Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[The Great Weal]

Players won’t ever use that ‘’excuse’’ doesn’t mean it isn’t true. It was true for Caufield even if he doesn’t say it and it’s true for Dach this year too. Being healed to play doesn’t mean you won’t take some time to find your game.

Players have frequently used even less impactful "excuses". New team, less severe injury, time to develop chemistry, lack of confidence/personal reason...etc. Arber Xhekaj himself said that he avoided fighting as much last year because of his injury.

With that in mind, why wouldn't you consider a guy like Suzuki having an "excuse" as well? You may say that Caufield's/Dach's were likely way more extreme but it's highly unlikely that Suzuki's potential one lasts as long and as bad as those guys. To me he looks better than the start of last year where he went on to have the best season by a Habs player in a while. Same thing as the playoffs against the Leafs.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847834210477744261

 

[SlafySZN]

Players have frequently used even less impactful "excuses". New team, less severe injury, time to develop chemistry, lack of confidence/personal reason...etc. Arber Xhekaj himself said that he avoided fighting as much last year because of his injury.

With that in mind, why wouldn't you consider a guy like Suzuki has an "excuse" as well? You may say that Caufield's/Dach's were likely way more extreme but it's highly unlikely that Suzuki's potential one lasts as long and as bad as those guys.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847834210477744261

It’s pretty easy to see he’s sarcastic, of course his surgery is the reason why his shot wasn’t normal. It’s not something an athlete will say, though, they’re hard on themselves.

For Suzuki all i’m gonna say is that it’s okay to say it when he isn’t playing good, he admits it himself.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

Players have frequently used even less impactful "excuses". New team, less severe injury, time to develop chemistry, lack of confidence/personal reason...etc. Arber Xhekaj himself said that he avoided fighting as much last year because of his injury.

With that in mind, why wouldn't you consider a guy like Suzuki having an "excuse" as well? You may say that Caufield's/Dach's were likely way more extreme but it's highly unlikely that Suzuki's potential one lasts as long and as bad as those guys. To me he looks better than the start of last year where he went on to have the best season by a Habs player in a while. Same thing as the playoffs against the Leafs.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847834210477744261

What is the french equivalent of ''why so pissy?''

Awkward exchange between the two.

 

[The Great Weal]

It’s pretty easy to see he’s sarcastic

"Have you had one (shoulder surgery?)"
"No"
"Okay then"

So the sarcasm is easy to see yet Chantal has to chime in to say there's no animosity.

It’s not something an athlete will say, though, they’re hard on themselves.

I gave you a specific example with Xhekaj which you ignored. That's just one of many that are out there.

For Suzuki all i’m gonna say is that it’s okay to say it when he isn’t playing good, he admits it himself.

And the post I replied to (to which you seemingly agreed) says that Suzuki "whining to the media that they want to 'go for it' is not a great look" and how Dach looks visibly frustrated while Suzuki "doesn't look like he's checked in enough to care yet.". That's two contradictory points.

Anyways, don't really see the need for this discussion to go any further. We all want the three of them to be at their best and they have all had their deserved and undeserved criticism at times.

 

[Adriatic]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847834210477744261

I think that's that clown from tva sports that got fired..he tries so hard to sound smart. Our media is so embarrassing.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I am 100% confident Suzuki's worst game with an injury is vastly better than Dach's worst game. Dach is most definitely the worst player on the team at the moment and the linemates excuse is a very bad one. Putting him on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield should have been done way sooner, he's getting killed out there.

The move to Suzuki’s wing helped Slaf last season. it might do the same for Dach.

 

[overlords]

Well the stats, the coaching staff, and my eye test say that Dach is struggling significantly more than Suzuki.

I would be pissed off too if I take the worst and most costly penalties because I keep getting beat. You're making it seem like taking terrible penalties because you're frustrated is a good thing.

The entire narrative this offseason was that Dach would help this team this season tremendously and that he'd easily replicate what Monahan did for us last year. Now the narrative has shifted. For the record, I am excusing this year for Dach but I'm not blaming every issue with him so far because of the injury. Just like last year when Cole was carried a good chunk of the season by Suzuki and Slaf and people here were excusing it because of his shoulder when he himself is not accepting that excuse.

