Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[schwang26]

But we can't have Suzuki starting slow every year. He's the captain, 1c has the highest contract other than Laine. We need his contribution now to win games now.
We need to win now to "keep us in the mix" later on.

I agree. There’s not enough star power on this team to cover for injuries or slumps. I really think they should shuffle the top 6. Suzuki, Dach, Caulfield. Slaf, Kapanen, maybe Armia, Anderson or Heineman. They’ve lost 3 in a row, so it can’t hurt. You aren’t winning many games when only the bottom 6 are playing solid hockey.

 

[The Great Weal]

We must be watching different games because if there's been one saving grace to dach's early season, it's that he's been coming back deep in the d zone and intercepting passes/breaking up plays fairly consistently.

Well the stats, the coaching staff, and my eye test say that Dach is struggling significantly more than Suzuki.

#1 guy (and captain) being our go-to offensive leader and still deciding to take games off to start the year while whining to the media that they want to 'go for it' is not a great look. That entire line is getting buried despite Cole coming out like gangbusters. Nick might have points but he has looked terrible. He looks unwilling to chase the puck or implicate himself physically. Dach looks visibly frustrated, but Suzuki doesn't look like he's checked in enough to care yet.

I would be pissed off too if I take the worst and most costly penalties because I keep getting beat. You're making it seem like taking terrible penalties because you're frustrated is a good thing.

I'm not dragging suzuki because I think he's gonna have a bad year or because I don't like him, I'm just pointing out that any double standard here is going the other way than what you're stating. Having high expectation for a guy who missed an entire year is insane.

The entire narrative this offseason was that Dach would help this team this season tremendously and that he'd easily replicate what Monahan did for us last year. Now the narrative has shifted. For the record, I am excusing this year for Dach but I'm not blaming every issue with him so far because of the injury. Just like last year when Cole was carried a good chunk of the season by Suzuki and Slaf and people here were excusing it because of his shoulder when he himself is not accepting that excuse.

Let's put it this way...cave in Suzi's knee, take him out of the game for a year and then give him armia and newhook as linemates. How good does he look? Worse than he already does, I bet. Yikes.

I am 100% confident Suzuki's worst game with an injury is vastly better than Dach's worst game. Dach is most definitely the worst player on the team at the moment and the linemates excuse is a very bad one. Putting him on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield should have been done way sooner, he's getting killed out there.

 

[SlafySZN]

Well the stats, the coaching staff, and my eye test say that Dach is struggling significantly more than Suzuki.

I would be pissed off too if I take the worst and most costly penalties because I keep getting beat. You're making it seem like taking terrible penalties because you're frustrated is a good thing.

The entire narrative this offseason was that Dach would help this team this season tremendously and that he'd easily replicate what Monahan did for us last year. Now the narrative has shifted. For the record, I am excusing this year for Dach but I'm not blaming every issue with him so far because of the injury. Just like last year when Cole was carried a good chunk of the season by Suzuki and Slaf and people here were excusing it because of his shoulder when he himself is not accepting that excuse.

I am 100% confident Suzuki's worst game with an injury is vastly better than Dach's worst game. Dach is most definitely the worst player on the team at the moment and the linemates excuse is a very bad one. Putting him on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield should have been done way sooner, he's getting killed out there.

Players won’t ever use that ‘’excuse’’ doesn’t mean it isn’t true. It was true for Caufield even if he doesn’t say it and it’s true for Dach this year too. Being healed to play doesn’t mean you won’t take some time to find your game.

 

[The Great Weal]

Players won’t ever use that ‘’excuse’’ doesn’t mean it isn’t true. It was true for Caufield even if he doesn’t say it and it’s true for Dach this year too. Being healed to play doesn’t mean you won’t take some time to find your game.

Players have frequently used even less impactful "excuses". New team, less severe injury, time to develop chemistry, lack of confidence/personal reason...etc. Arber Xhekaj himself said that he avoided fighting as much last year because of his injury.

