Kopitar's next contract?

[Captain Ron]

Um what? Really? This is just very very overly optimistic for hoping to help the Kings cap situation. Kopitar should be starting at 12+ million per season based on Toews contract. I imagine Kings will start numbers you guys are saying. I think the middle ground will be more like 9.5-10.5 million over 8 years. Yes it takes him a little longer than Toews or Kane but that doesn't hugely effect his contract discussion, IMO. This is the going rate for top players in the new NHL, he's much better than Perry or Getzlaf. That's just life.

Honestly none of us truly know what is in Kopitar's head. But, you make it sound like Kopitar is looking at what Toews and Kane are making and then rubbing his hands together and saying "Mahahaha, now they will have to pay me ridiculous money in order to retain my services". If you asked him why the Kings won the Stanley Cup this year he is going to say it was because they had the right group of guys watching out for each other. He is not going to point to himself and take all of the credit. Basically when you ask for top 5 cash that is what you are saying to all of those around you. "I am the reason we got here and I am the reason we won".

If living through the Gretzky years taught me anything it is that having a group of high priced all stars does not make a championship caliber team. I am not saying he is not as good as those other guys, but in my opinion when you ask for that kind of money you put your own needs above those of the team. There are several players I would put in that category that play in the NHL. Kopitar is not one of them. I guess we will see next year who is right.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

So Kopitar is getting paid less in year 1 that Toews makes as an average? Really?

Just because the hawks bend over we should as well ? Both of them are over paid period imo. As stated earlier Kopitar has fired a agent for not working with the kings before . Kopitar has bought into the team concept. He is the last core piece to lock into place long term I honestly think that is a fair contract

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Honestly none of us truly know what is in Kopitar's head. But, you make it sound like Kopitar is looking at what Toews and Kane are making and then rubbing his hands together and saying "Mahahaha, now they will have to pay me ridiculous money in order to retain my services". If you asked him why the Kings won the Stanley Cup this year he is going to say it was because they had the right group of guys watching out for each other. He is not going to point to himself and take all of the credit. Basically when you ask for top 5 cash that is what you are saying to all of those around you. "I am the reason we got here and I am the reason we won".

If living through the Gretzky years taught me anything it is that having a group of high priced all stars does not make a championship caliber team. I am not saying he is not as good as those other guys, but in my opinion when you ask for that kind of money you put your own needs above those of the team. There are several players I would put in that category that play in the NHL. Kopitar is not one of them. I guess we will see next year who is right.

While I completely agree with you that neither of us can sit here and say what's in Kopitar's head I don't agree with you here. I grew up with Jonathan and I can say for a fact that he is certainly not the type sitting there when Getz/Fairy signed their extensions rubbing his hands saying "Mahahaha, now they will have to pay me ridiculous money in order to retain my services". Toews has also won 2 cups and has said the same as what you say Kopi might say.

There's more to it than straight greed or saying "I am the reason we got here and I am the reason we won". There's lots of pressure from the PA (which HATE stars taking less than worth) to making your living (it's easy to say from here what's 8 mil versus 10 mil but think that's still 2 million american dollars PER YEAR over 8 years).

It's just simply more complicated than him being either a greedy SOB demanding money or him being the ultimate team player and taking a discount. In reality anything less than 10.5 (based on Kopi vs Toews I'd say anything less than 11.25) over 8 years IS a discount based on the Toews set market.

 

[Herby]

Just because the hawks bend over we should as well ?

As opposed to losing a player like Kopitar? Absolutely.

Chicago paid market value for Toews and Kane, you can't compare them to Getzlaf an Perry because they have brought much more success to their franchise and they signed contracts 2-3 years later when the cap was higher.

There is no way the Kings are going to jerk around Kopitar, the best forward (by far) on two championship winning teams and probably the best player the franchise has ever drafted to save one or two million a year in cap space, if you want to save 1 or 2 million a year in cap space you trade Clifford and Lewis and roll with a couple of rookies, or you trade Stoll, or you trade Richards or you don't re-sign Greene. Plenty of ways to save cap space that make much more sense than not paying fair value to your franchise player.

 

[Captain Ron]

While I completely agree with you that neither of us can sit here and say what's in Kopitar's head I don't agree with you here. I grew up with Jonathan and I can say for a fact that he is certainly not the type sitting there when Getz/Fairy signed their extensions rubbing his hands saying "Mahahaha, now they will have to pay me ridiculous money in order to retain my services". Toews has also won 2 cups and has said the same as what you say Kopi might say.

