Value of: Kotkaniemi extension

[Habs Halifax]

I'm happy to see Kotkaniemi finally starting to break out. I always believed in him, and couldn't find a better place than Carolina for him to do so (winning mentality is a big deal). Go KK!

It's because he is on a better team and their fan base and media are not obsessed with his usage. He's developing in piece and it's kind of why Norlinder wanted to go back to the SHL. Montreal is cancer culture for younger players that take time to develop. Way too much conversation traffic and obsession on what to do with young players. Those players are under a microscope in Montreal so the Habs need to realize that our market requires us to not rush guys.

The same fans and media who overact think our management team has development problems. It's deep with context and management can do better but part of the problem is obsession with hockey talk in Montreal. Young players need less attention IMO but they got a black cloud following them around waiting for their next mistake. We can't help ourselves on that

Imagine if the Habs drafted Lafreniere and he was meh like that in Montreal? His name would be plastered all over HF boards. Rangers fan base may be disappointed to some degree but no where near the obsession it would be in Montreal. Reality

 

[jfhabs]

I said literally "If he continues as a PPG player...". [MOD]

Yes, it's just a pipe dream. Most of his assists are secondary.
He feeds off the play of his better teamates, he's not driving the play at all.
He still has skating/balance issue.
As long as that's the case, he can't be counted on to be anywhere close to PPG over a long stretch of games.

It's not impossible he gets there, I think the biggest issue might be himself. If he thinks he has it figured out (he's already making north of 6M a year after all!)

 

[jfhabs]

It's because he is on a better team and their fan base and media are not obsessed with his usage. He's developing in piece and it's kind of why Norlinder wanted to go back to the SHL. Montreal is cancer culture for younger players that take time to develop. Way too much conversation traffic and obsession on what to do with young players. Those players are under a microscope in Montreal so the Habs need to realize that our market requires us to not rush guys.

The same fans and media who overact think our management team has development problems. It's deep with context and management can do better but part of the problem is obsession with hockey talk in Montreal. Young players need less attention IMO but they got a black cloud following them around waiting for their next mistake. We can't help ourselves on that

Imagine if the Habs drafted Lafreniere and he was meh like that in Montreal? His name would be plastered all over HF boards. Rangers fan base may be disappointed to some degree but no where near the obsession it would be in Montreal. Reality

The only thing that's different in Montreal and New York right now is the Rangers can count on Panarin, Zibanejad and Fox. In Montreal, we expect 20 yo to be saviors.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The only thing that's different in Montreal and New York right now is the Rangers can count on Panarin, Zibanejad and Fox. In Montreal, we expect 20 yo to be saviors.

I think the Habs media and fan base would be more upset if we drafted Lafreniere and he was meh like that. I stand firm so that's not the only difference.

 

[jfhabs]

I think the Habs media and fan base would be more upset if we drafted Lafreniere and he was meh like that. I stand firm so that's not the only difference.

You're probably right. But to which extent does it have a marginal difference. The New York Rangers media and fan base are pretty significant and impatient too, just like we are!

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Yes, it's just a pipe dream. Most of his assists are secondary.
He feeds off the play of his better teamates, he's not driving the play at all.
He still has skating/balance issue.
As long as that's the case, he can't be counted on to be anywhere close to PPG over a long stretch of games.

It's not impossible he gets there, I think the biggest issue might be himself. If he thinks he has it figured out (he's already making north of 6M a year after all!)

This is a great post by someone who clearly hasn’t watched him play this year. Kotkaniemi is all over the ice and one of the more engaged forwards on the Canes. Strong board play, net front presence, makes 1 or 2 big hits a game. He’s been playing great lately.

 

[jfhabs]

This is a great post by someone who clearly hasn’t watched him play this year. Kotkaniemi is all over the ice and one of the more engaged forwards on the Canes. Strong board play, net front presence, makes 1 or 2 big hits a game. He’s been playing great lately.

Haha I've watched him plenty.
Homerrrrrr
Falling all over the ice yes. Sure he does throw a good hit or 2, that's all.
He can make plays, he's just always behind the play

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Haha I've watched him plenty.
Homerrrrrr
Falling all over the ice yes. Sure he does throw a good hit or 2, that's all.
He can make plays, he's just always behind the play

Not really but thanks for your great insight and contribution

 

[jfhabs]

Not really but thanks for your great insight and contribution

All over the ice. Talk about a homer. Give me a break. He isn't anywhere close to one of the Canes best player

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

All over the ice. Talk about a homer. Give me a break. He isn't anywhere close to one of the Canes best player

Yes, lately he has.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Haha I've watched him plenty.
Homerrrrrr
Falling all over the ice yes. Sure he does throw a good hit or 2, that's all.
He can make plays, he's just always behind the play

Ah, great points. Thank you. When I have watched him in just about every game played this year, I was too busy noticing him make great board play, forecheck, move the puck up the ice, play very aggressive physically, be a net front presence and pest, park in front of the goalie for screens and tip-ins, and be one of the best rover players on our team at being fluid in his positioning. I realize now that I shouldn't be focusing on the hockey stuff that Kotkaniemi does, but instead focus on the fally stuff he does.