With that in mind, why wouldn't you consider a guy like Suzuki having an "excuse" as well? You may say that Caufield's/Dach's were likely way more extreme but it's highly unlikely that Suzuki's potential one lasts as long and as bad as those guys. To me he looks better than the start of last year where he went on to have the best season by a Habs player in a while. Same thing as the playoffs against the Leafs.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847834210477744261

 

[SlafySZN]

Players have frequently used even less impactful "excuses". New team, less severe injury, time to develop chemistry, lack of confidence/personal reason...etc. Arber Xhekaj himself said that he avoided fighting as much last year because of his injury.

With that in mind, why wouldn't you consider a guy like Suzuki has an "excuse" as well? You may say that Caufield's/Dach's were likely way more extreme but it's highly unlikely that Suzuki's potential one lasts as long and as bad as those guys.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847834210477744261

It’s pretty easy to see he’s sarcastic, of course his surgery is the reason why his shot wasn’t normal. It’s not something an athlete will say, though, they’re hard on themselves.

For Suzuki all i’m gonna say is that it’s okay to say it when he isn’t playing good, he admits it himself.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

Players have frequently used even less impactful "excuses". New team, less severe injury, time to develop chemistry, lack of confidence/personal reason...etc. Arber Xhekaj himself said that he avoided fighting as much last year because of his injury.

With that in mind, why wouldn't you consider a guy like Suzuki having an "excuse" as well? You may say that Caufield's/Dach's were likely way more extreme but it's highly unlikely that Suzuki's potential one lasts as long and as bad as those guys. To me he looks better than the start of last year where he went on to have the best season by a Habs player in a while. Same thing as the playoffs against the Leafs.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847834210477744261

What is the french equivalent of ''why so pissy?''

Awkward exchange between the two.

 

[The Great Weal]

It’s pretty easy to see he’s sarcastic

"Have you had one (shoulder surgery?)"
"No"
"Okay then"

So the sarcasm is easy to see yet Chantal has to chime in to say there's no animosity.

It’s not something an athlete will say, though, they’re hard on themselves.

I gave you a specific example with Xhekaj which you ignored. That's just one of many that are out there.

For Suzuki all i’m gonna say is that it’s okay to say it when he isn’t playing good, he admits it himself.

And the post I replied to (to which you seemingly agreed) says that Suzuki "whining to the media that they want to 'go for it' is not a great look" and how Dach looks visibly frustrated while Suzuki "doesn't look like he's checked in enough to care yet.". That's two contradictory points.

Anyways, don't really see the need for this discussion to go any further. We all want the three of them to be at their best and they have all had their deserved and undeserved criticism at times.

 

[Adriatic]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1847834210477744261

I think that's that clown from tva sports that got fired..he tries so hard to sound smart. Our media is so embarrassing.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I am 100% confident Suzuki's worst game with an injury is vastly better than Dach's worst game. Dach is most definitely the worst player on the team at the moment and the linemates excuse is a very bad one. Putting him on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield should have been done way sooner, he's getting killed out there.

The move to Suzuki’s wing helped Slaf last season. it might do the same for Dach.

 

[overlords]

Well the stats, the coaching staff, and my eye test say that Dach is struggling significantly more than Suzuki.

I would be pissed off too if I take the worst and most costly penalties because I keep getting beat. You're making it seem like taking terrible penalties because you're frustrated is a good thing.

The entire narrative this offseason was that Dach would help this team this season tremendously and that he'd easily replicate what Monahan did for us last year. Now the narrative has shifted. For the record, I am excusing this year for Dach but I'm not blaming every issue with him so far because of the injury. Just like last year when Cole was carried a good chunk of the season by Suzuki and Slaf and people here were excusing it because of his shoulder when he himself is not accepting that excuse.

I am 100% confident Suzuki's worst game with an injury is vastly better than Dach's worst game. Dach is most definitely the worst player on the team at the moment and the linemates excuse is a very bad one. Putting him on the wing with Suzuki and Caufield should have been done way sooner, he's getting killed out there.

