Value of: Kotkaniemi extension

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don’t see Kotkaniemi doing more than 4 years on an extension. I don’t see the Canes wanting to do more than 4 million on an extension. 3 years x 4 seems about right. Maybe 4x4.

even if all the Kotkaniemi experts say he won’t agree to that, Canes can get a 2 year, 5 million club elected arbitration deal with qualifying him. Even then a 3 years around 35-40 points per is worth a late 1st and a 3rd.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Everything is fine for Carolina this season with the cap. Just going to be tight if they wish to add at the TDL, but can always make it work for a 3rd team giving up a mid round pick.
Started off slow because they had him on the Wing vs C. So, that experiment failed. So, if they don't keep him at C, I don't think he's as valuable a piece.

At the end of the day, it comes down to an extension. Do the 2 sides get one done?

Even if they discussed the parameters of one during their OS negotiations, nothing is enforceable by the NHL, and likely would be considered a CBA violation as they are not permitted to do that. So, if KK overperforms or underperforms the expectations, that could change the position of either side.

Aside from the money, I would expect KK to want some type of guarantee that he will remain at C.

Trochek is likely gone as our 2C next year so there is space in the top 6 and room for growth. Staal’s contract is up the year after so we’ll have to see where things are with him as well.

Necas is likely staying as a wing. Jarvis is unknown. Could be a wing or a C. Drury looks like he will be a good eventual 3C Staal replacement. Maybe 2C upside.

Bottom line is Canes will be losing some forwards or shifting roles in the next few years so needed to fill up the pipeline. Nino is another important forward who is likely gone next year as well. Kotkaniemi and other kids are gonna get their chance to be contributors.

 

[StreetHawk]

Trochek is likely gone as our 2C next year so there is space in the top 6 and room for growth. Staal’s contract is up the year after so we’ll have to see where things are with him as well.

Necas is likely staying as a wing. Jarvis is unknown. Could be a wing or a C. Drury looks like he will be a good eventual 3C Staal replacement. Maybe 2C upside.

Bottom line is Canes will be losing some forwards or shifting roles in the next few years so needed to fill up the pipeline. Nino is another important forward who is likely gone next year as well. Kotkaniemi and other kids are gonna get their chance to be contributors.

If KK is going to stay in Carolina and there are no assurances of remaining at C, then getting term makes sense. Don't want a down year in a contract year, even with arbitration rights over the next 3 seasons til he hits UFA, unless your AAV is high, which it is now and taking your QO is beneficial to you. he should want the comfort of term to guard against a change in his role.

He should not be taking a 1 year deal at this point. Should be at least 2 and really for him, with the type of leverage he has, should push for more term for security.

 

[Michoulicious]

With his arbitrations right and his current salary as they are, he'd be dumb to settle under anything lower than 4 millions. Might as well become a UFA right away.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Over it. I was actually happy it happen. The whole board trolled the Habs about the OS and now all i see is that it backfired for the Canes. What's to get over?
I know most won't admit to it being a bad move. The big win for the Canes that was running around the board just didn't pan out now did it.
All we heard was win-win situation for the Canes and lose-lose situation for the Habs.
Guess that turned out wrong too.

Cope harder

 

[StreetHawk]

With his arbitrations right and his current salary as they are, he'd be dumb to settle under anything lower than 4 millions. Might as well become a UFA right away.

Which makes it more likely that he should play out the season and see what his production is now that they moved him back to Center. The better his numbers, the more he can hold/push for his QO numbers. He could sign for less than his QO to gain security. Just a matter of the numbers.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

If KK is going to stay in Carolina and there are no assurances of remaining at C, then getting term makes sense. Don't want a down year in a contract year, even with arbitration rights over the next 3 seasons til he hits UFA, unless your AAV is high, which it is now and taking your QO is beneficial to you. he should want the comfort of term to guard against a change in his role.

He should not be taking a 1 year deal at this point. Should be at least 2 and really for him, with the type of leverage he has, should push for more term for security.

If he keeps playing well at C then he’ll be a C. Don’t worry about it so much

 

[LakeLivin]

Trochek is likely gone as our 2C next year so there is space in the top 6 and room for growth. Staal’s contract is up the year after so we’ll have to see where things are with him as well.

Necas is likely staying as a wing. Jarvis is unknown. Could be a wing or a C. Drury looks like he will be a good eventual 3C Staal replacement. Maybe 2C upside.

Bottom line is Canes will be losing some forwards or shifting roles in the next few years so needed to fill up the pipeline. Nino is another important forward who is likely gone next year as well. Kotkaniemi and other kids are gonna get their chance to be contributors.

It's nice that you tried, but I think you're spinning your wheels here. After having it explained so many times, it seems pretty clear that there are some fans that are unable to grasp the concept that a good portion of the $6.1m the Canes are paying JK is not for his play this season but an investment towards a possible longer term productive future with the Canes.

Like most investments there are certainly risks involved, but the Canes Committee did their math and thought the investment worthwhile. While most Canes fans are content with how things are looking at this point, only time will tell if JK re-signs for a reasonable amount, continues to develop, and the move pays off. I suspect that many who are calling it an abject failure at this point are just salty.

Note to the more rational Habs fans: I think it was the right move for the Habs not to match; situations aren't necessarily symmetrical between 2 teams. And I think the subsequent Dvorak deal is not all that relevant when evaluating the JK offer sheet.

