Value of: Kotkaniemi extension

[NotProkofievian]

What are his stats at wing vs C?

According to the iltalehti article, he switched back to center during the VGK game. If that's true he had something like 2 points in 13 games as a winger, and 12 points in 17 games as a center.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I dislike this separation of 5on5 or PP goals, but Kotkaniemi is playing well so far. Also dislike these random comments that try to Habsplain it to "lesser hockey fans".

Habs Icing has never liked KK, from day one. That's what's going on here.

 

[BB88]

According to the iltalehti article, he switched back to center during the VGK game. If that's true he had something like 2 points in 13 games as a winger, and 12 points in 17 games as a center.

That’s what people like to ignore.

As Waddell said himself they placed him in the wrong spot at the beginning

 

[General Fanager]

Leads team in 5v5 goals, but is seen as a problem lol.

6.1 for 14 points in 31 games. You're right. No problem there....

If the Habs would be bad with or without Dvorak then why’d they spend a 1st on him???

No one foresaw they would be this bad. We knew it would be a step back but all the injuries and covid shredded any hope of them being at all decent.

I think he's gonna dominate in a couple years from now.....

I don't know about dominate but he will be good. I really think he will

 

[The90]

6.1 for 14 points in 31 games. You're right. No problem there....



No one foresaw they would be this bad. We knew it would be a step back but all the injuries and covid shredded any hope of them being at all decent.



I don't know about dominate but he will be good. I really think he will

To be fair, the biggest fail of all is that you busted another third overall pick. It’s a sore spot which is why hab fans have a hard time moving on from it.

there were quite a few people suggesting they wouldn’t be good. You were on pace to miss the playoffs for the 5th time in 7 years last year and lost Weber, Price and Danault all as top line pieces. Even without the injuries that’s a bottom 6 roster.

 

[General Fanager]

To be fair the biggest fail of all is that you busted another third overall pick. It’s a sore spot which is why hab fans have a hard time moving on from it.

I don't think its much of a surprise that the wrong player was picked at 3rd overall. But letting him go to the offer sheet was the smart move.

 

[The90]

I don't think its much of a surprise that the wrong player was picked at 3rd overall. But letting him go to the offer sheet was the smart move.

Not if you’re just going to turn those picks around and swap them for Dvorak. At that point it’s moot. A lateral swap plus a third round pick. Which statistically isn’t likely to end up an NHL player, let alone a contributing NHL player.

 

[General Fanager]

Not if you’re just going to turn those picks around and swap them for Dvorak. At that point it’s moot. A lateral swap plus a third round pick. Which statistically isn’t likely to end up an NHL player, let alone a contributing NHL player.

Letting him go had nothing to do with KK and had everything to do with The Habs other young guys.

6.1 is too much for him and MB would get laughed out of the room if he tried to lowball bridge deal Suzuki or Caufield or Romanov.

MB really had no choice but to let him go.

 

[NotProkofievian]

That’s what people like to ignore.

As Waddell said himself they placed him in the wrong spot at the beginning

KK had to define a role for himself at the beginning of the year, and it was quite possible that he would never find it. But now the tide has pretty obviously turned, and he looks to be on the way up after being pronounced dead after seemingly every game that went by without a point.

 

[ole ole]

If the Habs would be bad with or without Dvorak then why’d they spend a 1st on him???

If KK wasn't going to be an asset than why spend a 1st,3rd and 6.1 mil for him.

 

[The90]

Letting him go had nothing to do with KK and had everything to do with The Habs other young guys.

6.1 is too much for him and MB would get laughed out of the room if he tried to lowball bridge deal Suzuki or Caufield or Romanov.

MB really had no choice but to let him go.

As you well know, 6.1 was part of the acquisition cost and wouldn’t at all be reflective of the contracts of those players. Besides, you already signed Suzuki for a big payday he himself may or may not grow into.

 

[ole ole]

7 in 30 is just shy of a 20 goal pace.

So 20 goals is now worth 6.1 mil + a1st and a 3rd rd pick.
Face it . Was a stupid move on the Canes part to OS KK . Didn't hurt the Habs at all.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

the only ones calling it a stupid move in this thread are habs fans, for the record

copium out in full force

 

[General Fanager]

As you well know, 6.1 was part of the acquisition cost and wouldn’t at all be reflective of the contracts of those players. Besides, you already signed Suzuki for a big payday he himself may or may not grow into.

MB loved his bridge deals. I think the plan was to bridge all of them until the offer sheet. The plans had to change.

At the time Suzuki and CC were more important to The Habs than KK. If The Habs kept KK at 6.1 and then tried to bridge Suzuki and CC for 2 years at 3ish he gets laughed out of the room. Now you have 3 players pissed at the organization.

Look I think MB is an imbecile and made many mistakes, but letting KK go was a smart move.

 

[Hostile Offer]

And the Habs will be watching Arizona walk to the podium to use the KK 1st rounder.

big winners here seem to be KK and Arizona. Carolina too if they have a deep playoff run.

Losers here. Looks like the Habs and MB in hindsight.

That KK first rounder is going to be like 27th pick or so depending on how the Canes are doing in the playoffs. Not necessarily a huge loss. I certainly didn't anticipate the offer sheet but at $6.1M it's a no brainer walk-away.

