Teams know to win, they need to shadow Sid and Geno are dare the wingers on their lines to step up. Kunitz and Neal are really good starts, but after that, we have Bennett--who is wholly unproven at the playoff level because Bylsma refuses to allow him to prove himself.

With teams like Boston, who are able to both get Sid and Geno off their game in terms of focus, and shadow them defensively, are you really comfortable saying "We've won with Guerin, Feds and Talbot?" That's just in the East. Do you feel comfortable with the current state of the forward corps against any of the big teams out west (Anaheim, St. Louis, Chicago, LA)?

I just genuinely don't believe replacing Letang with a stud winger hurts us in any way. Letang can be a gamebreaker, for sure, but when you score 2 goals in a 4 game embarrassment against a team we're likely to meet in the post season every year, something's gotta be done.

Letang's presence isn't going to get us over the hump, but adding legitimate scoring depth up front will go a long way toward making this team a Hell of a lot more dangerous.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

We didn't play anything near a defensive stalwart in our run through the playoffs that season. Sid and Geno were playing ungodly hockey, and honestly, teams learned from it. It's no longer about trying to win with scraps, it's about insulating your best players with the help they'll need. Teams know to win, they need to shadow Sid and Geno are dare the wingers on their lines to step up. Kunitz and Neal are really good starts, but after that, we have Bennett--who is wholly unproven at the playoff level because Bylsma refuses to allow him to prove himself.

With teams like Boston, who are able to both get Sid and Geno off their game in terms of focus, and shadow them defensively, are you really comfortable saying "We've won with Guerin, Feds and Talbot?" That's just in the East. Do you feel comfortable with the current state of the forward corps against any of the big teams out west (Anaheim, St. Louis, Chicago, LA)?

I just genuinely don't believe replacing Letang with a stud winger hurts us in any way. Letang can be a gamebreaker, for sure, but when you score 2 goals in a 4 game embarrassment against a team we're likely to meet in the post season every year, something's gotta be done.

Letang's presence isn't going to get us over the hump, but adding legitimate scoring depth up front will go a long way toward making this team a Hell of a lot more dangerous.

The way i see it we didnt lose last season because our wingers couldnt score, Jokinen, Neal and Kunitz are plenty of firepower. The problem was threefold. Sid and Geno didnt play well, a handful of bad bounces and posts, but mainly our transition game.

Maata and Nisky stepping up this year will halp but if Letang is on top of his game this team is very hard to beat. IIRC someone on the radio recently said that a member of the Boston org. told them that the crux of their game plan was to stop Letang and the breakout. If that doesnt tell you what you need to now about Letangs importance i dont know what will.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The way i see it we didnt lose last season because our wingers couldnt score, Jokinen, Neal and Kunitz are plenty of firepower. The problem was threefold. Sid and Geno didnt play well, a handful of bad bounces and posts, but mainly our transition game.

Maata and Nisky stepping up this year will halp but if Letang is on top of his game this team is very hard to beat. IIRC someone on the radio recently said that a member of the Boston org. told them that the crux of their game plan was to stop Letang and the breakout. If that doesnt tell you what you need to now about Letangs importance i dont know what will.

Jokinen is servicable on Geno's wing until Bennett comes back, but he's best used on the 3rd line as a depth guy.

And I don't really buy the Boston keying on Letang thing. Maybe if it came from a reputable source like McKenzie or something via TSN, but some dude on the radio? Pittsburgh sports guys--especially hockey related--aren't exactly pillars of knowledge. I think their entire gameplan revolved around getting under Sid and Geno's skin, getting them off their game, and shutting them down defensively and daring the likes of Dupuis and Kunitz to step up without the aid of Sid. It didn't happen. It was blatantly apparent from the start that the Bruins were going into the series with their entire focus on Sid and Geno with the mentality of "If the depth guys beat us, so be it, but we're going to make sure Sid and Geno don't run rampant." Neal and Kunitz couldn't step up, and in that situation, Letang's not bailing us out even on his best days, and he's not strong enough defensively to shut down the opposition the way we need a guy making that kind of money should.

 

[alcanalz]

Jokinen is servicable on Geno's wing until Bennett comes back, but he's best used on the 3rd line as a depth guy.

