Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | The Morning After

[Nuckles]

I think Rutherford and Allvin are losing their minds honestly watching Petey play.
This team is going to go nowhere with him playing like this, he was better in the third, but we need so much more.

Honestly, new coach or not, I would seriously consider a trade if we get a decent package together from Buffalo or CBJ

I'm having a mental tug of war in regards with what to do with Petey.

On one hand, my instincts say to move him for a good package because I don't see him rebounding in Vancouver, even with Miller gone. That contract could be very problematic long-term even with the salary cap skyrocketing given the level of his play.

I also worry about him having a negative impact off the ice. If he continues to struggle will other teammates get frustrated with him? He's supposed to be their star forward making the big bucks. He's already gone a full year playing very poorly (to his standards) and it led to a major feud that got a key player traded for low value.


Buuuuuut on the other hand, this team has no realistic chance at seriously competing if they trade Petey for a package that includes a lesser C (like Cozens). They already lost a 1C with the Miller trade, and there's no high-end center prospects coming up through the system.

No team is winning the cup without a 1st line center. And they can't afford to "throw in the towel" because Hughes will just walk in 2 years.

They kind of have to bet on Pettersson rebounding at this point.

 

[Canuckle1970]

Warning - may be sacrilegious:

We have a bronze statue in front of our arena of the late Roger Neilson that's in honor of "Towel Power" in 1982.

At the time, Roger's gesture was considered an FU to the refereeing in that playoff game against Chicago, and he was tossed from the game. The statue was unveiled to the public in April 2011. Hmmn.

You'd like to think that the current crop of refs are not affected by a statue of an FU that occurred well over 40 years ago, but it sure crosses my mind more often than not.

 

[Nucker101]

I'm having a mental tug of war in regards with what to do with Petey.

On one hand, my instincts say to move him for a good package because I don't see him rebounding in Vancouver, even with Miller gone. That contract could be very problematic long-term even with the salary cap skyrocketing given the level of his play.

I also worry about him having a negative impact off the ice. If he continues to struggle will other teammates get frustrated with him? He's supposed to be their star forward making the big bucks. He's already gone a full year playing very poorly (to his standards) and it led to a major feud that got a key player traded for low value.


Buuuuuut on the other hand, this team has no realistic chance at seriously competing if they trade Petey for a package that includes a lesser C (like Cozens). They already lost a 1C with the Miller trade, and there's no high-end center prospects coming up through the system.

No team is winning the cup without a 1st line center. And they can't afford to "throw in the towel" because Hughes will just walk in 2 years.

They kind of have to bet on Pettersson rebounding at this point.

Same here, in between games I'm like "don't sell low" but then I watch him play and I'm like "this guy is a shell of himself and it doesn't even look like it's an effort thing, something is broken and if it can't be fixed then we need to move on sadly"

 

[arttk]

No.....but I've never seen a management group hang out its star players to dry like the Canucks have done this season.

Dallas just f***ed with Luka’s money (cost him 100M) and called him fat on the way out

 

[arttk]

I'm having a mental tug of war in regards with what to do with Petey.

On one hand, my instincts say to move him for a good package because I don't see him rebounding in Vancouver, even with Miller gone. That contract could be very problematic long-term even with the salary cap skyrocketing given the level of his play.

I also worry about him having a negative impact off the ice. If he continues to struggle will other teammates get frustrated with him? He's supposed to be their star forward making the big bucks. He's already gone a full year playing very poorly (to his standards) and it led to a major feud that got a key player traded for low value.


Buuuuuut on the other hand, this team has no realistic chance at seriously competing if they trade Petey for a package that includes a lesser C (like Cozens). They already lost a 1C with the Miller trade, and there's no high-end center prospects coming up through the system.

No team is winning the cup without a 1st line center. And they can't afford to "throw in the towel" because Hughes will just walk in 2 years.

They kind of have to bet on Pettersson rebounding at this point.

You just have to bet on him having a healthy offseason and rebounding. The assets you get for him, no matter how much flipping you do won’t get you a 1C. Best you can do is get like a 1W back and then assets to flip to maybe get a 2C that might have 1C potential.

