Kopitar; For or Against a trade if it comes to it?

[HYORI 1963]

Hmm could be, but I doubt that's the only issue when Dean says that they aren't even in the same ballpark. I can't imagine Dean giving him the money, term, and the NTC.

I think the term and money are still a major issue.

I also think it's the NMC that could be the major holdup. I think Deano's willing to bend on the money and even the term, IF he can have the control of possibly trading Kopi with a signed contract, which Kopi will definitely object to. Kopi wants the money/term and the control of his future, and Deano's unwilling to give in on the NMC.

I say if the cap and the term of the contract are reasonable, then I think Deano will give in on the NMC.

 

[likid]

I know one thing.

If Kopi won't sign new contract till end of year 2015, there is not a big chance that you'll watch him after comming season in Kings dress. Some things are more important to Kopitar than money and one of the most important for him is that he will have a feeling of appreciation what he had done for Kings in past ten years. If Dean comes with an offer like King17 is suggesting, then you won't see Kopitar signing new contract even if after some times Dean offer him Toews terms. He will rather sign similar contract with some other team.

Don't expect from Kopi that he will just accept "it just a business". And I too believe NMC is the most important term for him for next contract.

 

[HYORI 1963]

What do you guys think about trading Kopi, then re-signing him in the next off-season? Hypothetically, we trade him for something little better than Lucic's deal. This way, we'd benefit from receiving all the assets, and without Kopi, we'll probably have a higher draft pick, plus we'd have Kopi back for next season. Yeah, I know, there's no guarantee that he'll want to re-sign with us if he's traded, there's definitely that line of thinking. However, I'm thinking Kopi being away from the kings, he'll want to come back.

Let 'er rip!

 

[KINGS17]

I know one thing.

If Kopi won't sign new contract till end of year 2015, there is not a big chance that you'll watch him after comming season in Kings dress. Some things are more important to Kopitar than money and one of the most important for him is that he will have a feeling of appreciation what he had done for Kings in past ten years. If Dean comes with an offer like King17 is suggesting, then you won't see Kopitar signing new contract even if after some times Dean offer him Toews terms. He will rather sign similar contract with some other team.

Don't expect from Kopi that he will just accept "it just a business". And I too believe NMC is the most important term for him for next contract.

Money isn't important, but wait, yes it is.

If Kopitar has another season like his last one, there is a big chance he doesn't get 8 years with an AAV of $9M. Getzlaf and Perry both signed their last contracts in-season. It didn't seem to bother them.

Regarding what Kopitar did for the Kings over the last 10 years, he was highly compensated for what he did. His second contract was very good for him, and for the Kings. No way I would give him the NMC. It's a team policy that has worked extremely well for the Kings. No need to change it now.

I understand how you feel, you're a Kopitar fan, not a Kings fan.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Just ****ing sign him. He is one of four reasons (Kopi, Lombardi, Doughty, Quick) behind the fact that this ****ing franchise isn't a ****ing joke anymore.

 

[TopT]

I thought we were talking about Dean giving Kopitar a deal that actually is fair to both sides. 8 years and $72M is not fair to the Kings in any way at this point in time.

There are only so many choices that can be made. Trading him is one of them, but it's not at the top of the list.

Getting bent over by Kopitar's agent is another choice on the list, but IMO it should be lower on the list than trading him.

This is an extremely fair number based on the contracts signed this year and the number I hope he will sign.

 

[Fishhead]

There has been zero chatter about this for a few weeks, so I am fully expecting it to get done in the next couple days. My guess around 8.5+9+10+10+10+10+8+6. Cap hit of 8.94M for 8 years. Likely a limited NMC, like with Brown. Inconsequential because the only teams that would likely want to pick Kopitar up near the end of his contract would be contenders anyways.

 

[KINGS17]

This is an extremely fair number based on the contracts signed this year and the number I hope he will sign.

Name the players and the contract numbers that were "fair".

 

[TopT]

I agree, the Kings don't have a 1C in the pipeline at this time. The question is, are the Kings a Stanley Cup contending team with Kopitar playing as he did last season? Then if that occurs, why compound the problem by giving him a crazy contract?

