Toggle sidebar

Kopitar; For or Against a trade if it comes to it?

In 3-4 years I still see Kopitar leading the Kings in ice time among forwards and in points, and I don't see how the Kings could end up benefiting in moving him because I don't see them getting anything in return that would be an improvement over Kopitar.

As witnessed with the Kovalchuk and Hossa trades, the team moving those players wound up with the worse package and came out as losers. I can't remember the last time a big name UFA was moved where the team trading said player actually came out on the winning end and got better for the foreseeable future as a result of the trade. And that isn't going to start with Kopitar either because I don't think Lombardi will be foolish enough to let go of a top 5-7 center. Players like him don't come around often.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
In 3-4 years I still see Kopitar leading the Kings in ice time among forwards and in points, and I don't see how the Kings could end up benefiting in moving him because I don't see them getting anything in return that would be an improvement over Kopitar.

As witnessed with the Kovalchuk and Hossa trades, the team moving those players wound up with the worse package and came out as losers. I can't remember the last time a big name UFA was moved where the team trading said player actually came out on the winning end and got better for the foreseeable future as a result of the trade. And that isn't going to start with Kopitar either because I don't think Lombardi will be foolish enough to let go of a top 5-7 center. Players like him don't come around often.
Click to expand...

Not sure I see Kopitar leading the Kings in points still in 3-4 years. He damned near didn't do it this season. Carter had a better season than Kopitar IMO. I could see Kopitar being a 55-60 point player in 3 years. He is just far too passive in the offensive zone. He will be a dominant pivot in the neutral zone and defensive zone for many years though, because he has good hockey sense.

I don't think the Kings benefit immediately by moving Kopitar. I think Dean has to explore all of his options though. There may not be a deal out there that would be worth moving Kopitar. You never know until you ask.

I think a high-AAV deal hurts the Kings almost as much as trading him. A lot depends on the return, the age of the players, and their contracts. The team involved in the deal doesn't have to necessarily have the center the Kings would be looking for either. If the trade left the Kings blueline overstocked, another deal for a center could be made using surplus assets.
 
KINGS17 said:
You act like the Kings wouldn't get any good players back in a trade. Dean isn't going to let Kopitar just walk.

An 8-year deal worth $72M+ is ridiculous, and GMs are starting to realize that these retirement contracts can't be handed out like candy if the cap is going to be stagnant. We already have one, possilby two untradeable contracts in Brown and Richards, sure lets add another one in 3 or 4 years.
Click to expand...

Of course they'll get good players. They won't get a Kopitar. Without him, the offense goes down and its already underachieving regularly (minus the playoffs for some reason).

The Kings will get back a largely future based package. At best they get a Rob Blake return, of one good current player (Deader) a regular player (Miller) and then prospects and picks. Teams that are trading for a UFA to be Kopitar aren't gutting their current roster for him. They are likely using him as a rental and hoping they can sign him.

Look at the returns of guys like Kovalchuk, Hossa, etc. They typically don't return elite current players. We'll get a good body back, but it won't be someone who can hold a candle to Kopitar.

And that's all assuming LA isn't in the playoff picture. If they are, you can bet your ass they'll keep Kopitar for the playoffs and then afterwards they would be losing him for nothing. DL isn't going to sell out on a playoff berth with this team that has perpetually underachieved in the regular season and then went on a cup run once the post-season starts.
 
In such a scenario, Kopitar wouldn't fetch much. He'd only be a trade-deadline rental, no way you could get comparative value back.
 
GoalieCallie said:
In such a scenario, Kopitar wouldn't fetch much. He'd only be a trade-deadline rental, no way you could get comparative value back.
Click to expand...

It's hard to argue he'd get much more than Kovalchuk. Yeah, he should get a touch more due to being a centre but not a ton more. He was a 50 goal threat and not quite 27 when he was traded. Atlanta traded him and a 2nd and a depth player for Johnny Oduya, Nicklas Bergfors, Patrice Cormier a 1st and a 2nd

That's not a package with "good players."

If DL has to trade Kopitar, which I doubt he will, the return will be less than what people expect.
 
Kopitar has a $6.8 million cap hit. For most teams, they can't afford that at the start of the season so if he trades him earlier in the season he reduces the number of teams that can afford him and increases the odds he'll have to take salary back to make a deal work. Not to mention he'd be effectively giving up on a cup run, which he won't do a few months after trading some futures for one year of Lucic.
 
kingsfan said:
Kopitar has a $6.8 million cap hit. For most teams, they can't afford that at the start of the season so if he trades him earlier in the season he reduces the number of teams that can afford him and increases the odds he'll have to take salary back to make a deal work. Not to mention he'd be effectively giving up on a cup run, which he won't do a few months after trading some futures for one year of Lucic.
Click to expand...

The Kings would want a package of players that would be close to that cap hit. Lots of teams have cap space. Regarding Lucic, plans change all the time. I don't think Dean is going to get bent over in this negotiation. Eight years and $72M+ would be getting bent over considering the expected growth in the salary cap.
 
a five year deal at an agreeable cap hit is ****ing dream land, guys. There's no way that's happening. A five year deal will be a 10 million AAV at the bare minimum. I don't understand why there's so much debate about this. We're already looking at a rebuild in several years. Detroit didn't balk when it came time to lock up their top players. Guys like Kopitar and Doughty get their money. Period. Trading away Kopitar may as well come with gutting the roster, because we're starting over. Carter is only so effective in his position because of Kopitar and the assignments he draws.

I understand not wanting to sign the guy to a ****ing 12 mill AAV, but five years? 8 million? Let's get real here. That's not happening.
 
