Value of: Kotkaniemi extension

[Not The One]

Lower investment, lower expectations, lower discontent. A 3rd overall pick not panning out is brutal; that's supposed to be a franchise player. A late 1st and 3rd for a streaky Bottom 6 forward is not a big deal at all.

Anyway, my point was to offer evidence that runs counter to the narrative that the coaches are unhappy with engagement. Skating is the big weakness in his game. If he's not feeling it, giving him that extra step, he's a player that looks out of place in up tempo regular season matchups. Edmonton and Detroit, in particular, outskated the Canes.

You're right about differing expectations, but considering the lengths the Canes had to go through to acquire him, as well as the price in picks and cap space I don't see how this can be perceived as anything other than a failure.

The sad thing is that following the move a lot has been said about how KK felt disrespected by the lack of confidence his coaches had in him, his low icetime, about how he was going to be properly developed now and how he felt "at home" with his fellow finns. But with how he's been used so far, I really don't see how this has been beneficial to his career. He's a redundant spare part on a very deep team and he could easily be cast aside this summer and left to find a third team in three years to start all over again.

 

[Gaud]

This seems like a Habs reporter hoping for something rather than reporting.

this is possible, probable even. The guy is good at getting dirt... then coming to the wrong conclusions. This is why i was asking; he sees KK playing less minutes and thinks "omg the coach must hate him" when it could be that he is injured or something

 

[Zorro]

You're right about differing expectations, but considering the lengths the Canes had to go through to acquire him, as well as the price in picks and cap space I don't see how this can be perceived as anything other than a failure.

The sad thing is that following the move a lot has been said about how KK felt disrespected by the lack of confidence his coaches had in him, his low icetime, about how he was going to be properly developed now and how he felt "at home" with his fellow finns. But with how he's been used so far, I really don't see how this has been beneficial to his career. He's a redundant spare part on a very deep team and he could easily be cast aside this summer and left to find a third team in three years to start all over again.

I agree with this, his development thus far has been sub-par. He was streaky in montreal and his current production seems to indicate the same output...he currently has 22pts and 8 of those came in a 6 game stretch.

The saving grace with him is that he started very young in the NHL and thus is still only 22 (will be 23 to start next season) and could still change it around.

 

[Bouboumaster]

I'd take him back on the Habs, but at under 4M

 

[Habby4Life]

I'd take him back on the Habs, but at under 4M

Giant pass, he’s a third liner at best.

 

[FerrisRox]

A
Canes did him a solid by getting him out of MTL and into a good situation while getting him a lot of money this year.

He must be so grateful to get out of that awful situation where he had to play all those extra games into the Stanley Cup Final.

 

[Colezuki]

Lower investment, lower expectations, lower discontent. A 3rd overall pick not panning out is brutal; that's supposed to be a franchise player. A late 1st and 3rd for a streaky Bottom 6 forward is not a big deal at all.

Anyway, my point was to offer evidence that runs counter to the narrative that the coaches are unhappy with engagement. Skating is the big weakness in his game. If he's not feeling it, giving him that extra step, he's a player that looks out of place in up tempo regular season matchups. Edmonton and Detroit, in particular, outskated the Canes.

It isn't but for what the cost to acquire him was in Cap and Picks you to have to think that this was a mistake for the canes, maybe not a mistake but a gamble that hasn't worked out and is now actively hurting them if they wanted to acquire a final piece at the deadline. As an example for that amount they could've added another prospect and picked up a Boeser, Garland or Miller from Van to help with the playoff push, or they could've grabbed another defenseman, but the KK contract puts them up against the cap.

For both sides this seems like mistakes all around

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

In hindsight If we just kept the 1st and 3rd I’d have been thrilled about how this turned out. Is what it is

still love his personality and hopes he figures it out but identical ppg to his rookie season (kotka)

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

It isn't but for what the cost to acquire him was in Cap and Picks you to have to think that this was a mistake for the canes, maybe not a mistake but a gamble that hasn't worked out and is now actively hurting them if they wanted to acquire a final piece at the deadline. As an example for that amount they could've added another prospect and picked up a Boeser, Garland or Miller from Van to help with the playoff push, or they could've grabbed another defenseman, but the KK contract puts them up against the cap.

For both sides this seems like mistakes all around

His presence on the cap is not preventing much, imo. Carolina can get to ~$2.6 mil by waiving Smith once he gets healthy. Carrying substantial space late into the season has been devalued. 9 trades at last season's trade deadline involved retention. ~$2.6 mil is up to ~$5.2 mil (max retention) or ~$10.4 mil (double max retention). The Canes can trim on the edges of the roster too; Stepan and Bear are expiring and healthy scratches at full health (assuming a D acquisition).