 

[credulous]

Dallas just f***ed with Luka’s money (cost him 100M) and called him fat on the way out

i mean allvin and jr have separately both kinda called pettersson fat in the last few months

i worry that pettersson's play is as much about his treatment by management and coaching as it is about his health or his attitude. who wants to play for a team that clearly doesn't really want you? trading him could be a huge self own

 

[arttk]

i mean allvin and jr have separately both kinda called pettersson fat in the last few months

i worry that pettersson's play is as much about his treatment by management and coaching as it is about his health or his attitude. who wants to play for a team that clearly doesn't really want you? trading him could be a huge self own

Yeah but Luka getting f***ed out of a 100M is going to leave a significant black stain on that org.

 

[Canuckle1970]

Dallas just f***ed with Luka’s money (cost him 100M) and called him fat on the way out

I know, but I was referring to the NHL.

 

[Hyzer]

Our top 6 basically has no play drivers other than Chytl and Garland.

We're full of forwards that just wait, then skate in quicksand and process the game so slowly that the play is basically already dead and they don't know it yet. EP40 just is a huge passenger, Boeser and Debrusk are basically useless unless things are given to them on a silver platter.

Like I said earlier today, I think if a player like Crosby is available, I think you just go for it and throw the farm/future at him, because this team is basically a non-contender without Hughes. I am not saying that Hughes won't re-sign with us, but almost every big name american player goes back to the states unless they get the bag and/or sign short deals to get them to UFA.

 

[Nuckles]

You just have to bet on him having a healthy offseason and rebounding. The assets you get for him, no matter how much flipping you do won’t get you a 1C. Best you can do is get like a 1W back and then assets to flip to maybe get a 2C that might have 1C potential.

The only roundabout way I could maybe see the Canucks getting a 1C is if Buffalo did Power+Cozens for Pettersson, Power steps his game up in the next year or so, and then flipping him for a 1C.

But that's gambling on multiple things happening, while also hoping Hughes doesn't walk before that comes to fruition.

There is also Cole Sillinger in Columbus, but I don't know if he has the offensive upside to be a true 1C.

 

[arttk]

The only roundabout way I could maybe see the Canucks getting a 1C is if Buffalo did Power+Cozens for Pettersson, Power steps his game up in the next year or so, and then flipping him for a 1C.

But that's gambling on multiple things happening, while also hoping Hughes doesn't walk before that comes to fruition.

I don’t Buf trading away a 1st OA.

 

[credulous]

Yeah but Luka getting f***ed out of a 100M is going to leave a significant black stain on that org.

it won't cost him that much. he'll just sign a 2 year deal with an option and then sign a supermax. it'll cost him about 30m (165.2m instead of 193.4m)

the mavericks org looks like a bunch of clowns for sure though with all the 'defense wins championships' and 'luka try a salad' stuff

 

[arttk]

it won't cost him that much. he'll just sign a 2 year deal with an option and then sign a supermax. it'll cost him about 30m (165.2m instead of 193.4m)

the mavericks org looks like a bunch of clowns for sure though with all the 'defense wins championships' and 'luka try a salad' stuff

He’s not eligible for a super max again. You can only get a super max from the team that drafted you or traded away after signing it. Luka lost out on 117M.

 

[Hansen]

The only roundabout way I could maybe see the Canucks getting a 1C is if Buffalo did Power+Cozens for Pettersson, Power steps his game up in the next year or so, and then flipping him for a 1C.

But that's gambling on multiple things happening, while also hoping Hughes doesn't walk before that comes to fruition.

I just can't see any 1C's being available that fit our needs or in general. It's insane to me that there wasn't a bidding war for Miller (even moreso a couple years ago when he was on a sweetheart deal with multiple playoff runs available, f***ing insanity that noone wanted him).

I can't even think who would be available, Mat Barzal maybe (is he even a C anymore?), maybe Jared McCann (doubt Seattle moves him to us)? Necas could be. Shockingly my friend from Atlanta whos a big Lightning fan said he heard fans of Tampa Bay were talking about a possible Garland for Cirelli swap? No clue where that came from. Anyone who pops up is going to have some warts.