I am 100% confident Suzuki's worst game with an injury is vastly better than Dach's worst game. Dach is most definitely the worst player on the team at the moment and the linemates excuse is a very bad one. Putting him on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield should have been done way sooner, he's getting killed out there.

The stats indicate that the entire top 6 is being caved in at evens and that the only reason Suzi's statline doesn't look like Dach's is because caufield decided to do his best Yusuf Dikec impression. I don't expect either to be this bad throughout the course of the season, I'm not the one in here using 6 games to project a season, though. What HFHabs predicts has little bearing on reality. What HFHabs predicts over a season is even less relevant when we're discussing the first 6 games and a player who spent a year off the ice. I care about what NHL players say in interviews about as much as I value Selanne's evaluation of Janne Lahti. Cole going full napoleon complex does seem to give off a lady doth protest too much sort of vibe, though.

Nobody said that taking penalties was a good thing. That's a straw man. I'm speaking generally of body language and overall perceived effort on the ice. Kirby looks annoyed with himself because he's not executing the way he has in the past. Suzi came into the season looking to coast for the first 10 as he has for the past few years. It's not new for him, it's a tradition. Again, I don't think it's worth using to predict his entire season, it's just that if we're going to flip out over any behavior seen in the first 6 games carrying over through the whole season, the recent cripple 2nd line C underperforming is much less scary than the top line getting destroyed at even strength while carrying the 3 best forwards on the team. It's only that there's no excuse for the the latter to be occurring whatsoever, whereas the former is obvious.

 

[Ozmodiar]

"Have you had one (shoulder surgery?)"
"No"
"Okay then"

So the sarcasm is easy to see yet Chantal has to chime in to say there's no animosity.

That was more “you don’t know WTF you’re talking about” than sarcasm. lol

Caufield cooked this reporter.

We shouldn’t compare it to Dach’s injury. Apples and oranges.

 

[The Great Weal]

The recent cripple 2nd line C underperforming is much less scary than the top line getting destroyed at even strength while carrying the 3 best forwards on the team. It's only that there's no excuse for the the latter to be occurring whatsoever, whereas the former is obvious.

I completely disagree. The 2nd line C doesn't even have a qualified resume as a 2nd line C whereas the top line was one of the biggest threats in the NHL when being put together. Suzuki especially should be the absolute least of our worries, his performance is far less worrisome than Dach's with or without an injury. Should go without saying that Dach's season shouldn't really be worth much, but to pretend that once he's back to NHL pace he'll certainly be fine as the 2C in the long term is far more optimistic. Especially given how he's had question marks before the injury along with the fact that he's been missing games often.

 

[Mrb1p]

He never developed into a top-6 player, in part due to his lack of offensive creativity, and his vision was very questionable. You can blame Therrien for mismanaging Eller, which is fair, but the point was that Eller’s vision was never the main selling points of his game, and that he cannot be compared to Dach.

He was a speedy, puck-possession player. To act like he was a great passer and/or that his vision wasn’t lacking is disingenuous.

Assist to point ratio is also a horrible statistic to make your point. Most players in the NHL have more assists than goals. It’s a corollary of the league giving secondary assists.

His lack of offensive creativity stems from his usage. He grew bad habits after being with Prusts and co for so long.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Caufield keeping Dach in check helping him having fun!

I feel like they like eachother too much.

Not in a sus way. But more like in a complacent way.

I feel like they could use some external pressure.

I miss the days where a new crazy rumor about an abandonned daughter or coke consumption would hit the streets.

Deshaun Watson just got boo'd by Cleveland Browns fans for getting injured.

Montreal has become way too soft.

 

[cphabs]

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure any player not on the 1st line is just trying to keep healthy.

 

[Mrb1p]

Maybe, but I was referring to how Eller is today and during most of his career. Not the what-if scenarios the other poster created. The point simply is that him and Dach are nothing alike.

I was also here during Therrien’s tenure, and I was adamant about wanting Eller to be used with Chucky and Gally after the lockout season. I see there are still some Eller stans in here that jump down your throat if you mention their god.

I stan Eller and I will make a stand for my king until the day I die.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's the system, all lines are doing it on this team, and it's garbage. Dach needs some wingers man, he's playing with 3rd and 4th liners. They need help behind the bench badly , if it wasn't for Cole the team would be hooped.