And I don't really buy the Boston keying on Letang thing. Maybe if it came from a reputable source like McKenzie or something via TSN, but some dude on the radio? Pittsburgh sports guys--especially hockey related--aren't exactly pillars of knowledge. I think their entire gameplan revolved around getting under Sid and Geno's skin, getting them off their game, and shutting them down defensively and daring the likes of Dupuis and Kunitz to step up without the aid of Sid. It didn't happen. It was blatantly apparent from the start that the Bruins were going into the series with their entire focus on Sid and Geno with the mentality of "If the depth guys beat us, so be it, but we're going to make sure Sid and Geno don't run rampant." Neal and Kunitz couldn't step up, and in that situation, Letang's not bailing us out even on his best days, and he's not strong enough defensively to shut down the opposition the way we need a guy making that kind of money should.

That's literally every single team's game plan any time we have a game, though.

It's true that they did destroy our transition game though.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Jokinen is servicable on Geno's wing until Bennett comes back, but he's best used on the 3rd line as a depth guy.

And I don't really buy the Boston keying on Letang thing. Maybe if it came from a reputable source like McKenzie or something via TSN, but some dude on the radio? Pittsburgh sports guys--especially hockey related--aren't exactly pillars of knowledge. I think their entire gameplan revolved around getting under Sid and Geno's skin, getting them off their game, and shutting them down defensively and daring the likes of Dupuis and Kunitz to step up without the aid of Sid. It didn't happen. It was blatantly apparent from the start that the Bruins were going into the series with their entire focus on Sid and Geno with the mentality of "If the depth guys beat us, so be it, but we're going to make sure Sid and Geno don't run rampant." Neal and Kunitz couldn't step up, and in that situation, Letang's not bailing us out even on his best days, and he's not strong enough defensively to shut down the opposition the way we need a guy making that kind of money should.

Agreed about Jokenin but its good enough to win with even if not ideal.

Secondly as far as the source, unless he was completely making it up i dont see the issue, because they did in fact kill our transition game. Now obviously they are going to key on Sid/Malkin in the offensive zone but thats the plan every game against us. They are the two best offensive forwards in the world and they have to do better, Kuntix etc and Neal etc should be plenty to at least keep them in that series. The problem IMO is we could not generate anoffense off the rush due to them snuffing our stretch passes and their forward backchecking like crazy.

 

[PensFanSince1989]

Jokinen is servicable on Geno's wing until Bennett comes back, but he's best used on the 3rd line as a depth guy.

And I don't really buy the Boston keying on Letang thing. Maybe if it came from a reputable source like McKenzie or something via TSN, but some dude on the radio? Pittsburgh sports guys--especially hockey related--aren't exactly pillars of knowledge. I think their entire gameplan revolved around getting under Sid and Geno's skin, getting them off their game, and shutting them down defensively and daring the likes of Dupuis and Kunitz to step up without the aid of Sid. It didn't happen. It was blatantly apparent from the start that the Bruins were going into the series with their entire focus on Sid and Geno with the mentality of "If the depth guys beat us, so be it, but we're going to make sure Sid and Geno don't run rampant." Neal and Kunitz couldn't step up, and in that situation, Letang's not bailing us out even on his best days, and he's not strong enough defensively to shut down the opposition the way we need a guy making that kind of money should.

When Bennett comes back, he goes to replace Crosby's RW'er. Not Jokinen on Geno's line.

 

[PensFanSince1989]

Agreed about Jokenin but its good enough to win with even if not ideal.

Secondly as far as the source, unless he was completely making it up i dont see the issue, because they did in fact kill our transition game. Now obviously they are going to key on Sid/Malkin in the offensive zone but thats the plan every game against us. They are the two best offensive forwards in the world and they have to do better, Kuntix etc and Neal etc should be plenty to at least keep them in that series. The problem IMO is we could not generate anoffense off the rush due to them snuffing our stretch passes and their forward backchecking like crazy.

They killed our transition game by giving Sid and Malkin zero room in the neutral zone, and had Bergeron shadowing Sid.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

They killed our transition game by giving Sid and Malkin zero room in the neutral zone, and had Bergeron shadowing Sid.

Right, the point being they went out of their way to kill the transition game. They had their forwards back to kill that part of the game, completely neutralizing what Letang can brings to the table. Obviously the most dangerous outlets Malkin and Crosby got the most attention.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I just don't believe we have the depth at forward to get through Boston, and if we do, I don't think we stand a snowballs chance in Hell against the western powerhouses.

It's the same old song and dance with the team composition. Our scoring depth is lacking while Sid and Geno are flanked by the likes of Dupuis, Jokinen, Kobasew, etc. Bennett is promising, and I have really high hopes for the guy, but is it realistic or fair to expect him to be an impact player in his first legitimate year on a scoring line? I'd still like to see Shero land Sid a RW, and have Bennett as the third wheel with Geno and Neal. Kunitz is playing great hockey, and producing at an unreal rate, but he's also going to be 35 next season. The importance of finding the solution to Sid's wing is growing as time passes. The playoff factors, Kunitz's age, the fact that we have all of our eggs in one basket with Bennett... It's time to fix the problem once and for all, and Letang is the player who can--and should be used to fix it.