KINGS17 said:
The Kings would want a package of players that would be close to that cap hit. Lots of teams have cap space. Regarding Lucic, plans change all the time. I don't think Dean is going to get bent over in this negotiation. Eight years and $72M+ would be getting bent over considering the expected growth in the salary cap.
Click to expand...

What they want and what they'll get is two totally different things. There is no precedence for a UFA to be like Kopitar getting traded for a package of players (I assume you to be referring to a package of established players, not prospects).

And no, a lot of teams don't have cap space, not $6.8 million anyway.

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/

Now obviously some things will change from this list depending on who gets waived at camp but generally speaking this is a close estimate to how much cap space each team has available at the moment and that won't change much heading into training camp.

11 teams have enough cap space to take him on. Of that, not all will take him due to various reasons like an internal salary cap (Arizona) or they aren't really cup contenders and wouldn't spend the assets needed to get him (Colorado).

If you assume DL wouldn't trade Kopitar to a team like Anaheim either, then the list gets narrowed further.

The number of teams that can take him on now is small and it won't grow unless teams are willing to trade away pieces of their core to clear the cap space to do so, which seems unlikely given they'd be trading for Kopitar largely to augment the current team.
 
Trade Kopi, put all our eggs in the Mike Richards rehabilitation basket.
Do it.
(Abstained from voting as somehow you missed this option?)
 
It's unlikely Kopitar would return much in a trade.

Moving him for a package of mediocre players or picks/prospects so the Kings can save ~3M in cap space 4 years from now just doesn't make any sense.
 
johnjm22 said:
It's unlikely Kopitar would return much in a trade.

Moving him for a package of mediocre players or picks/prospects so the Kings can save ~3M in cap space 4 years from now just doesn't make any sense.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. In this scenario, Kopitar is going to be a UFA and potentially a rental to some team trading for him. He would almost certainly only bring futures and not a very good roster player who could help the Kings win now. The reality is that the Kings would be dealing from a position of weakness and the options get limited when you consider that the team has to pay him the salary he wants or risk him going to free agency where someone will absolutely pay him. It's a fantasy that the Kings would somehow trade Kopitar for equal or better talent that can contribute now. Not gonna happen.
 
You know where I stand, but you guys would be making the biggest mistake imaginable by trading away a generational center/player like kopitar. He is a player who you build around, not trade around. If you guys trade him, you will never get back what he is worth...and that would be a shame.
 
Papaspud said:
You know where I stand, but you guys would be making the biggest mistake imaginable by trading away a generational center/player like kopitar. He is a player who you build around, not trade around. If you guys trade him, you will never get back what he is worth...and that would be a shame.
Click to expand...

I shudder the thought of the Kings trading for the next Niclas Bergfors or Angelo Esposito or Matt Zultek or Dave Steckel or Jared Aulin.

Those are the top prospects that were involved in trades involving the likes of Kovalchuk, Hossa, Gretzky and Blake.

There is no way the Kings will get equal value for Kopitar and improve and continue to contend for a Cup. The day they move him is the day they throw in the towel in terms of chasing the Cup.
 
Kings weren't even a playoff team last year WITH Kopitar. What makes people think they would be one without him? They wouldn't. They'd be the worst thing of all - a middle pack team with no aspiration for a Cup or a top pick.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
I shudder the thought of the Kings trading for the next Niclas Bergfors or Angelo Esposito or Matt Zultek or Dave Steckel or Jared Aulin.

Those are the top prospects that were involved in trades involving the likes of Kovalchuk, Hossa, Gretzky and Blake.

There is no way the Kings will get equal value for Kopitar and improve and continue to contend for a Cup. The day they move him is the day they throw in the towel in terms of chasing the Cup.
Click to expand...

I'd like to think that DL and Co would do better at picking prospects to target than GM's like Taylor and Don Waddell. Waddell was one of the least successful GM's ever.
 
Like you've said, addition by subtraction.

Would we be a better team without Kopi? Of course not. Can we still make the playoffs without him? Definitely.
 
HYORI 1963 said:
Like you've said, addition by subtraction.

Would we be a better team without Kopi? Of course not. Can we still make the playoffs without him? Definitely.
Click to expand...

I would rather slightly overpay Kopitar long term and take the chance making the playoffs with him, than save cap space and scramble to replace him and try to make the playoffs without him.

Of course the Kings CAN make the playoffs without Kopitar. But the chances of being successful with him are higher.
 
King'sPawn said:
I would rather slightly overpay Kopitar long term and take the chance making the playoffs with him, than save cap space and scramble to replace him and try to make the playoffs without him.

Of course the Kings CAN make the playoffs without Kopitar. But the chances of being successful with him are higher.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%.
 
Kings offense is already garbage and you want to take 70(ish) points out of it? They'd be the first team to finish outside of the top 30 in offense in a 30 team league.

You guys are way too positive. Kings wouldn't crack 85 points without Kopitar let alone sniff the playoffs. You would have Shore or Lewis lining up against the best 2Cs in the league? What a disaster.
 
Reclamation Project said:
Kings offense is already garbage and you want to take 70(ish) points out of it? They'd be the first team to finish outside of the top 30 in offense in a 30 team league.

You guys are way too positive. Kings wouldn't crack 85 points without Kopitar let alone sniff the playoffs. You would have Shore or Lewis lining up against the best 2Cs in the league? What a disaster.
Click to expand...

Remember the success they had in the playoffs against San Jose in 2011 with Kopitar out of the lineup?
 
joe11.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom