Kopitar; For or Against a trade if it comes to it?

[GoalieCallie]

I don't think Dean will wait until the trade deadline.

In this case, Kopitar would be worth even less, since you wouldn't even have the "desperate team willing to overpay for a last gasp chance at the playoffs" factor going on.

 

[KINGS17]

In this case, Kopitar would be worth even less, since you wouldn't even have the "desperate team willing to overpay for a last gasp chance at the playoffs" factor going on.

So it doesn't matter what they do, it's just bend over and sign him for 8 years and $72M+ and watch him steal around $20M+. Baloney!

His value is higher now on the trade market than it would be if he was purely a rental. Dean could also allow any potential trade partner to negotiate with Kopitar's agent pre-trade.

I'll say this for Kopitar, if he signs the 8-year, big-AAV contract with the Kings he better bust his ass, and he better keep the team in cup contention. I don't want to hear any more quotes out of him where he says no one player has to be great if everyone is doing their job. No more 8-week long winter naps. No more passive play in the offensive zone.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So it doesn't matter what they do, it's just bend over and sign him for 8 years and $72M+ and watch him steal around $20M+. Baloney!

His value is higher now on the trade market than it would be if he was purely a rental. Dean could also allow any potential trade partner to negotiate with Kopitar's agent pre-trade.

I'll say this for Kopitar, if he signs the 8-year, big-AAV contract with the Kings he better bust his ass, and he better keep the team in cup contention. I don't want to hear any more quotes out of him where he says no one player has to be great if everyone is doing their job. No more 8-week long winter naps. No more passive play in the offensive zone.

The suggestion that he hasn't been busting his ass is baloney.

 

[KINGS17]

The suggestion that he hasn't been busting his ass is baloney.

C'mon Brad, he is a fine player and gives a good effort most of the time. He takes plenty (more than you would expect from your best forward) nights off in the offensive zone in November, December, and January. He isn't busting his ass when this happens. How many times did we see in GDTs last year where people were wondering if Kopitar even crossed the opponent's blue line? To say he busts his ass is fanboy talk. Every player has slumps and bad games, but Kopitar has stretches of several bad weeks offensively.

Does Kopitar bust his ass in the off season? Is he near the top of the performance charts when it comes to conditioning among his peers, or is he getting by with the gifts of superior size and ability that he was given?

People think Kopitar would score a lot more points in a less structured system. People should wonder how many points Kopitar would put up for the Kings if he applied himself in the offensive zone more often.

No one is saying Kopitar is a lousy player, but when people are throwing around the kind of AAV and term that are being discussed, expectations are high and rightfully so. My disdain for these types of deals just isn't one for Kopitar. I think Tampa Bay would be stupid to give Stamkos a blank check as well. There is a new reality with the salary cap, and players and their agents better get used to it, at least for a while. Yzerman is a smart GM he isn't going to give Stamkos whatever he wants, and Dean isn't going to give Kopitar whatever he wants.

 

[johnjm22]

C'mon Brad, he is a fine player and gives a good effort most of the time. He takes plenty (more than you would expect from your best forward) nights off in the offensive zone in November, December, and January. He isn't busting his ass when this happens. How many times did we see in GDTs last year where people were wondering if Kopitar even crossed the opponent's blue line? To say he busts his ass is fanboy talk. Every player has slumps and bad games, but Kopitar has stretches of several bad weeks offensively.

Does Kopitar bust his ass in the off season? Is he near the top of the performance charts when it comes to conditioning among his peers, or is he getting by with the gifts of superior size and ability that he was given?

People think Kopitar would score a lot more points in a less structured system. People should wonder how many points Kopitar would put up for the Kings if he applied himself in the offensive zone more often.

No one is saying Kopitar is a lousy player, but when people are throwing around the kind of AAV and term that are being discussed, expectations are high and rightfully so.

Every player in the NHL is inconsistent offensively. Jamie Benn led the league last year in points (87), and there was many nights where he was indivisible. The same can be said for Stamkos, Crosby, or anyone else.

That's just how it is. This isn't a video game. The competition in the NHL is very tight an no man is capable of being a force every single game.

The Kings will pay Kopitar to continue to be what he already is for the next few years, and part of the payment is ~9M/year even when he's well into his 30's.

 

[KINGS17]

An interesting analysis from an offensive production standpoint. Note that if Kopitar doesn't pick it up offensively with more goal scoring, he will be approaching David Backes territory when it comes to offense.