Power and Cozens is probably the only package that I'd take for Petey in this situation. If Power hits I say keep him, his current deal will be a steal. Just about every big elite d goes through growing pains from 20-24ish and then becomes a top player for the next 10 years, look back at Hedman and the rumours about him being available around 2012.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Uh oh, is that Zegras’s music I hear.

the opposite of zergas would be good. we need complimentary big wingers who can play top 6 and/or faceoff guys. i don't care if they can score themselves so much as create the conditions for scoring in a tough game. we were already over-reliant on miller to cause the necessary physical chaos to avoid being run out of hockey games.

 

[bossram]

Buuuuuut on the other hand, this team has no realistic chance at seriously competing if they trade Petey for a package that includes a lesser C (like Cozens). They already lost a 1C with the Miller trade, and there's no high-end center prospects coming up through the system.

No team is winning the cup without a 1st line center. And they can't afford to "throw in the towel" because Hughes will just walk in 2 years.

They kind of have to bet on Pettersson rebounding at this point.

This has been my argument for a while. They have to bet on Petey. They have no choice. There is zero percent chance of becoming a contender with whatever B-tier assets they'd get back in a Petey trade. Cozens at his absolute best is still worse than Petey right now.

I dunno how likely it is that Petey will get back to top-10 center form, but that is their only chance of doing any damage.

 

[VanJack]

I believe it.Boeser was pouting the last game and I'm sure Demko has checked out.Myers is pretty close to him also.
I'm sure more moves are coming.

So Seravelli is saying some members of the Canucks are pissed that Miller was dealt. Seriously? I mean they've had almost two months now to get used to the idea. What did they think would happen?

I think some 'insiders' like Seravelli are just disappointed that the Miller-Pettersson saga has finally staggered to its logical conclusion--and they're just desperately trying to keep it alive.

 

[Agent007]

Need to give petey some space here to get it together. Whatever deal you have right now isn’t going to be much different 30 games from now (basically end of the season). It’s not like teams are overpaying as is.

In general I wonder if maybe just waiting until closer to the deadline is best. We might see some trades this week (last nhl games before the break is on Sunday) but I wouldn’t push on something. If there’s a good value deal available go for it otherwise sit back and take a breather.

 

[Svencouver]

I think what Pettersson needs is, other than just improving his own play (It's getting there), is a dynamic, skilled, play-driving winger to open up the ice for him and a good aggressive puck retrieval guy on the other side. The lotto line was so good because it had this dynamic to some degree, and the DeBrusk-Pettersson-Boeser line is so bad because it's totally missing it. Boeser is a decent two way jack of all trades finisher that's okay in puck battles and retrieval, but he really just doesn't skate well enough and isn't nearly skilled enough to drive play.

It's odd because we've consistently seen Pettersson be very reliant on chemistry with his wingers and yet the team just totally struggles to either recognize this or land on a consistent model for providing that to him. Sure, in an ideal world you want your franchise C to elevate any winger they play with and to drive play all by themselves like a McDavid or a Crosby, but Pettersson isn't that, and that's fine. He's a supremely skilled, cerebreal 2-way center that relies on similarly skilled and cerebral wingers to, ultimately, put up extremely good numbers and get obscenely good advanced stats. He can be a top 5 C in the league when activated like this, and that's not a weakness for him as a player, it's a necessary consideration management needs to make when constructing the roster.

This is a player that thrived with Kuzmenko and even Goldobin in his rookie year, and neither of those players are nearly as good as a DeBrusk or Boeser, but it's obvious that Pettersson was far better when playing with players like them. Other than just doing the obvious shit with the personnel they already have like playing him with Karlsson/Hoglander/Sherwood/O'Connor, they should REALLY be looking at throwing 13-15m at Rantanen/Marner/etc. or targetting Barzal. After it being a rotting fish market for ages, ur top 6 D is finally solved for the next 5 years: it's time to splurge with the rising cap on a true upper echelon playdriver to unlock Pettersson.

