Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal

[Runner77]

I used their % of faceoffs from last year which was pretty much the same.

We’re talking strictly faceoffs because people are trying to make it seems like a big deal and a huge important thing.

I got that but Hughes is miles ahead in terms of offensive production, his faceoffs and whatever other shortcomings are much more easily overlooked.

Dach’s offensive numbers, his injuries and whether he’s had a full recovery, his failure to engage physically as an oversized player, his weak shot, his failure to improve despite playing with Kane and being taken under his wing and an across the board low faceoff success ratio from his junior days and throughout his NHL games, puts all of what he does, under fans’ microscopes.

If Dach had been producing offensive numbers like Hughes, no one would be looking as closely at his other shortcomings.

 

[Prairie Habs]

I really don't see why everyone is getting so worked up over the 3.5Mx4. Either he develops well and we have a great deal or he doesn't develop well and we have another overpaid bottom 6 guy. The first scenario is a huge win, the second one isn't good, but its not that bad either. The risk in Dach was the assets it took to acquire him, which are gone either way. If Dach doesn't work out then there's really no chance we come out of our rebuild in those 4 years, so having another overpaid bottom 6 guy while really isn't a big issue for a rebuilding team.

Its not like the Leafs gambling on shaky goaltending while they are contending. If their goaltending doesn't hold up then they lose a critical year (or 2) of their top guys being signed. If Dach sucks then a bad team has an overpaid depth player, which we already have a tonne of. The 3rd and 4th years of his deal that everyone are worried about are also when most of our current bad deals will be gone, so its not like he would be preventing us from making moves. His 3.5M probably won't cripple us when we have 32M from Dadonov, Hoffman, Byron, Edmundson, Allen, Monahan, Drouin, and Alzner's buyout all off the books. We'll also have Savard and Armia off in one more year.

 

[SlafySZN]

I got that but Hughes is miles ahead in terms of offensive production, his faceoffs and whatever other shortcomings are much more easily overlooked.

Dach’s offensive numbers, his injuries and whether he’s had a full recovery, his failure to engage physically as an oversized player, his weak shot, his failure to improve despite playing with Kane and being taken under his wing and an across the board low faceoff success ratio from his junior days and throughout his NHL games, puts all of what he does, under fans’ microscopes.

If Dach had been producing offensive numbers like Hughes, no one would be looking as closely to his other shortcomings.

Him playing with Kane 15 games from time to time out of 70 games last year doesn’t worry me. He scored 6 points in those 15 games. He changed linemates constantly, hard for a young player to find stability in those situations.

 

[Jack Skellington]

Him playing with Kane 15 games from time to time out of 70 games last year doesn’t worry me. He scored 6 points in those 15 games. He changed linemates constantly, hard for a young player to find stability in those situations.

Kane doesn't really have history of increasing the production of his linemates anyways. Not even close to someone like Sid or NYI Tavares. I have a pretty long post I can probably find going into all the numbers but alot of guys production was on par with their average at best in their time with Kane.

 

[Prairie Habs]

I got that but Hughes is miles ahead in terms of offensive production, his faceoffs and whatever other shortcomings are much more easily overlooked.

Dach’s offensive numbers, his injuries and whether he’s had a full recovery, his failure to engage physically as an oversized player, his weak shot, his failure to improve despite playing with Kane and being taken under his wing and an across the board low faceoff success ratio from his junior days and throughout his NHL games, puts all of what he does, under fans’ microscopes.

If Dach had been producing offensive numbers like Hughes, no one would be looking as closely at his other shortcomings.

Faceoffs is such a minor concern and one of the most easily fixed aspects of a young players game. Look at a guy like Kevin Hayes, another big young C at 6'5 came into the league older than Dach at age 22. His first two seasons he played full years and had faceoff percentages in the mid 30's. Then he had one year in the mid 40's then he was +/- 1% of 50% for the next 5 years before an understandably down year this year.