I don't think there's much denial that this could turn out to be a mistake on the Carolina side. The contention has been to what extent. This topic has attracted the attention of a major, franchise-altering move. It's not. Carolina took a modest risk, probably modest reward gamble. A realistic worst case, an uneventful year that ends with him walking as a UFA, doesn't hurt the Canes in the way Habs fans want it to. Hence, he's not a whipping boy and no one is calling for Waddell's firing.

 

[jfhabs]

I'd take him back on the Habs, but at under 4M

I wonder if he'd be over Poehling/Evans on the depth chart at this point with the way this team is going and the direction they want to take. KK is anything but fast. His skating has been an issue since day one and he's shown next to no improvement since his draft year in that department. There are also accounts of the Habs asking him to work on it and him totally ignoring it, working on his upper body instead...

 

[jfhabs]

In hindsight If we just kept the 1st and 3rd I’d have been thrilled about how this turned out. Is what it is

still love his personality and hopes he figures it out but identical ppg to his rookie season

I'd wait to see Dvorak under St.Louis and perhaps next year too. Scenario makes it very hard to evaluate some of our (new) players this year.

 

[Colezuki]

His presence on the cap is not preventing much, imo. Carolina can get to ~$2.6 mil by waiving Smith once he gets healthy. Carrying substantial space late into the season has been devalued. 9 trades at last season's trade deadline involved retention. ~$2.6 mil is up to ~$5.2 mil (max retention) or ~$10.4 mil (double max retention). The Canes can trim on the edges of the roster too; Stepan and Bear are expiring and healthy scratches at full health (assuming a D acquisition).

I don't think there's much denial that this could turn out to be a mistake on the Carolina side. The contention has been to what extent. This topic has attracted the attention of a major, franchise-altering move. It's not. Carolina took a modest risk, probably modest reward gamble. A realistic worst case, an uneventful year that ends with him walking as a UFA, doesn't hurt the Canes in the way Habs fans want it to. Hence, he's not a whipping boy and no one is calling for Waddell's firing.

...?

I'm confused as to how you could have this take? For the oilers we all dunk on them because they never take the step forward and win it all and in a year the Canes have the best chance in probably a generation they gave away their best trade chip for that final piece and cap space to acquire a depth player who isn't working out. This isn't the thing that gets you fired it is the thing that prevents you from winning.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

...?

I'm confused as to how you could have this take? For the oilers we all dunk on them because they never take the step forward and win it all and in a year the Canes have the best chance in probably a generation they gave away their best trade chip for that final piece and cap space to acquire a depth player who isn't working out. This isn't the thing that gets you fired it is the thing that prevents you from winning.

Many cup winners have done little in season, bolstering the middle to lower end of the lineup in quality. Carolina has the assets to still do that; not having a 1st doesn't preclude them from making that type of move.

Year	Cup Winner	Notable Mid-season/Deadline Moves
05-06	Carolina	Recchi, Weight
06-07	Anaheim	May
07-08	Detroit	Stuart
08-09	Pittsburgh	Kunitz, Guerin
09-10	Chicago	Johnsson (Didn't play in the playoffs)
10-11	Boston	Kaberle, Kelly, Peverley
11-12	L.A.	Carter
13	Chicago	Handzus
13-14	L.A.	Gaborik
14-15	Chicago	Vermette, Desjardins
15-16	Pittsburgh	Daley, Hagelin, Schultz
16-17	Pittsburgh	Hainsey
17-18	Washington	Kempny
18-19	St. Louis	-
19-20	Tampa	Bogosion, Goodrow, Coleman
21	Tampa	Savard

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1st for a rental in bold

I'm reasonably confident that Carolina has the pieces to go on a deep run. The most important thing is that the best players on the team play like it in the playoffs.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

...?

I'm confused as to how you could have this take? For the oilers we all dunk on them because they never take the step forward and win it all and in a year the Canes have the best chance in probably a generation they gave away their best trade chip for that final piece and cap space to acquire a depth player who isn't working out. This isn't the thing that gets you fired it is the thing that prevents you from winning.

yea its funny - given the amount of over the top twitter messaging and ridiculous evaluations of kotka on here.

I don't get why Carolina refuses to develop him and are wasting another year of his supposed growth as a hockey player just like they all said the Habs organization did

its not fair to kotka he's ready to go release him Carolina stop holding him back

 

[Hunter368]

One KK extension thread is enough