 

[DFAC]

I think what Pettersson needs is, other than just improving his own play (It's getting there), is a dynamic, skilled, play-driving winger to open up the ice for him and a good aggressive puck retrieval guy on the other side. The lotto line was so good because it had this dynamic to some degree, and the DeBrusk-Pettersson-Boeser line is so bad because it's totally missing it. Boeser is a decent two way jack of all trades finisher that's okay in puck battles and retrieval, but he really just doesn't skate well enough and isn't nearly skilled enough to drive play.

It's odd because we've consistently seen Pettersson be very reliant on chemistry with his wingers and yet the team just totally struggles to either recognize this or land on a consistent model for providing that to him. Sure, in an ideal world you want your franchise C to elevate any winger they play with and to drive play all by themselves like a McDavid or a Crosby, but Pettersson isn't that, and that's fine. He's a supremely skilled, cerebreal 2-way center that relies on similarly skilled and cerebral wingers to, ultimately, put up extremely good numbers and get obscenely good advanced stats. He can be a top 5 C in the league when activated like this, and that's not a weakness for him as a player, it's a necessary consideration management needs to make when constructing the roster.

This is a player that thrived with Kuzmenko and even Goldobin in his rookie year, and neither of those players are nearly as good as a DeBrusk or Boeser, but it's obvious that Pettersson was far better when playing with players like them. Other than just doing the obvious shit with the personnel they already have like playing him with Karlsson/Hoglander/Sherwood/O'Connor, they should REALLY be looking at throwing 13-15m at Rantanen/Marner/etc. or targetting Barzal. After it being a rotting fish market for ages, ur top 6 D is finally solved for the next 5 years: it's time to splurge with the rising cap on a true upper echelon playdriver to unlock Pettersson.

Im all for throwing big money at Rantanen. Superstars like that rarely hit free agency and would fit this team like a glove

 

[Svencouver]

Im all for throwing big money at Rantanen. Superstars like that rarely hit free agency and would fit this team like a glove

Im extremely confident that if we don't make some sort of move like that for a Rantanen/Marner/Barzal type of player, and instead deal Pettersson in the offseason, whichever team gets Pettersson and actually does recognize this will reap the rewards of pairing him with a player like that and have him pop off for 100+ points for them while we sit on the sidelines wasting the last year or two of Hughes with the worst C depth in the league

 

[sandwichbird2023]

This has been my argument for a while. They have to bet on Petey. They have no choice. There is zero percent chance of becoming a contender with whatever B-tier assets they'd get back in a Petey trade. Cozens at his absolute best is still worse than Petey right now.

I dunno how likely it is that Petey will get back to top-10 center form, but that is their only chance of doing any damage.

The only way to get a 1C is to either draft one, or trade for one when they are considered "distress asset". Nobody will trade you a 1C under normal circumstances. If we trade Petey, we have to take some serious gambles to find that replacement, and those gambles would be long shots at best.

I wouldn't bet real money on Petey right now, but unfortunately him rebounding is still our best odds to come out of it with a 1C, so we kind of have no choice now. Still, even at his best, picturing Petey in a 7 games series against McDrai/Eichel/MacK/Schiefele does not instill a lot of confidence in me.

 

[Svencouver]

You are absolutely better off spending the rest of Petterssons contract trying to find the absolute best play-driving wingers on the market for him than dealing him in the hopes of ever replacing him, especially if you intend on contending with Hughes.

 

[ephmrl]

You are absolutely better off spending the rest of Petterssons contract trying to find the absolute best play-driving wingers on the market for him than dealing him in the hopes of ever replacing him, especially if you intend on contending with Hughes.

Boeser + 1st + Mynio for Barzal and put Barzal on Petey's wing.

 

[Svencouver]

Boeser + 1st + Mynio for Barzal and put Barzal on Petey's wing.

I'd obviously do that (and probably still go big game hunting for another top 6 winger in FA) but I do think you'd probably have to deal Lekkerimaki as well to get a player like Barzal