 

[jfhabs]

Ah, great points. Thank you. When I have watched him in just about every game played this year, I was too busy noticing him make great board play, forecheck, move the puck up the ice, play very aggressive physically, be a net front presence and pest, park in front of the goalie for screens and tip-ins, and be one of the best rover players on our team at being fluid in his positioning. I realize now that I shouldn't be focusing on the hockey stuff that Kotkaniemi does, but instead focus on the fally stuff he does.

I guess that's how you start from playing on the 1st line and end up on the 3rd-4th with little ice time... I guess Rod saw, I saw it, but you saw the hits and elite boardplay

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes, lately he has.

He's done well over the last 10 games or so. Still playing about 12-13 min a game and careful usage in the match up game but he's not one of your best players. This type of pumping is typically labeled on Habs fans and your doing the same thing as a Canes fan.

 

[ONO94]

Yes, lately he has.

Obvious troll is obvious....why reply?

 

[GrandBison]

To be fair, Kotkaniemi seems to play exactly as expected, and stats are showing this. Young developing player with some upside, not ready to take a bigger role and hard to project as a future player. That kind of players are probably head scratchers for contract negotiation, you don't want to commit with them, but at the same time, maybe they will explode and make you regret giving up.

As a Habs fan, it's very interesting to see what will happen. Will Kotkaniemi take the same pattern as he did with the Habs and go for FA and a pay check, or he really want to stay in Carolina?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Obvious troll is obvious....why reply?

Slow work day and it seems to upset them on here so why not?

 

[FlyguyOX]

Yes, it's just a pipe dream. Most of his assists are secondary.
He feeds off the play of his better teamates, he's not driving the play at all.
He still has skating/balance issue.
As long as that's the case, he can't be counted on to be anywhere close to PPG over a long stretch of games.

It's not impossible he gets there, I think the biggest issue might be himself. If he thinks he has it figured out (he's already making north of 6M a year after all!)

Not driving play at all? Huh? He leads the Canes in Corsi For % at 61.7%, Fenwick For % at 59.86%, Corsi differential per 60, Fenwick differential per 60, RelTM C+- per 60, RelTM F+- per 60. The chances aren't as quality as some of his teammates but he is clearly driving play. Not sure where you got that from tbh.

 

[DaPhazz]

Yikes i didn’t realize some habs fans are still trying to convince people that Carolina didn’t screw them over.

Bergevin literally got fired and you guys are still trying to defend him after he basically gave up 3rd overall + for a 3rd line C.

Oh well, i guess the standings speak for themselves.

There's some truth in your statement, but the bolded, who cares. Would you trade your 3rd overall for KK ?

 

[jfhabs]

Not driving play at all? Huh? He leads the Canes in Corsi For % at 61.7%, Fenwick For % at 59.86%, Corsi differential per 60, Fenwick differential per 60, RelTM C+- per 60, RelTM F+- per 60. The chances aren't as quality as some of his teammates but he is clearly driving play. Not sure where you got that from tbh.

Corsi and Fenwick doesn't necessarily mean he drives the play.
Where I got that from? From watching him play, a lot.
That's why you need to look at advanced stats with context. 1 or 2 stats alone doesn't give the full picture.
Shooting from everywhere will give you good Corsi, doesn't mean you're really creating much. Also helps that he starts in the O-zone a whooping 68.8% of the time!!!!

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Corsi and Fenwick doesn't necessarily mean he drives the play.
Where I got that from? From watching him play, a lot.
That's why you need to look at advanced stats with context. 1 or 2 stats alone doesn't give the full picture.
Shooting from everywhere will give you good Corsi, doesn't mean you're really creating much. Also helps that he starts in the O-zone a whooping 68.8% of the time!!!!

No he doesn't.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Corsi and Fenwick doesn't necessarily mean he drives the play.
Where I got that from? From watching him play, a lot.
That's why you need to look at advanced stats with context. 1 or 2 stats alone doesn't give the full picture.
Shooting from everywhere will give you good Corsi, doesn't mean you're really creating much. Also helps that he starts in the O-zone a whooping 68.8% of the time!!!!

This may be a shocker, but a 20-21 year old can actually improve from year to year.

At 5v5-
He starts with the puck in the OZ 13.36% of the time, lowest of all forwards on CAR.
His OZ faceoff % is 40.97%, 5th among CAR forwards, NZ faceoff % is 36.11, 5th among CAR forwards, DZ faceoff % is 22.92%, 2nd least among CAR forwards.

 

[jfhabs]

No he doesn't.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Your data is too simplified. Look at the context.

 

[jfhabs]

This may be a shocker, but a 20-21 year old can actually improve from year to year.

At 5v5-
He starts with the puck in the OZ 13.36% of the time, lowest of all forwards on CAR.
His OZ faceoff % is 40.97%, 5th among CAR forwards, NZ faceoff % is 36.11, 5th among CAR forwards, DZ faceoff % is 22.92%, 2nd least among CAR forwards.

You're absolutely right he can improve and will improve. However I'm discussing the way he contributes right now with other posters.
The bolded kind of points in the same direction I was arguing, no?
What does it mean he starts with the puck in the OZ 13.36% of the time?
From my perspective and it seems like it's very clear that he's being sheltered big time by the coaching staff.

Where yo dou get these numbers? On hockeyreference :

 

[FlyguyOX]

By your definition Sebastian Aho is sheltered, too, and thus not any good and doesn't drive play.

Numbers from Evolving-Hockey.