Nah. Last year our first line had great analytics. This year not so much. I don’t think it’s a systems issue.

It’s really weird how we’ve gotten off to such a bad start though. I expected us to start a lot better. I can understand Dach but the first line doesn’t have the same analytics that it normally does.

 

[Habs]

Nah. Last year our first line had great analytics. This year not so much. I don’t think it’s a systems issue.

It’s really weird how we’ve gotten off to such a bad start though. I expected us to start a lot better. I can understand Dach but the first line doesn’t have the same analytics that it normally does.

The thing is, when a system stops working, you need a coach that knows how and when to change it. We only have one system, teams catch on and we are not hard to shut down. Our first line is not physical at all, it isn't hard to scout this team. It's not panic time or anything, but would be nice to see some other players beside Cole shooting.

 

[Sorinth]

Nah. Last year our first line had great analytics. This year not so much. I don’t think it’s a systems issue.

It’s really weird how we’ve gotten off to such a bad start though. I expected us to start a lot better. I can understand Dach but the first line doesn’t have the same analytics that it normally does.

Analytics are mostly useless with a small sample size. It takes way more then 6 games to get anything of value. Right now one good game can take players from being seemingly terrible numbers to very good.

 

[HuGort]

Let him get reps at wing. Covering that amount of ice after this type of Injury at the center position just seems like a lot.

Dach played his best hockey on the wing in pasr

 

[SlafySZN]

Dach played his best hockey on the wing in pasr

Don’t agree, he played wing and did well and it gave him confidence and played even better at center after he got moved back that year.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Don’t agree, he played wing and did well and it gave him confidence and played even better at center after he got moved back that year.

Exactly, this best stretch came after they took him off that line. That line got him off to a great start in Montreal, but he was dominant in a lot of games at center after that.

 

[morhilane]

Exactly, this best stretch came after they took him off that line. That line got him off to a great start in Montreal, but he was dominant in a lot of games at center after that.

He had 3 players on him every shifts and he still looked dominant carrying Dadonov and Hoffman.

He looks less dominant right now, but he's trying to do what he was doing back then. It's just not working as well. The main issues are timing/decisions making/puck handling and while he looks stronger physically, his balance isn't at the same place yet. But he's actually shooting slightly more.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Analytics are mostly useless with a small sample size. It takes way more then 6 games to get anything of value. Right now one good game can take players from being seemingly terrible numbers to very good.

Sure. But we’re getting early on outplayed. Anyone disagree with that?

I think we’ll get better too but us being dead last in so many categories isn’t a good start.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The move to Suzuki’s wing helped Slaf last season. it might do the same for Dach.

I said a while ago... I feel Dach is a power forward winger more than a center. There are lots of types like this in the NHL and Newhook is one of them as well (So was Domi). A winger who can play center (if required) but ideally, they are on wing.

Growing pains continue.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sure. But we’re getting early on outplayed. Anyone disagree with that?

I think we’ll get better too but us being dead last in so many categories isn’t a good start.

I would say we had a "meh" start to the season. One area I like is the goal differential.. Right now, we are -5 (ranks 23rd). Our .417 goal winning % is also 23rd.

It's early yes but right now, that would be the 9th pick. Heading into this season, I expected us to land in the 10-15 spot for our pick (pre lottery). We are slightly behind that pace so far.

There are many areas to improve on but one area is goals against. That has to be improved and if it's not, we are in the 5-10 range pick this time.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I would say we had a "meh" start to the season. One area I like is the goal differential.. Right now, we are -5 (ranks 23rd). Our .417 goal winning % is also 23rd.

It's early yes but right now, that would be the 9th pick. Heading into this season, I expected us to land in the 10-15 spot for our pick (pre lottery). We are slightly behind that pace so far.

There are many areas to improve on but one area is goals against. That has to be improved and if it's not, we are in the 5-10 range pick this time.

Our goaltending is good and we’ve cored timely goals. But it’s not sustainable.

It’s early so no biggie but the numbers so far are ugly.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Our goaltending is good and we’ve cored timely goals. But it’s not sustainable.

It’s early so no biggie but the numbers so far are ugly.

I think when we look back after this season, we will conclude that it was slightly better than last season. Modest gains here and there. Our roster is still too young.