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-...-advanced-stats-to-classify-nhl-center-types/

 

[KINGS17]

Every player in the NHL is inconsistent offensively. Jamie Benn led the league last year in points (87), and there was many nights where he was indivisible. The same can be said for Stamkos, Crosby, or anyone else.

That's just how it is. This isn't a video game. The competition in the NHL is very tight an no man is capable of being a force every single game.

The Kings will pay Kopitar to continue to be what he already is for the next few years, and part of the payment is ~9M/year even when he's well into his 30's.

This is just BS. It's the kind of response that occurs whenever "fear of losing Kopitar" creeps into the heads of people that can't imagine life without him. Kopitar is a great player, but he has many shortcomings that require that the Kings surround him with top-notch talent. That top-notch talent doesn't come cheap, and Kopitar's cap hit should be adjusted accordingly.

And yes the extra $1M-$2M AAV and extra 3 years on the term matter.

 

[Choralone]

Give Kopitar what he wants. Make-a the pasta. Make it.

 

[Telos]

Doesn't matter if they can't afford to keep him (even though they can), they certainly can't afford to lose him. Sounds like the negotiations are going normally. Lombardi wasn't in the same ballpark with a lot of players, including Doughty. They'll get something done. Don't give him the farm, but despite lackluster numbers, he is going to get paid no matter what.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

An interesting analysis from an offensive production standpoint. Note that if Kopitar doesn't pick it up offensively with more goal scoring, he will be approaching David Backes territory when it comes to offense.

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-...-advanced-stats-to-classify-nhl-center-types/

Question for you, obviously hyperbolic, but I think you'll get the point: would you be disappointed if Kopitar had a 5 goal, 85 assist season?

C'mon Brad, he is a fine player and gives a good effort most of the time. He takes plenty (more than you would expect from your best forward) nights off in the offensive zone in November, December, and January. He isn't busting his ass when this happens. How many times did we see in GDTs last year where people were wondering if Kopitar even crossed the opponent's blue line? To say he busts his ass is fanboy talk. Every player has slumps and bad games, but Kopitar has stretches of several bad weeks offensively.

Questioning a player from game to game when he's slumping is one thing. Kopitar is literally one of the most consistent players in the game. I don't even know how you're suggesting he's not busting his ass when he plays so many hard minutes so many games a year. Suggesting he doesn't give a good effort is pretty insulting imo there's plenty of reasons he might not be scoring.

Does Kopitar bust his ass in the off season? Is he near the top of the performance charts when it comes to conditioning among his peers, or is he getting by with the gifts of superior size and ability that he was given?

I don't know, and neither do you.

From what we've seen in the past, he beasts out in the offseason. From what Brown and Kopitar have suggested this offseason, and it makes sense but I imagine you'll call it an excuse, guys have been spending their time getting back to square one instead of getting better due to going deep repeatedly.

People think Kopitar would score a lot more points in a less structured system. People should wonder how many points Kopitar would put up for the Kings if he applied himself in the offensive zone more often.

I think your expectations of him are maybe too high, but aside from this last season, what does that mean? Very abstract comment. Take it to the net more?

No one is saying Kopitar is a lousy player, but when people are throwing around the kind of AAV and term that are being discussed, expectations are high and rightfully so. My disdain for these types of deals just isn't one for Kopitar. I think Tampa Bay would be stupid to give Stamkos a blank check as well. There is a new reality with the salary cap, and players and their agents better get used to it, at least for a while. Yzerman is a smart GM he isn't going to give Stamkos whatever he wants, and Dean isn't going to give Kopitar whatever he wants.

I mean, ultimately I agree, and we've chatted about this at length, but you're starting to get aggressively abstract and speculative in your premises.

Edit: I also didn't get a chance to look at the article yet. I will. I just don't like the idea of equating 'production' with simply goal scoring. You put 3 30-40 goal scorers on one line...are they all gonna pot 30? What happens?

 

[KINGS17]

I don't know, and neither do you.

From what we've seen in the past, he beasts out in the offseason. From what Brown and Kopitar have suggested this offseason, and it makes sense but I imagine you'll call it an excuse, guys have been spending their time getting back to square one instead of getting better due to going deep repeatedly.