There's more to it than straight greed or saying "I am the reason we got here and I am the reason we won". There's lots of pressure from the PA (which HATE stars taking less than worth) to making your living (it's easy to say from here what's 8 mil versus 10 mil but think that's still 2 million american dollars PER YEAR over 8 years).

It's just simply more complicated than him being either a greedy SOB demanding money or him being the ultimate team player and taking a discount. In reality anything less than 10.5 (based on Kopi vs Toews I'd say anything less than 11.25) over 8 years IS a discount based on the Toews set market.

I do not want to take anything away from Kopitar, because he is an elite player and deserves to be paid well for what he does. With that said I will say that the Kings success over the last few seasons have been more from overall team chemistry than from individual efforts by Kopitar or any other player for that matter. I believe that the Blackhawks owe more of their success to Kane and Toews than the Kings do to Kopitar. This is apparent when you realize the Kings were able to win the Stanley Cup and get very little offensive production out of Kopitar in the finals. Would the Blackhawks have been able to win either of their cups without the offensive contributions of Kane or Toews in the finals? Even with the market set by Kane and Toews I do not see Kopitar handcuffing Lombardi and the Kings into making him one of the top paid players in the NHL. He is just not that kind of guy. But, we will see what happens. There is still another season of hockey to be played before this is really an issue. And depending on what happens Kopitar might drastically decrease or increase his value.

 

[Chain]

While I completely agree with you that neither of us can sit here and say what's in Kopitar's head I don't agree with you here. I grew up with Jonathan and I can say for a fact that he is certainly not the type sitting there when Getz/Fairy signed their extensions rubbing his hands saying "Mahahaha, now they will have to pay me ridiculous money in order to retain my services". Toews has also won 2 cups and has said the same as what you say Kopi might say.

There's more to it than straight greed or saying "I am the reason we got here and I am the reason we won". There's lots of pressure from the PA (which HATE stars taking less than worth) to making your living (it's easy to say from here what's 8 mil versus 10 mil but think that's still 2 million american dollars PER YEAR over 8 years).

It's just simply more complicated than him being either a greedy SOB demanding money or him being the ultimate team player and taking a discount. In reality anything less than 10.5 (based on Kopi vs Toews I'd say anything less than 11.25) over 8 years IS a discount based on the Toews set market.

What makes you think this?

 

[HYORI 1963]

Um what? Really? This is just very very overly optimistic for hoping to help the Kings cap situation. Kopitar should be starting at 12+ million per season based on Toews contract. I imagine Kings will start numbers you guys are saying. I think the middle ground will be more like 9.5-10.5 million over 8 years. Yes it takes him a little longer than Toews or Kane but that doesn't hugely effect his contract discussion, IMO. This is the going rate for top players in the new NHL, he's much better than Perry or Getzlaf. That's just life.

Hey, I definitely understand where you're coming from. However, my perspective is definitely more of a gut call than a logical one. I just don't see Kopi wanting to be paid like you're suggesting. Honestly, knowing Kopi, the way that I think I do, I don't think Kopi would be comfortable making THAT much money over his teammates. Kings are just a different type of team/organization than the rest of the nhl imo. There's an understanding and camaraderie amongst the players that goes so much deeper. So, while logically, your numbers probably makes more sense, I just don't see Kopi being that selfish.

 

[HYORI 1963]

As opposed to losing a player like Kopitar? Absolutely.

Do you really think that Kopi will want to play for another team? If so, please tell me which team you think he'll play for?

 

[Holden Caulfield]

What makes you think this?

It's pretty common knowledge. PA hates "hometown" discounts it hurts everyone elses value. To be fair that is less of an issue now with linkage.

 

[theMajor]

Do you really think that Kopi will want to play for another team? If so, please tell me which team you think he'll play for?

i dont think he will ever play for another team, but that doesnt mean he wont get market value from Dean on his next contract...and i'm sure Dean will be more than happy to pay Kopi whatever he wants.

 

[Captain Ron]

As I stated before I am a fan of Kopitar. But, in reality he has no tangible evidence to warrant being paid top dollars in the NHL. Both Kane and Toews have awards and/or have been in the top 10 in offensive categories that would justify their claims to being some of the top paid players in the league. All Kopitar has is being a very good player on a great team. If Kopitar had similar numbers on a non cup winning team most people would say he deserves no more than $8 million a year. So, should he make an additional $2+ million a year because Lombardi surrounded him with talented team mates?