I think waiting is the best course of action at this time.

Lombardi sure thinks so and he is the smartest guy in the room

 

[TopT]

I hate to tell you this, but if Kopitar only has 10 goals come the end of January, the window with him as the 1C is going to be closing.

I didn't rail against Doughty getting paid. I didn't like his agent wanting him to sign a contract that took him right up to UFA status. Dean paid for and got the 8-year deal. Absolutely no problem with that.

Regarding Kopitar, we don't even know if he has already started to decline. There is lots of information available to suggest that he has in terms of his offensive game. This team didn't make the playoffs last season, and a lot of that rests squarely on Kopitar's shoulders.

How would you trade Kopitar in a few years if he is putting up around 50 points and has a $9M cap hit for 5 more years?

I am an advocate of a 5-year deal, at less than $9M a season. More than that is simply Kopitar taking advantage and limiting the supporting cast around him.

I think you are over generalizing quite a bit. If you remember correctly, I was all for giving Toffoli something like 6 years and $30M this time around. I like fair deals, and sometimes those come with a bit of calculated risk for Dean.

I had no issues with Kopitar's 2nd deal, and no issues with Doughty's 2nd deal once he finally signed it.

Many of you want to mortgage the entire future on the hope Kopitar returns to form and continues to play like he is 25-26 years old well into his 30's. Not likely to happen. What's wrong with Kopitar taking a fair contract if he loves it here so much? Anyway I'm content to wait to see if Kopitar can earn the big contract his agent is seeking. I think Dean may be in that camp as well.

ha ha; I mean I am an advocate for Kopi playing for free; 0 chance of happening

 

[TopT]

I don't see why. It's not an anti-Kopitar post. Some of you are so in love with the players (e.g. Mike Richards) that as soon as someone suggests that they might be slipping a bit, the cheese slips off your cracker. Most people agree that 8 years and $72M is overpayment.

It's a question of is Kopitar going to be able to maintain a level of play that makes the Kings Stanley Cup contenders for the next 3-4 seasons.

Let's see what he does the first 3-4 months of the season, or if he comes out guns blazing maybe sooner, before Dean hands over the keys to the vault.

Where are this people; please make a poll or even better I ll do one for you on the main board.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1958611
I wont even vote so that it will be "fair"

 

[TopT]

Name the players and the contract numbers that were "fair".

Kopitar would be at 9M, based on the contracts given to similar players.
So a Toews 10,5 is overpayment, 9M would be fair.

 

[gnarls barkley]

I think a big misconception is that contracts are solely based on a player's value on the ice - the reality is that contracts are skewed much more towards a player's market value - which is to say, a hot commodity will almost always go for more when compared to the "fair price", or what it would be in a vacuum.

this is exactly what happened with Seabrook, is he worth 55M over 8? Of course not. Why did the Hawks give it to him anyways? There's nothing similar available. Asking price goes way up because they have zero leverage.

Look around, where are the 1Cs on the market?


that all being said, if Dean somehow fails to re-sign Kopitar, I'm definitely going to question whether he's actually as smart as we all think (hope?) he is.

 

[Reclamation Project]

I think a big misconception is that contracts are solely based on a player's value on the ice - the reality is that contracts are skewed much more towards a player's market value - which is to say, a hot commodity will almost always go for more when compared to the "fair price", or what it would be in a vacuum.

this is exactly what happened with Seabrook, is he worth 55M over 8? Of course not. Why did the Hawks give it to him anyways? There's nothing similar available. Asking price goes way up because they have zero leverage.

Look around, where are the 1Cs on the market?


that all being said, if Dean somehow fails to re-sign Kopitar, I'm definitely going to question whether he's actually as smart as we all think (hope?) he is.

Well, that simply won't happen.

 

[The Night King]

I think a big misconception is that contracts are solely based on a player's value on the ice - the reality is that contracts are skewed much more towards a player's market value - which is to say, a hot commodity will almost always go for more when compared to the "fair price", or what it would be in a vacuum.

this is exactly what happened with Seabrook, is he worth 55M over 8? Of course not. Why did the Hawks give it to him anyways? There's nothing similar available. Asking price goes way up because they have zero leverage.