Hell, even Galchenyuk won over 52% of his 400+ draws with the Coyotes last season.

 

[417]

I really don't see why everyone is getting so worked up over the 3.5Mx4. Either he develops well and we have a great deal or he doesn't develop well and we have another overpaid bottom 6 guy. The first scenario is a huge win, the second one isn't good, but its not that bad either. The risk in Dach was the assets it took to acquire him, which are gone either way. If Dach doesn't work out then there's really no chance we come out of our rebuild in those 4 years, so having another overpaid bottom 6 guy while really isn't a big issue for a rebuilding team.

Its not like the Leafs gambling on shaky goaltending while they are contending. If their goaltending doesn't hold up then they lose a critical year (or 2) of their top guys being signed. If Dach sucks then a bad team has an overpaid depth player, which we already have a tonne of. The 3rd and 4th years of his deal that everyone are worried about are also when most of our current bad deals will be gone, so its not like he would be preventing us from making moves. His 3.5M probably won't cripple us when we have 32M from Dadonov, Hoffman, Byron, Edmundson, Allen, Monahan, Drouin, and Alzner's buyout all off the books. We'll also have Savard and Armia off in one more year.

Because we're capologists 1st...fans 2nd!

 

[SlafySZN]

Kane doesn't really have history of increasing the production of his linemates anyways. Not even close to someone like Sid or NYI Tavares. I have a pretty long post I can probably find going into all the numbers but alot of guys production was on par with their average at best in their time with Kane.

Yeah. Dach did better when he played with guys like Kurashev, Hagel.

 

[Runner77]

Him playing with Kane 15 games from time to time out of 70 games last year doesn’t worry me. He scored 6 points in those 15 games. He changed linemates constantly, hard for a young player to find stability in those situations.

You’re going on a complete other tangent by cherry picking one point out of the aggregate that was presented as part of the wider argument that revolves around you using Hughes as a comparable to Dach in an attempt to justify’s Dach’s faceoff numbers, which continues to be a disingenuous take.

For the record, it is established that Kane did take Dach under his wing. I don’t know how many games they played together but that may have been impacted by Dach’s absence due to injury.

However, it does nothing to avert fans’ skepticism in respect of the several elements of downside risk that they are being vocal about. I’m not saying they are right on all counts but they are understandably raising concerns.

Because we're capologists 1st...fans 2nd!

Crapologists is more like it.

Faceoffs is such a minor concern and one of the most easily fixed aspects of a young players game. Look at a guy like Kevin Hayes, another big young C at 6'5 came into the league older than Dach at age 22. His first two seasons he played full years and had faceoff percentages in the mid 30's. Then he had one year in the mid 40's then he was +/- 1% of 50% for the next 5 years before an understandably down year this year.

Hell, even Galchenyuk won over 52% of his 400+ draws with the Coyotes last season.

Have you even been reading what I wrote? Obviously not. You’re merely regurgitating a point I have been beating to death. If you’re going to quote, at least read what I wrote. This place sometimes.

 

[HabsAddict]

I guess you know better than HuGo!

If you say so, it must be true.

Not the first or the second time that these post injury trades blow up in ones face.

If you're optimistic about it, good for you. I'll wait and see what's real.

 

[HabsAddict]

Good points, but without knowing everything going on in Chi Town what's to say he and his agent had asked to be traded out of the current Shitshow of craziness going on there? I mean they traded Debrincat too? Why would anyone in their right mind trade a 30 goal scorer who is 24??
Why.........it's a scorched earth mess in Chicago, so let's just see where this leads..............without knowing all the info as to what has transpired?

Denbrincat was a smart max value trade before he left town as FA.

Dach is not. In fact, if he played another season and he's a 60 point center, he's gold bullion.

I'm skeptical about this despite swallowing the Hopium drugs...

 

[BLONG7]

What is so hard to understand about DeBrincat? He would have been gone in 2 years anyway and they are not competing in the next 2 years. Now the return should have been better, but to keep him makes no sense.