 

[agentfouser]

Do you really think that Kopi will want to play for another team? If so, please tell me which team you think he'll play for?

If Lombardi low-balls him with a $7.5-8 million AAV contract, he'll play for whichever team offers him $12 million/year for five years.

Look man, if you or anyone else want to convince anyone that Kopitar will take such a dramatic paycut, you've got to come up with more than "I just really feel like Kopitar loves the Kings so much that he'll take less money." That's essentially the argument that's going on here: a set of posters just really "feels" that Kopitar doesn't want that much money, presumably because those people really don't want Kopitar to want that much. Another group of posters is pointing to the very real numbers for people like Toews, an excellent and logical empirical comparison.

There's no question in my mind which position is more convincing.

 

[agentfouser]

As I stated before I am a fan of Kopitar. But, in reality he has no tangible evidence to warrant being paid top dollars in the NHL. Both Kane and Toews have awards and/or have been in the top 10 in offensive categories that would justify their claims to being some of the top paid players in the league. All Kopitar has is being a very good player on a great team. If Kopitar had similar numbers on a non cup winning team most people would say he deserves no more than $8 million a year. So, should he make an additional $2+ million a year because Lombardi surrounded him with talented team mates?

While I agree that Toews can point to individual awards (Conn Smyth, Selke) to make a better argument for slightly more money than Kopitar, you're really selling Anze short with this post. He's obviously the single best forward on the team, and on a par with Doughty as the best player. He has led the team in pretty much every offensive category for years now, and has absolutely stellar possession numbers. He and Doughty collectively form the engine that makes this team run, and he's led this team to two Stanley Cups in three years. I'd say that alone qualifies him as an elite player in the NHL, and indeed the world.

 

[HYORI 1963]

If Lombardi low-balls him with a $7.5-8 million AAV contract, he'll play for whichever team offers him $12 million/year for five years.

Look man, if you or anyone else want to convince anyone that Kopitar will take such a dramatic paycut, you've got to come up with more than "I just really feel like Kopitar loves the Kings so much that he'll take less money." That's essentially the argument that's going on here: a set of posters just really "feels" that Kopitar doesn't want that much money, presumably because those people really don't want Kopitar to want that much. Another group of posters is pointing to the very real numbers for people like Toews, an excellent and logical empirical comparison.

There's no question in my mind which position is more convincing.

Well, there's ZERO doubt in my mind that Kopi will remain a king. Just like I had ZERO doubt about Gabby re-signing here, while you and others had your doubts. So, Kopi signing somewhere else for more money, is just nonsense.

Now, as for the AAV, like I said, that's just a gut call, not logic and nothing empirical. Oh, and I'm not trying to sway or convince anyone to change their mind. I'm just putting in my 2 cents worth.

 

[Captain Ron]

While I agree that Toews can point to individual awards (Conn Smyth, Selke) to make a better argument for slightly more money than Kopitar, you're really selling Anze short with this post. He's obviously the single best forward on the team, and on a par with Doughty as the best player. He has led the team in pretty much every offensive category for years now, and has absolutely stellar possession numbers. He and Doughty collectively form the engine that makes this team run, and he's led this team to two Stanley Cups in three years. I'd say that alone qualifies him as an elite player in the NHL, and indeed the world.

I am not trying to sell anyone short. I am trying to be objective. There are 30 teams in the NHL and each of those teams has someone leading their team in offense. But, do those players deserve to be one if the top 5 paid players because they lead their team in offense? Obviously that cannot happen because it would be difficult to pay 30 players top 5 money unless they all made the exact same. The only thing I am trying to point out is that salary is an individual accolade. Not a team based award. So, if you only went by individual accomplishments Kopitar is not worth the money that some say he deserves. It is like some of the replies I am seeing on the Malkin vs Kopitar thread. I think some Kings fans are letting the Cup cloud their judgement just a tad.

 

[damacles1156]

Would anyone pay Patrice Bergeron 10.5 or 11 million ?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I still don't think Kopitar's AAV cracks 10 million. The last two years of his contract ARE significant. 35+ players are a rare breed and anywhere beyond 35 are considered the twilight years of any player's career.

Do I think it will make monstrous difference in regards to full contract value? No. Do I think it could ultimately lower the AAV? Absolutely.