Look around, where are the 1Cs on the market?


that all being said, if Dean somehow fails to re-sign Kopitar, I'm definitely going to question whether he's actually as smart as we all think (hope?) he is.

Wholeheartedly agree.

If I were Kopi and Dean asked me to "prove" that I'm worth the money I'm asking, I'd laugh in his face and then sign with another team at a higher AAV than what Toews is getting.

But he's more reasonable than I would be so I think he'll work things out with Dean and settle for less.

But don't expect him to take a huge discount. Not gonna happen.

Also, DL isn't going to sign him based on what he thinks he'll do 5 years from now. You think he signed Gabby long-term thinking he's gonna score 27 goals when he's 38?

 

[KINGS17]

Wholeheartedly agree.

If I were Kopi and Dean asked me to "prove" that I'm worth the money I'm asking, I'd laugh in his face and then sign with another team at a higher AAV than what Toews is getting.

But he's more reasonable than I would be so I think he'll work things out with Dean and settle for less.

But don't expect him to take a huge discount. Not gonna happen.

Also, DL isn't going to sign him based on what he thinks he'll do 5 years from now. You think he signed Gabby long-term thinking he's gonna score 27 goals when he's 38?

No, I think he signed Garborik to a long term deal so he could get him on an AAV of less than $5M. That was done with the expectation that Gaborik will not play the entire 7 years.

Is Kopitar going to give Dean a big break on the AAV if he signs for 8 years? If he isn't, why give him the 8 years?

 

[Fishhead]

Toews is a mess at 10.5, but it's still a comparable.

I think a better one would be Bergereon. Bergeron is at 6.875, but he's got a full NMC for the first 6 years, which he surely gave up dollars for. He's also 30 years old, so his last 3 years in his contract dive. as the likelihood of playing in his late 30s is low.

If Bergeron is Kopitars age, he's looking at more like 8.5ish without a NMC. Kopitar is usually thought of as the superior player, so would be worth slightly more. It would be nice to save money, but Kopi's market value on an 8 year contract is about 9M per year.

At least that's what I expect.

 

[Trolfoli]

In the insane scenario where Kopitar isn't signed, who else thinks there's a huge chance he signs with the Ducks so He can still live in the beach house he's building?


The discount Lombardi will get with a 7-8 year deal will be getting the AAV under $10,000,000.00

 

[Reclamation Project]

Why would the Ducks sign him? And they don't have the money. Wouldn't happen.

 

[likid]

I understand how you feel, you're a Kopitar fan, not a Kings fan.

hmm, I'm Kings fan that become Kings fan because of Kopitar and who is watching alt least 50% of Kings games live waking up at 4:00am or earlier to watch the game and then go to work and know Kings team and their players better than many Kings fans that are able to watch them live.

And what I'm trying to tell you, don't watch at Kopitar from American way of thinking because our way of thinking is a bit different than yours. Money and term is not important for our culture in a way you think, but more in a way of showing appreciation and loyalty for everything you have done till now and you will done in the future.

And that's why I'm saying, longer it will last, less likely is that Kopitar will sign new contract with Kings. And in my mind this unwritten deadline is New Year.

 

[KINGS17]

hmm, I'm Kings fan that become Kings fan because of Kopitar and who is watching alt least 50% of Kings games live waking up at 4:00am or earlier to watch the game and then go to work and know Kings team and their players better than many Kings fans that are able to watch them live.

And what I'm trying to tell you, don't watch at Kopitar from American way of thinking because our way of thinking is a bit different than yours. Money and term is not important for our culture in a way you think, but more in a way of showing appreciation and loyalty for everything you have done till now and you will done in the future.

And that's why I'm saying, longer it will last, less likely is that Kopitar will sign new contract with Kings. And in my mind this unwritten deadline is New Year.

This may indeed be the case, but based on last season's performance Kopitar should understand why Dean would be hesitant to give Kopitar a retirement contract before the season starts.

I like how you say money and term is not important to your culture and then in the very next statement say, but Kopitar might get pissed if he doesn't get a retirement contract.