 

[ole ole]

the only ones calling it a stupid move in this thread are habs fans, for the record

copium out in full force

For the record, you believe that giving up a 1st'3d and paying KK 6.1 mil was a smart move?

 

[The90]

MB loved his bridge deals. I think the plan was to bridge all of them until the offer sheet. The plans had to change.

At the time Suzuki and CC were more important to The Habs than KK. If The Habs kept KK at 6.1 and then tried to bridge Suzuki and CC for 2 years at 3ish he gets laughed out of the room. Now you have 3 players pissed at the organization.

Look I think MB is an imbecile and made many mistakes, but letting KK go was a smart move.

You justify that however you want to, it’s bad for the Habs x2. Losing the player and drafting the player. You can put lipstick on the pig, but it’s still a pig.

 

[HabsQC]

Seeing what we see today, I'm more pissed at losing the Canes 1st than KK tbh. We coulve used it to go higher in the draft or packaged it with Ryder and Halak or something.

I do hope KK reaches his potential. Canes made a good chess move and if he can further develop, they will look good in this OS.

If I'm KK, I go for the 1 year - 6.1M$ this year, hoping the Canes won't want to lose me for nothing and believe I can actually become the offensive threat I was supposed to become.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

For the record, you believe that giving up a 1st'3d and paying KK 6.1 mil was a smart move?

a better move than doing nothing with our extra cap space this year, especially considering what other alternatives (none) there were at the time

the 6.1m is a slight overpay to buy the player from montreal. only way offer sheets can work

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

So 20 goals is now worth 6.1 mil + a1st and a 3rd rd pick.
Face it . Was a stupid move on the Canes part to OS KK . Didn't hurt the Habs at all.

Again, his cap hit is largely irrelevant to the Canes for this season. We’ve seen teams give up similar assets at the deadline for Middle 6 type veteran rentals.

Ultimately, you’re not going to convince any Canes fan that this was a stupid move. It may turn out to be a sub-optimal move, but the major L you want them to take isn’t happening. This was most likely a modest risk, something less than high reward gamble from the start. The only hope of the alternative was a terrible start a la Chicago. Carolina had a perfect October; that pick has been destined for the 20s for months now.

If it didn’t hurt the Habs, cool. It’s not hurting the Canes, either. It’s a pretty insignificant move, save for the way it went down. It’s time to get over it, I think.

 

[ole ole]

Again, his cap hit is largely irrelevant to the Canes for this season. We’ve seen teams give up similar assets at the deadline for Middle 6 type veteran rentals.

Ultimately, you’re not going to convince any Canes fan that this was a stupid move. It may turn out to be a sub-optimal move, but the major L you want them to take isn’t happening. This was most likely a modest risk, something less than high reward gamble from the start. The only hope of the alternative was a terrible start a la Chicago. Carolina had a perfect October; that pick has been destined for the 20s for months now.

If it didn’t hurt the Habs, cool. It’s not hurting the Canes, either. It’s a pretty insignificant move, save for the way it went down. It’s time to get over it, I think.

Over it. I was actually happy it happen. The whole board trolled the Habs about the OS and now all i see is that it backfired for the Canes. What's to get over?
I know most won't admit to it being a bad move. The big win for the Canes that was running around the board just didn't pan out now did it.
All we heard was win-win situation for the Canes and lose-lose situation for the Habs.
Guess that turned out wrong too.

 

[ole ole]

a better move than doing nothing with our extra cap space this year, especially considering what other alternatives (none) there were at the time

the 6.1m is a slight overpay to buy the player from montreal. only way offer sheets can work

It seems you forgot to mention the 1st and 3rd you also gave up in that so-called SLIGHT overpay.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Over it. I was actually happy it happen. The whole board trolled the Habs about the OS and now all i see is that it backfired for the Canes. What's to get over?

There it is. The reaction to the offer sheet clearly bothered you and now you’re getting your revenge (but failing to make a compelling argument in the process). That’s what you should get over.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

It seems you forgot to mention the 1st and 3rd you also gave up in that so-called SLIGHT overpay.

We like Kotkaniemi. He’s playing well for us especially as a C. $6.1 is more than he’s worth but we had the cap space and it didn’t hurt us this year. We are more than comfortable paying a late 1st and 3rd for him and feel that he can become a big part of the team moving forward. Thanks for your concern!

 

[StreetHawk]

We like Kotkaniemi. He’s playing well for us especially as a C. $6.1 is more than he’s worth but we had the cap space and it didn’t hurt us this year. We are more than comfortable paying a late 1st and 3rd for him and feel that he can become a big part of the team moving forward. Thanks for your concern!

Everything is fine for Carolina this season with the cap. Just going to be tight if they wish to add at the TDL, but can always make it work for a 3rd team giving up a mid round pick.
Started off slow because they had him on the Wing vs C. So, that experiment failed. So, if they don't keep him at C, I don't think he's as valuable a piece.

At the end of the day, it comes down to an extension. Do the 2 sides get one done?

Even if they discussed the parameters of one during their OS negotiations, nothing is enforceable by the NHL, and likely would be considered a CBA violation as they are not permitted to do that. So, if KK overperforms or underperforms the expectations, that could change the position of either side.

Aside from the money, I would expect KK to want some type of guarantee that he will remain at C.