Ah, but we do know that Dean has repeatedly said that Kopitar and Doughty are not in top-notch condition compared to other players on the team when they show up for camp. It must be nice to be able to get by on natural ability.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Ah, but we do know that Dean has repeatedly said that Kopitar and Doughty are not in top-notch condition compared to other players on the team when they show up for camp. It must be nice to be able to get by on natural ability.

http://lakingsinsider.com/2015/06/03/training-wheels-are-off-for-experienced-kings-lombardi-says/

Come on.

"They’ve never been at the top of our list in terms of conditioning, and I think that could be the first step for these guys to say, ‘Ok, it’s my turn.’ With these guys, we shouldn’t have to enforce that anymore. That’s kind of the way we look at this. The training wheels are off, it’s your show.”"

...is a far cry from getting by on natural ability alone.

I'm as harsh as anyone for wanting these guys (particularly Doughty) to be at their physical peak but to talk about guys who have led the team (and the league!) in icetime (and scoring for years) as if they are anything but elite athletes is just messed up.

What are your expectations for Kopitar if he gets an 8-year, 9-million a year contract? Because I'd be perfectly okay if he continues being a 70-80 point player with all his other attributes.

 

[KINGS17]

http://lakingsinsider.com/2015/06/03/training-wheels-are-off-for-experienced-kings-lombardi-says/

Come on.

"They’ve never been at the top of our list in terms of conditioning, and I think that could be the first step for these guys to say, ‘Ok, it’s my turn.’ With these guys, we shouldn’t have to enforce that anymore. That’s kind of the way we look at this. The training wheels are off, it’s your show.”"

...is a far cry from getting by on natural ability alone.

I'm as harsh as anyone for wanting these guys (particularly Doughty) to be at their physical peak but to talk about guys who have led the team (and the league!) in icetime (and scoring for years) as if they are anything but elite athletes is just messed up.

What are your expectations for Kopitar if he gets an 8-year, 9-million a year contract? Because I'd be perfectly okay if he continues being a 70-80 point player with all his other attributes.

Do this for all 8 years and it's fine, but you and I both know that's not going to happen. We have already seen the preview of the other side of the mountain for Kopitar last season. Yes, Kopitar and Doughty are great athletes, but they are not in elite condition. Don't take my word for it, take Dean's word. How much better could they be? If they aren't in elite condition, then they must be getting by to some degree on natural ability.

What do you think he should be making over the next 8 years if his production is around 60 points a season, and he isn't a high "plus" player?

I hope I'm wrong. I hope Kopitar comes in this year and kicks ass, and continues to do so for the length of his contract, but the odds are really stacked against it, and you know that's all I am saying. With the economic realities that exist in the world today, the salary cap is not going to grow at its previous rate, if at all, and the Kings should act accordingly. Kopitar and his agents should adjust their contract demands accordingly as well.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Do this for all 8 years and it's fine, but you and I both know that's not going to happen.

We don't know that, though. And Kopitar has been so uber-consistent from season to season that it wouldn't truly been that shocking; I mean, even if the Kings were to be terrible, Kopitar would HAVE to score more like early in his career to the detriment of his D probably.

I'm with you on the risks but you have to acknowledge uncertainty in the positive direction as well. And I personally still think he'll be a 60+ point scorer at 35 so it's easier for me to feel decent about it, I think, but I think we ALL have to acknowledge that Kopitar is about to get paid for what he HAS done vs. what he WILL do. I know you don't agree with that philosophy in a cap era but it is reality because the alternative is worse.

 

[regulate]

Every player in the NHL is inconsistent offensively. Jamie Benn led the league last year in points (87), and there was many nights where he was indivisible.

With liberty and justice for all?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

This is just BS. It's the kind of response that occurs whenever "fear of losing Kopitar" creeps into the heads of people that can't imagine life without him. Kopitar is a great player, but he has many shortcomings that require that the Kings surround him with top-notch talent. That top-notch talent doesn't come cheap, and Kopitar's cap hit should be adjusted accordingly.

And yes the extra $1M-$2M AAV and extra 3 years on the term matter.

Sometimes I wonder how well you understand building a team versus just regurgitating every Dean-ism you can think of. Stop shilling for management and think about what you're saying. No team who wants to contend gives away their top center at age 29.

There is a ton of data which suggests the Kings are a better team with Kopitar on the ice, our abysmal record without him notwithstanding. No one is saying give him 12 million dollars a year. Stop hyperbolizing this. The market has been set for a player of Kopitar's tier. He will get his money. Period. GMs may be wising up to giving people Clarkson deals, but players like Toews, Kopitar, Stamkos etc will always get paid.