The stats indicate that the entire top 6 is being caved in at evens and that the only reason Suzi's statline doesn't look like Dach's is because caufield decided to do his best Yusuf Dikec impression. I don't expect either to be this bad throughout the course of the season, I'm not the one in here using 6 games to project a season, though. What HFHabs predicts has little bearing on reality. What HFHabs predicts over a season is even less relevant when we're discussing the first 6 games and a player who spent a year off the ice. I care about what NHL players say in interviews about as much as I value Selanne's evaluation of Janne Lahti. Cole going full napoleon complex does seem to give off a lady doth protest too much sort of vibe, though.

Nobody said that taking penalties was a good thing. That's a straw man. I'm speaking generally of body language and overall perceived effort on the ice. Kirby looks annoyed with himself because he's not executing the way he has in the past. Suzi came into the season looking to coast for the first 10 as he has for the past few years. It's not new for him, it's a tradition. Again, I don't think it's worth using to predict his entire season, it's just that if we're going to flip out over any behavior seen in the first 6 games carrying over through the whole season, the recent cripple 2nd line C underperforming is much less scary than the top line getting destroyed at even strength while carrying the 3 best forwards on the team. It's only that there's no excuse for the the latter to be occurring whatsoever, whereas the former is obvious.

 

[Ozmodiar]

"Have you had one (shoulder surgery?)"
"No"
"Okay then"

So the sarcasm is easy to see yet Chantal has to chime in to say there's no animosity.

That was more “you don’t know WTF you’re talking about” than sarcasm. lol

Caufield cooked this reporter.

We shouldn’t compare it to Dach’s injury. Apples and oranges.

 

[The Great Weal]

The recent cripple 2nd line C underperforming is much less scary than the top line getting destroyed at even strength while carrying the 3 best forwards on the team. It's only that there's no excuse for the the latter to be occurring whatsoever, whereas the former is obvious.

I completely disagree. The 2nd line C doesn't even have a qualified resume as a 2nd line C whereas the top line was one of the biggest threats in the NHL when being put together. Suzuki especially should be the absolute least of our worries, his performance is far less worrisome than Dach's with or without an injury. Should go without saying that Dach's season shouldn't really be worth much, but to pretend that once he's back to NHL pace he'll certainly be fine as the 2C in the long term is far more optimistic. Especially given how he's had question marks before the injury along with the fact that he's been missing games often.

 

[Mrb1p]

He never developed into a top-6 player, in part due to his lack of offensive creativity, and his vision was very questionable. You can blame Therrien for mismanaging Eller, which is fair, but the point was that Eller’s vision was never the main selling points of his game, and that he cannot be compared to Dach.

He was a speedy, puck-possession player. To act like he was a great passer and/or that his vision wasn’t lacking is disingenuous.

Assist to point ratio is also a horrible statistic to make your point. Most players in the NHL have more assists than goals. It’s a corollary of the league giving secondary assists.

His lack of offensive creativity stems from his usage. He grew bad habits after being with Prusts and co for so long.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Caufield keeping Dach in check helping him having fun!

I feel like they like eachother too much.

Not in a sus way. But more like in a complacent way.

I feel like they could use some external pressure.

I miss the days where a new crazy rumor about an abandonned daughter or coke consumption would hit the streets.

Deshaun Watson just got boo'd by Cleveland Browns fans for getting injured.

Montreal has become way too soft.

 

[cphabs]

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure any player not on the 1st line is just trying to keep healthy.

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

His lack of offensive creativity stems from his usage. He grew bad habits after being with Prusts and co for so long.

Maybe, but I was referring to how Eller is today and during most of his career. Not the what-if scenarios the other poster created. The point simply is that him and Dach are nothing alike.

I was also here during Therrien’s tenure, and I was adamant about wanting Eller to be used with Chucky and Gally after the lockout season. I see there are still some Eller stans in here that jump down your throat if you mention their god.