 

[StreetHawk]

It's nice that you tried, but I think you're spinning your wheels here. After having it explained so many times, it seems pretty clear that there are some fans that are unable to grasp the concept that a good portion of the $6.1m the Canes are paying JK is not for his play this season but an investment towards a possible longer term productive future with the Canes.

Like most investments there are certainly risks involved, but the Canes Committee did their math and thought the investment worthwhile. While most Canes fans are content with how things are looking at this point, only time will tell if JK re-signs for a reasonable amount, continues to develop, and the move pays off. I suspect that many who are calling it an abject failure at this point are just salty.

Note to the more rational Habs fans: I think it was the right move for the Habs not to match; situations aren't necessarily symmetrical between 2 teams. And I think the subsequent Dvorak deal is not all that relevant when evaluating the JK offer sheet.

KK likely would not do a lower cap hit deal from Montreal. So if you factor that into it as well it would be his QO of $6.1 mill for the rest of his rfa years (even if you take him to arbitration it’s a max decrease of 15%) and you end up with a disgruntled player.

only logical course was to let him walk.

 

[BWJM]

My guess is 3 x 4.5m.

Carolina seems like a fantastic market to play in nowadays, same with Florida. Love to see it... now if only Arizona could take some notes.

 

[HabsAddict]

Santa told me that we lost a 60-70 point center and I should cry in my clam chowder soup...

Wait....does Santa lie?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Santa told me that we lost a 60-70 point center and I should cry in my clam chowder soup...

Wait....does Santa lie?

No. Keep on listening to the guy.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Santa told me that we lost a 60-70 point center and I should cry in my clam chowder soup...

Wait....does Santa lie?

Nope, he certainly isn't a 60-70 point center right now. Checked the boxscore and he got another point, not surprised the crying has continued.

 

[A Loyal Demidog]

I'm happy to see Kotkaniemi finally starting to break out. I always believed in him, and couldn't find a better place than Carolina for him to do so (winning mentality is a big deal). Go KK!

 

[Devonator]

He is starting to perform better for sure.....this will be an interesting contract that he gets.....

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Santa told me that we lost a 60-70 point center and I should cry in my clam chowder soup...

Wait....does Santa lie?

Fake news. Nobody told you you lost a 60-70 point center.

Given how the Habs are playing right now, you should cry in your soup though.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He is starting to perform better for sure.....this will be an interesting contract that he gets.....

My guess is that he gets a fair market contract with Carolina, or they let him go. I'll never say never, but will be surprised if they overpay him now. Sure, the 1 year offer sheet overpaid him but that was for 1 year.

I wasn't a big fan of the offersheet. I wasn't upset about giving up the picks or paying him $6M. It was more that I thought the Canes had a bigger need at wing and there were other options. I'll reserve judgement though.

 

[LaMasquerade]

Games 1-15 with Canes: 2+1
Games 16-30 with Canes: 5+7
(Last 5 games 1+7)

He's getting better. If he continues as a PPG player, I think 4.5M isn't out of question.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Games 1-15 with Canes: 2+1
Games 16-30 with Canes: 5+7
(Last 5 games 1+7)

He's getting better. If he continues as a PPG player, I think 4.5M isn't out of question.

First part of the season, RBA was giving him almost no ice time and shuffling him around on the wing to see who he had chemistry with. He wasn’t showing up on the scoresheet but honestly he wasn’t playing poorly. Just not being put in a situation to put up points. Then because of injuries and COVID taking out a bunch of players he was forced into a bigger role, playing Center and getting 15-17min of ice time and even a bit of pp2 time and he is producing.

He’s a weird skater for sure so I think that holds him back a bit with regards to being more up on the play but he seems to have good instincts, a snipe of a shot, and I think the most surprising we see out of him is willingness to play the body and get physical along the boards. He’s very noticeable there and he’s always around the net. Even on goals where he doesn’t get a point he is often mucking it up in front and in a good position or screening the goalie. Other than Staal and Nino we don’t have players who do that so it is very welcome. Nothing he’s doing recently is by fluke. He’s a hard worker from what he’s showing so far.

 

[spockBokk]

I think $4.5-$4.75M for 3-5yrs sounds just right.

 

[jfhabs]

Games 1-15 with Canes: 2+1
Games 16-30 with Canes: 5+7
(Last 5 games 1+7)

He's getting better. If he continues as a PPG player, I think 4.5M isn't out of question.

That's not what a PPG player is. It doesn't work like that

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

That's not what a PPG player is. It doesn't work like that

They said continue as a ppg player… not that Kotkaniemi would end the season ppg. [MOD]

 

[jfhabs]

They said continue as a ppg player… not that Kotkaniemi would end the season ppg. [MOD]

That's not how it works. You don't label a guy as PPG after 5 games, it's irrelevant.
The post I responded too was laughable. On one side the guy thinks there's a chance he finishes the year at a PPG pace (which is very doubtful) and then on the flip side KK would only accept 4.5M!?! Haha, can't have it both sides.

[MOD]

 

[jfhabs]

I think $4.5-$4.75M for 3-5yrs sounds just right.

Why would he sign that if he's confident he can become a regular top 6 player?

 

[LaMasquerade]

That's not what a PPG player is. It doesn't work like that

I said literally "If he continues as a PPG player...". [MOD]