I have nothing personal against Letang, I just think we're a much stronger team with what he brings back via trade than with him at $7.25M/yr, seeing as how the organization is rife with defensemen. Letang's presence is a luxury and not an integral part of this team's keys to success.

 

[wgknestrick]

Does ANYBODY here understand that team "depth" does not equal (5) 30g scorers scattered across only 2 lines?

Depth means you have 3-4 lines that can go out against anybody and win the shot and goal differential battle on a consistent basis. Our bottom 6 is "BUF terrible" at everything. Until there is a huge overhaul here, we are a pretender.

Right now we have 2 elite lines that have to make up goals that our bottom 6 lets up, and then they have to score enough to win the game.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Does ANYBODY here understand that team "depth" does not equal (5) 30g scorers scattered across only 2 lines?

Depth means you have 3-4 lines that can go out against anybody and win the shot and goal differential battle on a consistent basis. Our bottom 6 is "BUF terrible" at everything. Until there is a huge overhaul here, we are a pretender.

Right now we have 2 elite lines that have to make up goals that our bottom 6 lets up, and then they have to score enough to win the game.

Exactly. When you get a legit, top-flight scoring line winger, you can shift players like Dupuis and Jokinen in their proper roles as bottom-six guys.

 

[wgknestrick]

Exactly. When you get a legit, top-flight scoring line winger, you can shift players like Dupuis and Jokinen in their proper roles as bottom-six guys.

Actually, you send Kobasew down.......B6 still not fixed.

Duppers is not coming back this year. We would need at least 2 forwards.

 

[ZeroHero]

Hertl + for Letang?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Exactly. When you get a legit, top-flight scoring line winger, you can shift players like Dupuis and Jokinen in their proper roles as bottom-six guys.

Or you can give up a lot less for guys to fill those roles outright without hurting your defense.

IMO going forward Letang will be a bargain and he is absolutley integral to what this team does.

 

[Shady Machine]

Hertl + for Letang?

Too small of a sample size to trade Letang unless the plus is really good.

 

[Shady Machine]

Or you can give up a lot less for guys to fill those roles outright without hurting your defense.

IMO going forward Letang will be a bargain and he is absolutley integral to what this team does.

Examples please.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Examples please.

Examples of what getting 3rd liners for less than giving up Letang?

 

[IcedCapp]

I just don't believe we have the depth at forward to get through Boston, and if we do, I don't think we stand a snowballs chance in Hell against the western powerhouses.

It's the same old song and dance with the team composition. Our scoring depth is lacking while Sid and Geno are flanked by the likes of Dupuis, Jokinen, Kobasew, etc. Bennett is promising, and I have really high hopes for the guy, but is it realistic or fair to expect him to be an impact player in his first legitimate year on a scoring line? I'd still like to see Shero land Sid a RW, and have Bennett as the third wheel with Geno and Neal. Kunitz is playing great hockey, and producing at an unreal rate, but he's also going to be 35 next season. The importance of finding the solution to Sid's wing is growing as time passes. The playoff factors, Kunitz's age, the fact that we have all of our eggs in one basket with Bennett... It's time to fix the problem once and for all, and Letang is the player who can--and should be used to fix it.

I have nothing personal against Letang, I just think we're a much stronger team with what he brings back via trade than with him at $7.25M/yr, seeing as how the organization is rife with defensemen. Letang's presence is a luxury and not an integral part of this team's keys to success.

Does ANYBODY here understand that team "depth" does not equal (5) 30g scorers scattered across only 2 lines?

Depth means you have 3-4 lines that can go out against anybody and win the shot and goal differential battle on a consistent basis. Our bottom 6 is "BUF terrible" at everything. Until there is a huge overhaul here, we are a pretender.

Right now we have 2 elite lines that have to make up goals that our bottom 6 lets up, and then they have to score enough to win the game.

which is why, if Shero is unwilling to move a roster player, this year is a wash.

Despres can't bring back anything that will help the Penguins this year when you factor in the salary cap.

If you're going to create depth and balance, you have to move a roster player.

 

[Shady Machine]

Examples of what getting 3rd liners for less than giving up Letang?

Examples of making our team better by trading other pieces for 3rd liners over trading Letang. You can say you'd rather keep Letang and get rid of other pieces, but I don't see a scenario where our team becomes better near and long term by doing that. So please show me a scenario that does that.