Stop bending over backwards to **** on the guy. Everyone is aware of his faults. For ****'s sake man, he leads the team in scoring every regular season and in the playoffs. And you're *****ing about him running on the treadmill more during the offseason? Give your head a shake.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Sometimes I wonder how well you understand building a team versus just regurgitating every Dean-ism you can think of. Stop shilling for management and think about what you're saying. No team who wants to contend gives away their top center at age 29.

There is a ton of data which suggests the Kings are a better team with Kopitar on the ice, our abysmal record without him notwithstanding. No one is saying give him 12 million dollars a year. Stop hyperbolizing this. The market has been set for a player of Kopitar's tier. He will get his money. Period. GMs may be wising up to giving people Clarkson deals, but players like Toews, Kopitar, Stamkos etc will always get paid.

Stop bending over backwards to **** on the guy. Everyone is aware of his faults. For ****'s sake man, he leads the team in scoring every regular season and in the playoffs. And you're *****ing about him running on the treadmill more during the offseason? Give your head a shake.

Bingo.

 

[TopT]

I don't think Dean will wait until the trade deadline.

So Dean will trade 1C in the middle of a season when we are one of the favorites for the cup. I must say brilliant, brilliant

 

[HYORI 1963]

So Dean will trade 1C in the middle of a season when we are one of the favorites for the cup. I must say brilliant, brilliant

If Dean's going to trade Kopi, it'd be better sooner than later. Think about it. A team looking to acquire Kopi early on in the season will not only benefit from his play, but will have plenty of time to negotiate on a new deal. And if by close to trade deadline, the team and Kopi can't come to an agreement, then the team has the option of trading him and recoup some of the assets previous lost in acquiring Kopi, or maintain his services and hope for the betterment of the team.

 

[TopT]

If Dean's going to trade Kopi, it'd be better sooner than later. Think about it. A team looking to acquire Kopi early on in the season will not only benefit from his play, but will have plenty of time to negotiate on a new deal. And if by close to trade deadline, the team and Kopi can't come to an agreement, then the team has the option of trading him and recoup some of the assets previous lost in acquiring Kopi, or maintain his services and hope for the betterment of the team.

and what about the LA Kings; what will we do ? Tank ?
Dean paid a big price for Lucic to play with Kopi and now Kopi will be traded ?
I mean if this happens it will be top 2 dumbest things in Kings history.

 

[HYORI 1963]

and what about the LA Kings; what will we do ? Tank ?
Dean paid a big price for Lucic to play with Kopi and now Kopi will be traded ?
I mean if this happens it will be top 2 dumbest things in Kings history.

Why would we tank? That's just silly. Dean will have to switch over to plan b, and hope to make the best team he can without Kopi. I know practically everyone thinks that kings will be doomed if we lost Kopi, but I'm not one of them. Yes, we're definitely a better team with him, but it won't be the end of LA Kings and its run at the cup, even without Kopi.

 

[TopT]

Why would we tank? That's just silly. Dean will have to switch over to plan b, and hope to make the best team he can without Kopi. I know practically everyone thinks that kings will be doomed if we lost Kopi, but I'm not one of them. Yes, we're definitely a better team with him, but it won't be the end of LA Kings and its run at the cup, even without Kopi.

Are the Hawks contenders without Toews ? Ducks without Gez ? When was the last time a team won a cup without true 1C ?

 

[HYORI 1963]

Are the Hawks contenders without Toews ? Ducks without Gez ? When was the last time a team won a cup without true 1C ?

It depends on who they got in return, don't you think?

Carter is a 1C. You and others may not see him that way, but to me, he's a legit 1C.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Sign Kopitar and move on. Done.

 

[tsanuri]

If Dean's going to trade Kopi, it'd be better sooner than later. Think about it. A team looking to acquire Kopi early on in the season will not only benefit from his play, but will have plenty of time to negotiate on a new deal. And if by close to trade deadline, the team and Kopi can't come to an agreement, then the team has the option of trading him and recoup some of the assets previous lost in acquiring Kopi, or maintain his services and hope for the betterment of the team.

The problem is it's already been reported that he doesn't want to negotiate during the season. We of course don't know how true that is. But if true doesn't matter when a trade would happen he wouldn't negotiate.

But onto the other part all together. The talk of trading our number 1 center and leading scorer for the last 7 years. It would go down as the worst move this team has ever made. And that is saying something with the amount of bonehead moves this team has made.