Everything Kopitar will do in the future? You mean Dean should make the same mistake he did with Richards? I think Dean is going to be very cautious, and that is the proper course of action. And by this I am not implying that Kopitar's game will ever decline to the extent that Richards' game did. I am simply stating the magnitude of the kind of deal many want to see for Kopitar makes it a bad deal even if his play levels out at what he did last season.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This may indeed be the case, but based on last season's performance Kopitar should understand why Dean would be hesitant to give Kopitar a retirement contract before the season starts.

I like how you say money and term is not important to your culture and then in the very next statement say, but Kopitar might get pissed if he doesn't get a retirement contract.

Everything Kopitar will do in the future? You mean Dean should make the same mistake he did with Richards? I think Dean is going to be very cautious, and that is the proper course of action. And by this I am not implying that Kopitar's game will ever decline to the extent that Richards' game did. I am simply stating the magnitude of the kind of deal many want to see for Kopitar makes it a bad deal even if his play levels out at what he did last season.

I think what likid is saying is that loyalty is more important than brass tacks, not that money and term is literally not important. I.e., playing hardball with Kopitar now sort of implies that he's not worth rewarding, and that after January, it won't matter if DL breaks the bank for him, the relationship will have already taken its damage.

And again, lots of teams will be happy to look past Kopitar's slow start and pay for the 54 points in 58 games guy, even if we collectively can't appreciate it.

 

[KINGS17]

I think what likid is saying is that loyalty is more important than brass tacks, not that money and term is literally not important. I.e., playing hardball with Kopitar now sort of implies that he's not worth rewarding, and that after January, it won't matter if DL breaks the bank for him, the relationship will have already taken its damage.

And again, lots of teams will be happy to look past Kopitar's slow start and pay for the 54 points in 58 games guy, even if we collectively can't appreciate it.

You mean 16 goals in 82 games guy? No matter how hard you try to deflect the 100 shots less in the season, and too few goals last season, it happened. That kind of play from Kopitar will not keep the Kings at a contending level.

Dean obviously has an offer on the table, as does Kopitar's agent. We don't know if the two sides are attempting to meet in the middle, or if they are standing by their original offers. Some of you see that, if it is the situation, as Dean playing hardball. I say that's Kopitar's agent needing to get a reality check. The agent could be playing hardball as well.

Hardball by Dean would be saying that he refuses to negotiate at all until Kopitar proves something this season. Right now it's simply a case of Dean saying he doesn't like the agent's proposed contract.

 

[tsanuri]

You mean 16 goals in 82 games guy? No matter how hard you try to deflect the 100 shots less in the season, and too few goals last season, it happened. That kind of play from Kopitar will not keep the Kings at a contending level.

Dean obviously has an offer on the table, as does Kopitar's agent. We don't know if the two sides are attempting to meet in the middle, or if they are standing by their original offers. Some of you see that, if it is the situation, as Dean playing hardball. I say that's Kopitar's agent needing to get a reality check. The agent could be playing hardball as well.

Hardball by Dean would be saying that he refuses to negotiate at all until Kopitar proves something this season. Right now it's simply a case of Dean saying he doesn't like the agent's proposed contract.

And no matter how many times you try to say goals HE STILL LEAD THE TEAM IN SCORING. Just like he has for the past 7 years.

 

[Trolfoli]

You mean 16 goals in 82 games guy? No matter how hard you try to deflect the 100 shots less in the season, and too few goals last season, it happened. That kind of play from Kopitar will not keep the Kings at a contending level.

Dean obviously has an offer on the table, as does Kopitar's agent. We don't know if the two sides are attempting to meet in the middle, or if they are standing by their original offers. Some of you see that, if it is the situation, as Dean playing hardball. I say that's Kopitar's agent needing to get a reality check. The agent could be playing hardball as well.

Hardball by Dean would be saying that he refuses to negotiate at all until Kopitar proves something this season. Right now it's simply a case of Dean saying he doesn't like the agent's proposed contract.

This happens when you play a defensive system and have garbage wingers like Brown/Lewis/Williams.