While the Kings are not going to play hardball with Kopitar, Lombardi is not going to just sign off on the first contract put in front of him.

Bottom line is that Lombardi will not sign a deal he feels handicaps the team. That goes against everything he stands for and every step he's taken to build this franchise. The only question left is at what number does a player of Kopitar's importance transition from "worth it" to "hurting the team." And we can armchair GM all we want, but only Lombard knows the answer to that.

 

[damacles1156]

Also why is everyone comparing Toews/Kopitar ? Toews is a better Center and younger.

Toews got 10.5 cause the Hawks have him locked up through his prime years.

 

[Herby]

Toews is a whopping 8 months younger than Kopitar and it is very much up for debate on who is better.

Lets see how many points Toews would have put up playing in LA's defensive system with wingers like Kyle Calder and Ryan Smyth.

Kopitar is a superstar, and everyone in the hockey world knows it, listening to some Hawks people on the radio before the series this year everyone knows what kind of player Kopitar is, not many players control the 200x85 like Kopitar does.

 

[damacles1156]

Toews is a whopping 8 months younger than Kopitar and it is very much up for debate on who is better.

Lets see how many points Toews would have put up playing in LA's defensive system with wingers like Kyle Calder and Ryan Smyth.

Kopitar is a superstar, and everyone in the hockey world knows it, listening to some Hawks people on the radio before the series this year everyone knows what kind of player Kopitar is, not many players control the 200x85 like Kopitar does.

Toews is just as good at controlling the ice. Some nights I would put him even better at it than Kopitar.

Toews is world class Center.

 

[Herby]

Toews is just as good at controlling the ice. Some nights I would put him even better at it than Kopitar.

Toews is world class Center.

I agree he is a world class center, but so is Kopitar, and they are pretty much the same age with similiar career accomplishments (can't blame Kopi for being from Slovenia and not Canada).

The market has been set for Kopitar, that is all some of us are saying and I again ask anyone here (not you dmac) who thinks the Hawks drastically overpaid for Toews, what do you do if a year from now Kopitar says he wants $80m over 8 years, do you guys honestly let him walk rather than sign him to that "ridiculous, crippling" contract as those people have described the Toews/Kane extensions?

 

[damacles1156]

As opposed to losing a player like Kopitar? Absolutely.

Chicago paid market value for Toews and Kane, you can't compare them to Getzlaf an Perry because they have brought much more success to their franchise and they signed contracts 2-3 years later when the cap was higher.

There is no way the Kings are going to jerk around Kopitar, the best forward (by far) on two championship winning teams and probably the best player the franchise has ever drafted to save one or two million a year in cap space, if you want to save 1 or 2 million a year in cap space you trade Clifford and Lewis and roll with a couple of rookies, or you trade Stoll, or you trade Richards or you don't re-sign Greene. Plenty of ways to save cap space that make much more sense than not paying fair value to your franchise player.

No one's going to jerk Kopitar around, that's hyperbole just like the Gabo contracts some of you guys were throwing around.

Kopitar will receive a fair offer from the Kings, that fits the Kings salary structure.

He will either accept it or move on, and chase League Max.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Also why is everyone comparing Toews/Kopitar ? Toews is a better Center and younger.

Toews got 10.5 cause the Hawks have him locked up through his prime years.

What do you call at the very least the first 4 years of the deal Kopi would get? (age 29-32) Even if you think Toews is better (and I agree), you're gonna have to pay him at least $12M in each of those 4 years, considering that Toews makes $53.4M over the first 4 years of his deal.

 

[damacles1156]

What do you call at the very least the first 4 years of the deal Kopi would get? (age 29-32) Even if you think Toews is better (and I agree), you're gonna have to pay him at least $12M in each of those 4 years, considering that Toews makes $53.4M over the first 4 years of his deal.

I don't consider 29-32 prime years anymore. That's personal though. It seems over the last decade Hockey players best years have come 24 to 27 , then they start to drop off.

Or it could be, they start to round their game out more, and not focus on putting up points.

Sort of like How J-Dub is not a 30G anymore, but he is a fantastic all around player.

 

[Herby]

So again, those of you wildly against Kopitar getting a contract similar to Toews. What is the Kings play if he does ask for an identical contract to Toews when Kopi and the Kings begin to negotiate next July. Would you then look to trade Kopitar or just let him play out his contract and hit UFA and hope no one else offers that much (goodluck with that).

I'm sorry but both ideas seem incredibly stupid to me.