Foundational piece you keep in my mind.

 

[ReHabs]

Not the first or the second time that these post injury trades blow up in ones face.

If you're optimistic about it, good for you. I'll wait and see what's real.

Yeah I don’t understand why so many people are high on Dach. It’s like as if we acquired Galchenyuk or Kotkaniemi, even worse because at the same time in his NHL career, Dach has proved a lot less than either of them.

High hopes but low expectations… that’s how we gotta see this guy.

 

[Runner77]

Yeah I don’t understand why so many people are high on Dach.

Well, someone has to play 3C when Dvorak is jettisoned.

Alternatively, that someone is just who needs to be dangled in a bid to acquire Dubois.

 

[ReHabs]

Well, someone has to play 3C when Dvorak is jettisoned.

Alternatively, that someone is just who needs to be dangled in a bid to acquire Dubois.

The Dach to Dubois shuffle

Some might say it’s the perfect plan to acquire a 60pt second line centreman.

 

[Runner77]

The Dach to Dubois shuffle

Some might say it’s the perfect plan to acquire a 60pt second line centreman.

Only one obstacle looms large in that equation.

 

[OldCraig71]

Him playing with Kane 15 games from time to time out of 70 games last year doesn’t worry me. He scored 6 points in those 15 games. He changed linemates constantly, hard for a young player to find stability in those situations.

Kane is still one of the top point-producing forwards in the league and to get 6 points in 15 games playing with him is not a great result. We got Chicago's version of Kotkaniemi.

 

[Runner77]

Kane is still one of the top point-producing forwards in the league and to get 6 points in 15 games playing with him is not a great result. We got Chicago's version of Kotkaniemi.

I wish we knew what HuGo knows. Only cautiously optimistic until we start seeing what he can do.

 

[OldCraig71]

I wish we knew what HuGo knows. Only cautiously optimistic until we start seeing what he can do.

Exactly, I feel the same way about Slafkovsky. The bottom line is that you and I and many others have been here for a long time and we have seen so much in the way of hype when it comes to unproven players, a few busloads of them actually lol.

 

[Weltschmerz]

I wish we knew what HuGo knows. Only cautiously optimistic until we start seeing what he can do.

Maybe they know something or maybe it's just a gamble, hard to say at this point in time.

 

[BLONG7]

Kane is still one of the top point-producing forwards in the league and to get 6 points in 15 games playing with him is not a great result. We got Chicago's version of Kotkaniemi.

True, but Toews couldn't produce with Kane last year either..............food for thought.
I am not sure what we have in Dach, but for some reason think he is going to be great for us......

 

[Runner77]

Exactly, I feel the same way about Slafkovsky. The bottom line is that you and I and many others have been here for a long time and we have seen so much in the way of hype when it comes to unproven players, a few busloads of them actually lol.

I’m more optimistic about Slaf cause he doesn’t have all the warts that Dach needs to overcome. Or maybe it’s just the new shiny toy syndrome.

True, but Toews couldn't produce with Kane last year either..............food for thought.
I am not sure what we have in Dach, but for some reason think he is going to be great for us......

We should in the least, have a motivated player who will set out to prove his prior organization wrong. That would be a nice start.

 

[GordonGraham]

Will he show to camp if unsigned ?

 

[SlafySZN]

Will he show to camp if unsigned ?

Won’t be unsigned by then. Hughes said he’ll be signed before.

Well, someone has to play 3C when Dvorak is jettisoned.

Alternatively, that someone is just who needs to be dangled in a bid to acquire Dubois.

Some of you guys are really in denial about Dubois

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

8 years x $4.82MM

 

[OnTheRun]

Won’t be unsigned by then. Hughes said he’ll be signed before.

Hughes doesn't have control over when a player decide to signs. The plan is to have it done before the main camp start... but what is planned and what actually happen are two different things.